String Gauges for Metal

[Guest MoJo]

Firstly let me point out that I'm no wet-behind-the-ear newbie. I have been playing bass for 27 years. Brought up on a diet of Maiden, Rush, Sabbath, Scorpions, Dio etc..etc... Now at an age where I ought to know better, I have been given the opportunity to play in a metal band which includes in it's set covers by Disturbed and Killswitch Engage. Now I believe that Mike D'Antonio of KSE tunes his Ibanez SRX700 to CGCF and John Moyer of Disturbed tunes his 5 string Musicman ACGCF

Have any Metalheads on here used these tunings and if so, what gauges did you use to maintain good string tension? I'm kind of guessing that you'd need a .135" to go down to A, a .120" or .110" for the C, a .095" or .090" for the G, a .075" for the C and a .050" for the F.

I have tried playing the songs on my BEADG strung 5 string but in a song like Stricken by Disturbed it's a damned sight easier to play the main riff on string tuned to open C. I could just tune my B up to a C or for other songs, my E down to a D but it's far from ideal. I'd rather have my bass set up in the new tuning and use my other bass, strung EADG to play the songs that don't require tuning down.

I'd appreciate your comments

[Guest MoJo]

C'mon. You can't all be Stuart Zender wannabes!

[Machines]

If I were downtuning to CGCF i'd definitely use 50-110.. using a 5 string is indeed a pain for this kind of tuning.

[G-bitch]

Rock a phat one dude! (Pun totally intended.)

What are the guits doing? You may find that you won't be using the 'as recorded' tunings as it'd mean that you end up all over the shop depending on what you might be covering. Speak to the guitards and see if they're settling on some kind of happy medium tunings that the singer is happy with in terms of range on the covers.

[Guest MoJo]

The band is playing the songs as recorded. The guitarist has 3 guitars. 1 in std EADGBE tuning, one in drop D and one in drop C. The guitar, as you can imagine, is more sensitive to string tension changes than a bass and so has to be set up in a particular tuning and pretty much left as such. I heard an interview on radio 2 recently (yes, I really am [u]that[/u] old) with the vocalist for the Counterfeit Stones. He says that the guitarists side of the stage looks like a music shop as he has that many guitars all set up in different tunings and he claims that if you're trying to play the song in the wrong tuning that it simply doesn't sound the same and I'm inclined to agree.

[Machines]

Well Drop D only takes 2 seconds to dial in so one bass for that, another for Drop C ?

[cheddatom]

I always play with my 6 string like: A#, C#, G#, C#, F#, B

I just buy the heaviest guage strings I can find. Generally the shops around here are pretty crap and have to make up a set of strings that aren't standard guages. I'm guessing this could be bad for the bass? So I suppose I need the same kind of advice as you, even though standard heavy Elite 5 string sets seems to work fine.

[Guest MoJo]

I've just found a really useful chart here [url="http://www.daddario.com/Resources/JDCDAD/images/tension_chart.pdf"]tension chart[/url] that answers my question.

There's a complicated looking equation that is UW (unit weight) = (T x 386.4) / (2 x L x F)[sup]2[/sup]

Where T = String Tension L = Scale Length and F = Frequency
with a few exceptions, one would normally use between a .105" and a .100" for the low E string. Looking at the chart, the Long scale, nickel wound XLB100 has a tension of 36.5 when tuned to E and the heavier XLB105 has a tension of 40.3. So If we take 40 as our tension figure. I want to replace my lowest string and tune it to C (below standard E). According to the figure on page 5 of the document a low C has a frequency of 32.7Hz.

Putting these figures into our equation gives us

UW (unit weight) = (40 x 386.4) / (2 x 34 x 32.7)[sup]2[/sup] which gives a unit weight figure of approx 0.003126
referring back to the chart, the string nearest to that unit weight is the XLB130 (a .130" string) and to confirm this if one looks across to the column headed C', you'll notice the reading is 38.6, so the formula seems to work. Now for the other strings.....

Edited October 23, 2007 by bassman2790

[Sibob]

The main tuning i use in my band is Drop C Standard, so thats C, F, Bb, Eb.

I use 45-105 gauge, high tension, Newtone strings and get a tension and action similar to a bass tuned to standard.

Although gauge has a little to do with tension, the perception that heavier gauge is necessary for lower tunings isn't precisely true, its more to do with the size of the core of the string. The larger the core itself the more tension you get, giving the potential to have lighter gauges in low tunings. Thats if you can find a string brand that can custom wind thicker cores to the gauge of your choice, like i said, i use Newtones!

Si

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='Sibob' post='78359' date='Oct 23 2007, 04:00 PM']The main tuning i use in my band is Drop C Standard, so thats C, F, Bb, Eb.

I use 45-105 gauge, high tension, Newtone strings and get a tension and action similar to a bass tuned to standard.

Although gauge has a little to do with tension, the perception that heavier gauge is necessary for lower tunings isn't precisely true, its more to do with the size of the core of the string. The larger the core itself the more tension you get, giving the potential to have lighter gauges in low tunings. Thats if you can find a string brand that can custom wind thicker cores to the gauge of your choice, like i said, i use Newtones!

Si[/quote]


Newtones, great I'll check them out.

Mark

[Sibob]

Cool mate!

[url="http://www.newtonestrings.com/"]http://www.newtonestrings.com/[/url]

Give Malcolm a ring, tell him what tuning you're using and what kinda gauge and tension feel you want.
They cost around the same as a set of Elites.

Say Simon Poulton recommended them!

Si

[Guest MoJo]

Just checked out the FSOF MySpace. I love 'The Saviour'. Great work Simon

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='Sibob' post='78367' date='Oct 23 2007, 04:11 PM']Say Simon Poulton recommended them!

Si[/quote]

No probs. Will call him tomorrow

[Sibob]

[quote name='bassman2790' post='78369' date='Oct 23 2007, 04:12 PM']Just checked out the FSOF MySpace. I love 'The Saviour'. Great work Simon[/quote]


Thanks a lot!
Appreciate it!

Si

[Guest MoJo]

Just spoken to Malcolm who handed me over to Neil who said it'd be no problem at all to custom wind a set .105 to .045 on a core that'll let me keep the tension I'm used to when tuned CGCF. Thanks very much Simon, I owe you one.

P.S. I did drop you name into the conversation a couple of times. They knew who you were so hopefully you're now one step closer to that endorsement deal.

Mark

[Sibob]

Glad you found it helpful!

As far as i know Newtone don't give out Endorsements as such, because they're a small 2 or 3 man company. But they make wicked custom strings and great prices and service, so i'm up for shouting them out to people!

Si