Tips for writing bass lines?

[Baseballfan1456]

Basically I ask this because all I play are songs from other bands, and I also wanna show some people that bass is better than they think it is...

Plus, it'd be nice to come up with some cool material

Edited October 23, 2007 by Baseballfan1456

[stewblack]

[quote name='Baseballfan1456' post='78606' date='Oct 24 2007, 12:31 AM']Basically I ask this because all I play are songs from other bands, and I also wanna show some people that bass is better than they think it is...

Plus, it'd be nice to come up with some cool material[/quote]
If you've never written your own basslines before I'd say start simple. Root notes follow the chords. That gives you your skeleton as it were then gradually hang the meat off it.
What a gruesome analogy - sorry.
I guess I'm trying to say walk before you run. You have to get the timing right with your drummer, root notes following the bass drum is a great place to start then just feel your way in, try different notes to lead you into the next root note, either by what sounds good/interesting/weird (depends what you're after) or by your knowledge of which notes go with which chords.
Think about the songs you've learned, find out what the chords are, think "Why did he/she choose to play that with that chord" nick your favourite bits and adapt them.
Have fun - it's the best thing about bass.

[BassBus]

Sometimes if you want to let people know bass is better than they think it is is not to play anything. They may not have noticed you before but they sure will when there is no bass. The best compliment I had at a gig was from another member of the jazz quartet I was playing in who said "I don't really hear the bass when you're playing but when you're not then I notice it's not there".

[Cantdosleepy]

[quote name='stewblack' post='78657' date='Oct 24 2007, 08:50 AM']root notes following the bass drum is a great place to start[/quote]

+1


Also, if it isn't sounding right, turn your amp up. Volume = betterizer!

[wulf]

[quote name='Cantdosleepy' post='78764' date='Oct 24 2007, 12:17 PM']Also, if it isn't sounding right, turn your amp up. Volume = betterizer![/quote]


IMHO, volume = confirmation that bassists are ignorant pluckers. The one thing not to do is turn up. Instead, make sure your lines have some space - play the rests as much as you play the notes to create your groove.

Wulf

ps. ... advice on style depends of course on what style you are playing in.

[stevebasshead]

In the context that you want to write basslines that show bass is more interesting than often given credit for, I'd say put your root notes in your back pocket and keep 'em there as a fallback position. They'll always work but they're also awfully predictable. Don't get me wrong, they have their place and some of my favourite songs have simple root note lines, but for interesting basslines you're better off thinking melodically or rhythmically in the first instance.

Listen carefully to what your drummer and especially guitarist/keyboard player are doing. If there's an ascending chord sequence work out a descending bassline to play - these are quite effective. Leave gaps to accentuate the notes when you do play. Listen for moments in the song when there's nothing much else happening try a simple fill, see if it adds value to the song or detracts from it. If it works, it might stand out as a neat little hook which people will notice.

Listen to records where you've appreciated an interesting bassline and then listen again to what the drums are doing, and then again to what the other instruments are doing. Pick a short passage for this just so you can get a feel for how the bassline works with and around the other parts. This will give you some hands on insight into what's possible.

If nothing better comes to mind you can always play the root notes. By this time, as nothing better has come to mind they probably are the best thing for the song in question. But at least you'll have given it some thought rather than defaulting to it as so many bass players seem to do.

You'll probably get conflicting advice as this thread develops but that's OK - pick through it and find what works for you, you'll have fun at least! And remember, there are fewer rules in music than in most other walks of life - you have more freedom than you think even if you have to convince a few people along the way.

Hope this helps,
Steve.

[stewblack]

[quote name='stevebasshead' post='78843' date='Oct 24 2007, 02:27 PM']do.

You'll probably get conflicting advice as this thread develops but that's OK - pick through it and find what works for you, you'll have fun at least![/quote]

Even though Steve appears to contradict some of what I suggested I wholly endorse what he says in the above post - excellent advice.
By way of explanation I only recommended the root note route (!) as a way in for someone totally new to writing their own lines.

[stevebasshead]

[quote name='stewblack' post='78851' date='Oct 24 2007, 02:32 PM']Even though Steve appears to contradict some of what I suggested I wholly endorse what he says in the above post - excellent advice.
By way of explanation I only recommended the root note route (!) as a way in for someone totally new to writing their own lines.[/quote]


Cheers Stew, and yes, absolutely for a first foray into bassline writing root notes are a great foundation. Bassballfan is gonna get some great advice here from all the experience BC'ers can bring to bear ^_^

[Cantdosleepy]

[quote name='wulf' post='78781' date='Oct 24 2007, 12:41 PM']

IMHO, volume = confirmation that bassists are ignorant pluckers. The one thing not to do is turn up. Instead, make sure your lines have some space - play the rests as much as you play the notes to create your groove.

Wulf

ps. ... advice on style depends of course on what style you are playing in.[/quote]

Sorry, I was joking.

What I meant to say was, buy an aggressive distortion and turn the fuzz up to the max.

More fuzz = betterizer.

[bnt]

A few tricks I had:
- "one drop" - leave out the first note in a 4/4 bar. Instant reggae, mon!
- decide if a song is major or minor: throw in intervals on "off notes", when you're not playing the root with the bass drum. Examples are min/maj 3 (3/4 frets up), min/maj 6 (8/9 semitones up)or their inbersions . Sad songs are generally minor key.

Edited October 24, 2007 by bnt

[The Funk]

[quote name='bnt' post='79011' date='Oct 24 2007, 06:01 PM']- "one drop" - leave out the first note in a 4/4 bar. Instant reggae, mon![/quote]

When you're starting out, best to get that one nice and solid. You can leave it out for effect later. The others in your band will get lost though (unless the drummer's there too). Still surprises me, that.

[Breakfast]

I listen out for fragments of melody from other instruments I can steal and integrate with the bass line without them clashing with what everyone else is doing.

[s_u_y_*]

One thing I do sometimes, especially if I'm finding it difficult to find something complementary to what's going on, is to sing my parts.

Unless you're on the top of your game, I find that it is much easier to create musical parts by singing in your head.

[dub_junkie]

[quote name='s_u_y_*' post='79158' date='Oct 25 2007, 12:20 AM']One thing I do sometimes, especially if I'm finding it difficult to find something complementary to what's going on, is to sing my parts.

Unless you're on the top of your game, I find that it is much easier to create musical parts by singing in your head.[/quote]


totally in agreeament with this. I used to work with a songwriter who had his own studio.He couldnt play bass but he'd sing out the bass ideas he had floating around in his head to me,and we'ed use those as a framwork that I could flesh out..some phrases were like brass parts,others like something a piano would do.everything was almost upside down compared to how I'd ever written a bass line before and in all honesty his "basslines" were something I'd probably never have come up with off the bat.the point is they worked,were very musical and made me realise that I needed to start listening more and that even if I had all the technical ability in the world (didnt then and still dont now),it still was no match for his instrinsically musical soul.
so if its in your head it will out eventually

DJ

Edited October 25, 2007 by dub_junkie

[Baseballfan1456]

Hey guys, sorry it took so long for me to reply, i've been busy and plus the whole time zone thing...Thanks a lot for the advice, it really helps a lot.

Also, I play like rock music and that kind of thing so that might help with your advice...

Btw guys, call me Jay, not Baseballfan >_>

EDIT: Maybe I should've been more specific...i'm not exactly in a band, it's more like just me and my friend (he's a guitarist) and I don't really know any drummers that I can work with...

Edited October 25, 2007 by Baseballfan1456

[Buzz]

Drum machines then, or at least a click track (Can you tell it's 2 am, I've forgotton the bloody name of the clicking thing) if you're lacking a drummer.

[stewblack]

[quote name='Breakfast' post='79154' date='Oct 24 2007, 11:38 PM']I listen out for fragments of melody from other instruments I can steal and integrate with the bass line without them clashing with what everyone else is doing.[/quote]
I did this recently lifting melody of the doo-be-doo vocal part which repeats at the end of the song and anticipating it by a couple of bars - not only does it sound lush but, by getting it in first, in the unlikely event of anyone noticing they might think the vocalist is copying me!!

[stewblack]

[quote name='Baseballfan1456' post='79194' date='Oct 25 2007, 01:51 AM']EDIT: Maybe I should've been more specific...i'm not exactly in a band, it's more like just me and my friend (he's a guitarist) and I don't really know any drummers that I can work with...[/quote]

Jay - even more important to focus on rhythm with the occasional 'flourish' as it were. If there's just you and a guitar then you are the whole rhythm section!! You could do some harmony stuff with your mate, if he's playing a riff ask him to show you it slowly and pick out some of the notes from his riff, that can sound really cool, but only as I say as a flourish, if both of you are off noodling a thousand notes a minute, well it might be fun to do but will sound baffling.
Ah what the hell - if it's fun to do do it.

[stingrayfan]

Put your bass down and hum along to the chords. Then try to work out how to play what you're humming. Makes you think a bit more creatively. Remember the old maxim though: less is more.

[queenofthedepths]

Even when you're just playing root notes or something similar, you can get your guitarist to stop for a bar and just play the same riff on your own - bass runs are immensely cool without having to be complicated/difficult

[nick]

[quote name='stevebasshead' post='78843' date='Oct 24 2007, 02:27 PM']In the context that you want to write basslines that show bass is more interesting than often given credit for, I'd say put your root notes in your back pocket and keep 'em there as a fallback position. They'll always work but they're also awfully predictable. Don't get me wrong, they have their place and some of my favourite songs have simple root note lines, but for interesting basslines you're better off thinking melodically or rhythmically in the first instance.

Listen carefully to what your drummer and especially guitarist/keyboard player are doing. If there's an ascending chord sequence work out a descending bassline to play - these are quite effective. Leave gaps to accentuate the notes when you do play. Listen for moments in the song when there's nothing much else happening try a simple fill, see if it adds value to the song or detracts from it. If it works, it might stand out as a neat little hook which people will notice.

Listen to records where you've appreciated an interesting bassline and then listen again to what the drums are doing, and then again to what the other instruments are doing. Pick a short passage for this just so you can get a feel for how the bassline works with and around the other parts. This will give you some hands on insight into what's possible.

If nothing better comes to mind you can always play the root notes. By this time, as nothing better has come to mind they probably are the best thing for the song in question. But at least you'll have given it some thought rather than defaulting to it as so many bass players seem to do.

You'll probably get conflicting advice as this thread develops but that's OK - pick through it and find what works for you, you'll have fun at least! And remember, there are fewer rules in music than in most other walks of life - you have more freedom than you think even if you have to convince a few people along the way.

Hope this helps,
Steve.[/quote]

Excellent, well thought out advice.
Knowing basic structure of guitar chords can help too.

[stevebasshead]

Also - if you can, record your rehearsals. It's weird how sometimes something that sounds like it works while you're playing it doesn't when you sit back and listen to it after the fact.

Regards,
Steve.