Sightreading music

[Faithless]

So, I was practising my sight-reading at the moment, and, as I have a book of Bach preludes adapted for bass in my pc, it got me thinking - is it worth practising to sight-read classical music?

Ok, it's chords, big intervals and such,but, on the other hand, it's pretty straightfoward - 90% of time there goes groups of 16th notes, and that's it..


So, is it worth to sight-read classical stuff?



Faith..

Edited March 13, 2010 by Faithless

[Buzz]

Yes, because like you've already stated, you're practicing your sight reading (and playing persumably), why would you not take advantage of the material to hand?

[Faithless]

The thing is, I'm not 'concerned' in Classical music, most of the music I play is Jazz, Funk and Pop.. So, in these kinds of music, there's a lot of rhythmic patterns, pauses and such thingies, whereas, at least, in Bach's tunes, it's way different thing, if you know, what I'm saying..

Edited January 16, 2010 by Faithless

[Hot Tub]

I don't think it matters [i]what [/i]you sight-read, so long as you sight-read [i]something[/i]. And practising something outside of your natural comfort zone can only be good; you never know what ideas it might inspire.

[velvetkevorkian]

Its good for getting used to fingering long phrases that move about a lot, and sequencing.

[mrcrow]

its worth reading bass clef

classical or not

as for tricky treble exercises...cant see the justification..unless you take up oboe

[Doddy]

I think it's still worth doing-especially if there are a bunch of ledger lines. Also,even though alot
of the pieces are nearly all 16th notes,many of them are meant to be played rubato,so it'll also help
with your phrasing.
I've looked at some Bach pieces in the past,and would recommend it-it can't hurt,and some
of the lines don't fit comfortably under the fingers,so you'll have to employ different fingerings,so
it's helpful for that too.
Don't worry about not being 'concerned' with the style,it's all good practice. I even practice reading in
treble clef,even though I've never been given a part in treble clef on a gig-other than occasional lead sheets.

[leftybassman392]

+1 to most of the above - notes are notes.

[Faithless]

Some great thoughts here, chaps, thanks

Wattabout treble clef, I also do sight-reading from it, as, in my college jazz ensemble, I got to play standarts' melodies, which are all writen in treble..


And, wattabout my question, I ended up choosing to sightread Bach pieces (1/2 of C major prelude, today - and there are some damn chords with crazy fingerings, as Doddy said!!), and Rich Appleman's (Berklee Bass head) Sightreading book (varies stuff - walking bass, latino, funk, rock and such..)

for everyday sightreading practice, that is..

Edited January 16, 2010 by Faithless

[paul_wolfe]

Some good classical stuff to sight read are Trombone books -because trombone is written in the same clef. If you know any trombonists try asking them if they have Vol1 of Rochut's 'Melodious Etudes For Trombone' for you to borrow.

These are great exercises to sight read - they are based on vocal exercises designed for opera in the 1800s, and so they are a lot more melodic than the more run of the mill bass stuff. Plus there's some odd time signature stuff too. (there's also Volume 2 and 3 - which get progressively harder).

Edited January 19, 2010 by paul_wolfe

[Doddy]

Big + 1 for reading trombone books.

[sdgrsr400]

Another useful challenge it will bring is that you will probably encounter a wider range of key signatures than in much popular music, at least with works from the mid-Classical period onwards. And, of course all the usual associated accidentals for altered notes will appear, particularly in minor keys. The net result is you learn a greater familiarity with the position of notes on the neck, no matter how they are notated, C# Db C## E# Fb F## Cx etc.

[Faithless]

Ok, now here it goes, for you, readers-pros..

First of all, when you practice reading, what about 'all twelve keys' thing, i mean, do you set yourself a goal learning a line in all twelve keys?

Secondly, about the clefs - in an actual reading-gig situation, do you happen to get any treble clef stuff to read, or it's all based on bass clef?


cheers
Faith

[supabock]

[quote name='Faithless' post='715041' date='Jan 16 2010, 05:56 PM']So, I was practising my sight-reading at the moment, and, as I have a book of Bach preludes adapted for bass in my pc, it got me thinking - is it worth practising to sight-read classical music?

Ok, it's chords, big intervals and such,but, on the other hand, it's pretty straightfoward - 90% of time there goes groups of 16th notes, and that's it..


So, is it worth to sight-read classical stuff?



Faith..[/quote]

Read bass and treble clef, and as much of it as you can, read anything if its possible. It will open a whole new world on transcribing solo pieces from different instruments and you will not be limited. You'll also gain a greater understanding of the other instruments you are transcribing

[Doddy]

To answer your first question,if I am practicing reading- which I rarely do anymore-I don't
bother running it through every key.I just play what's on the page.
However,if I find a particular lick or something,I will play it all over the bass,
and in every key.Normally this happens if I'm reading or transcribing a solo-not often
a bassline.

As far as charts on gigs goes,every reading gig I've done has been virtually all in bass
clef. However,occasionally you see treble clef written in the upper register to save writing
lots of ledger lines. Also, if I'm ever given a lead sheet,it is always in treble clef. If you are
comfortable with treble,you can then take the melody if you want-or are asked-to.

[endorka]

As Doddy says, it is rare to get a written bass part in treble clef. Some soloistic stuff for bass is written in treble and tenor clef, but again, this is very rarely called for.

A situation where I have encountered treble clef is when the bass part has obviously been lost, and they've chucked a guitar part in the pad to substitute for it. They'll usually have chord symbols, so it's not really a problem, but it can be useful to be able to read treble clef for sections that are obviously unison parts or pedal notes. It shouldn't happen, but it does :-)

PS: If you want to read "classical" music where the bass part has more rhythmic variation, then it is best to move forward through time to the Romantic or even 20th Century eras. Nielsen, Bartok et. al. will certainly deliver in this regard.

Jennifer

Edited March 13, 2010 by endorka

[gerryk]

Totally agree with all that's been said so far.
If purely practicing sight reading, some of the best pro's on the World session scene who teach/lecture/do seminars etc recommend reading anything and everything just once, at a pace you can reasonably handle, then discard it, so you don't 'learn the part'. Literally anything: they suggest if you know someone in a big band or orchestra, if they can get their hands on parts after shows/concerts that are being binned (you wouldn't believe the stuff they throw out, there's simply too much to archive it all) for any instrument, just put it in front of you and read it in your own clef. The idea is training yourself to recognise the note on the page regardless of how unintuitive it is.
Orchestral and big band stuff is great because they use lots of key signatures us guitar-oriented guys don't tend to come across.
Of course you don't have to discard stuff, just put in in the done pile, and you won't remember it if you pull it out at random in future.
I would suggest knowing your scales very well in all keys through two octaves, not just by shape, but saying the notes in your head as you play them, if you're not already up to speed on this, as this is fundamental to developing a natural ability to sight read in keys with lots of accidentals - I'm currently doing a theatre show with several key changes on a single page, in 5 and 6 sharps/flats, and it's catching me out a bit from lack of familiarity with those keys.
Gerry Bergonzi has a great book written for B flat instruments, but also available in concert in bass clef, that's well worth a look, I'm sure this is it:

[url="http://www.bassplace.com/JA055.html"]http://www.bassplace.com/JA055.html[/url]

Also good is to buy some Real books in bass clef, and read the melodies; this is a great double benefit, as you're examining the song from a melodic rather than harmonic perspective. That, coupled with the chords written in for good measure, gives a much broader understanding of what the bass does and why.

I work with some excellent readers, and the most important thing they stress is some reading every day. Regular practice is the most important thing. One of these guys went on tour with Riverdance some years ago, and stayed on tour with the same show for several years. Some of the time signatures in that music are bizarre, with very fast moving passages, so very demanding reading...until you're doing it every day, and you get to know the parts and don't have to look at the sheet. When he came off tour his reading, according to him, was gone to pot, and he reckons it still hasn't fully recovered to it's best, 10 years later!

Now after all that talk, I'd best do a bit myself, before I'm shown up!

Hope it helps, have fun.
Cheers,

GerryK.

[Bilbo]

Agreed - tha main discipline is the reading of things in real time. Practising reading anything once is like doing the gig with no rehearsal. That's the point. It doesn't matter if it is the sort of thing you play regularly because you are training your mind to DO the reading. As you get better, you find that you read in bigger chunks, eventually a whole bar is read as a certain rhythm instead of each note. Then it is two bars, them four and you are off. Most reading gets to be familiar as most complex bass parts are repetitive funk or latin lines that are two bars long and then repeated. An average big band gig has about 16 bars of difficult reading a night. Reading the rhythms is the hardest part at first but the easiest later on when the accidentals throw you off balance. The classical stuff you are talking about is good because, whilst a lot of it IS straight sixteenths, some of it isn't so you have to remain on your guard and play the lines that are written NOT the lines you think are written. Its the discipline of looking at the paper and playing the instrument at the same time that is the art of sight reading to professional standards (I can't do it. I am a nearly but not quite reader, I can do it but not if it gets too heavy. When you have regular reading gigs, it gets better quitre quickly so the do a bit every day idea is spot on.

[Faithless]

Thanks some fantastic info on this.. Thanks.