Two Feeds To PA - One Effected, One Clean

[Phaedrus]

Hi,

I've been contemplating my live set-up lately.

I've been doing this all along:

Bass -> tuner -> FX -> DI (Hartke VXL) -> amp & PA mixer. This way, both the bass amp & the PA are getting my effected sound.

I'm looking at buying a new amp soon - new band, new start, etc.

The amp I'm probably going to get is a Peavey Tour450. I trust Peavey and it's got pretty much every feature I'm looking for and is definitely reasonably priced.

So basically I'm thinking of running two separate feeds to the PA - one dry and one effected:

Bass -> rack compressor -> amp input. This will allow proper compression of my signal, independent of any effects, fewer pedals on the pedalboard.

Amp tuner send -> rack tuner. No prospect of the tuner deteriorating the signal, fewer pedals on the pedalboard.

Amp FX send -> FX. Your basic FX loop, but with my DI (Hartke VXL) last in the FX chain.

VXL 1/4" DI line output -> amp FX return. This sends an effected signal to the amp.

VXL XLR DI output -> PA. This sends an effected signal to the PA.

Amp XLR DI output -> PA. The Tour 450 DI out is a "buffered, unprocessed signal", so this sends a dry, un-effected signal to the PA.

So I get two bass channels on the PA - one dry, one effected - so FOH can have as much of either as we need.

We can afford the extra channel, so it wouldn't be comprimising anything.

So what do ye think?

Please try to avoid the temptation to dismiss it all as too complicated. I'll have my pedalboard all pre-wired & pre-powered, and I'd have the amp, compressor & tuner all pre-wired & pre-powered in the rack, so I'd only have 4 at-gig connections to make:

1. Bass -> compressor.

2. Amp -> FX/DI.

3. DI -> amp.

4. DI -> PA.


Mark

[crez5150]

Sounds fine to me, just make sure you have no phasing issues with the effected channel

[Phaedrus]

So make sure one of them is a channel that has a polarity switch?


Thanks,

Mark

[tayste_2000]

I use to do it as long as you match the channel volumes and tell the sound guy to just set them the same you shouldn't have to many problems, nothing worse than kicking in a killer fuzz and nothing but plinky plunky clean coming through the PA

[crez5150]

[quote name='Phaedrus' post='718098' date='Jan 19 2010, 05:22 PM']So make sure one of them is a channel that has a polarity switch?


Thanks,

Mark[/quote]

You should be able to do this on the desk.... depending on how sophisticated it is... if not you could phase reverse the cable into the desk... pain in the arse really.

[Phaedrus]

[quote name='tayste_2000' post='719257' date='Jan 20 2010, 05:00 PM']I use to do it as long as you match the channel volumes and tell the sound guy to just set them the same you shouldn't have to many problems, nothing worse than kicking in a killer fuzz and nothing but plinky plunky clean coming through the PA[/quote]

I'll be sure to tell the sound guy - he's me.


[quote name='crez5150' post='719266' date='Jan 20 2010, 05:05 PM']You should be able to do this on the desk.... depending on how sophisticated it is... if not you could phase reverse the cable into the desk... pain in the arse really.[/quote]

Not a particularly sophisticated mixer, but it does have two channels with a polarity switch.


Thanks guys,

Mark

[joegarcia]

Personally I'd send a clean DI to FOH then send your fx to your amp and mic it. Whatever works for you though.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='joegarcia' post='719749' date='Jan 21 2010, 03:54 AM']Personally I'd get more amps and cabs and use them all at once. Whatever works for you though.[/quote]

[Phaedrus]

I noticed this quote from another thread:

[quote name='Silent Fly' post='728884' date='Jan 29 2010, 04:25 PM'][b][i]Unless pedals were designed to work at line level, it is not a good idea running them in the effect loop.[/i][/b]
I would suggest you use your pedalboard between bass and amp. If your bass is passive, I would also recommend a clean buffer at the pedalboard input.[/quote]


Could I experience similar problems with the set-up I'm describing in this thread?


Thanks,

Mark

[Phaedrus]

Think I've got it sorted. Well, the thoery of it anyway . . .



This will keep all my pedals between bass and amp, but still allow me to send separate clean & effected signals to the PA.

The Punch Factory has a balanced XLR DI out (selectable wet or dry), so that can send a clean signal to one PA channel.

The other signal path goes through my other pedals, the last unit being the VXL Bass Attack. This will send an effected signal to both my amp and to the other PA channel.

Any opinions or comments? I know pedal-order is a whole other kettle-of-fish, but feel free to pass comment on that too.


Mark

Edited January 29, 2010 by Phaedrus

[joegarcia]

Looks good to me. Should work nicely I reckon.

[Phaedrus]

Been thinking some more on this . . .

I'd now also like the two separate signals available to my on-stage amp as well as the PA.

If I ditch the idea of the Tour450 and get a stereo power amp instead, I could use two separate speaker cabs to do this.



The first DI (in this pic, I've used a VXL Bass Attack cos it's got two 1/4" outs as well as the XLR DI out, but any DI with this feature set (or a DI with one 1/4" used with a Y-splitter cable or a splitter pedal) would do the job), splits the signal to one channel of the power amp (clean, un-effected), one channel of the PA (clean, un-effected), and on into the FX. The last DI (another Bass Attack) sends another signal to the second channel of the power amp (effected), and a second PA channel (effected).

Elaborate, I know, but if I understand it and am willing to work it, it should achieve what I want (two separate signals (clean & effected) to both the PA and to my on-stage (and rehearsal)) amp rig, shouldn't it?


Mark

[joegarcia]

Depends on the power amp but you might find the DI outputs on the VXL might not be enough to drive them well.