I want the Bruce Foxton Sound !

[jet1968]

You all know what I'm on about . Went to see From the Jam in Dec where he played his 57 reissue most of the time, a couple on the Ric and the Waterstone for 'Start'. According to his website, he's gone Marshall again with a VBA400 this time. He had a killer tone as always........
I would literally kill to have that tone myself and I'm getting close but I'm not getting 'that' sound I so desire.

Interested to know if any players on here think they have a similar tone, and how they went about getting it ?



for the record, my current gear :

Rick 4003
Fender P USA Tony Franklyn signature model

JMI AC100 valve head (reissue)
JMI 2 x 15 16ohm Cab (reissue of the T60 loaded with celestion greenbacks )

[SS73]

The sound I remember was with the 4001, and I think its quite easy to get the bass sound set up straight off, it has that phased mix of both pup's selected ( remember its a 4001 with the .0047 on the treble pup, which some 4003's didn't have), nasal warm with some grit, I'm sure he hasn't gone with the stereo into two amps as this looses that phasing of both pup's selected at once in the mono jack. I could be completely wrong though.

[jet1968]

[quote name='SS73' post='718484' date='Jan 19 2010, 09:54 PM']The sound I remember was with the 4001, and I think its quite easy to get the bass sound set up straight off, it has that phased mix of both pup's selected ( remember its a 4001 with the .0047 on the treble pup, which some 4003's didn't have), nasal warm with some grit, I'm sure he hasn't gone with the stereo into two amps as this looses that phasing of both pup's selected at once in the mono jack. I could be completely wrong though.[/quote]

thanks for the reply

he seems to get a very similar tone whatever he's playing (mainly a P bass these days)

Of course, you HAVE to play with a pick, but is a lot of it down to the amp/cab configuration ?

[tonyf]

Love Bruce Foxton's playing. Grew up listening to The Jam and the intro to "Pretty Green" from the "Sound Affects" album pretty much sums up my ideal bass sound!

In terms of the perfect Foxton bass sound, think the nearest I've heard to it was listening to my mate Woz playing "Going Underground" with a Precision through a Marshall head into a 4x12. Just absolutely nailed it and it was almost arousing! lol

Further evidence? If you look at the pics on the Sound Affects album sleeves, Bruce Foxton seems to have this setup in the studio.

Of course a Ric into an SVT would also be near as damn it but there seems to be something about the Marshall / 4x12 thing that does it for me.

T

[jet1968]

That's great info Tony, I guess I will will probably have to go the Marshall route to nail the sound. My 2 x15's probably don't give me the necessary mid growl required?
Those VBA 400's look beastly though, might have to invest in a weightlifting belt at the same time.......

[tonyf]

[quote name='jet1968' post='718545' date='Jan 19 2010, 11:09 PM']That's great info Tony, I guess I will will probably have to go the Marshall route to nail the sound. My 2 x15's probably don't give me the necessary mid growl required?
Those VBA 400's look beastly though, might have to invest in a weightlifting belt at the same time.......[/quote]

I'd go for a 412 rather than the 2x15 if it were me. The 412's give the signature midrange growl and I think Marshall 412 bass cabs are pretty reasonably priced for such a flexible and loud bit of kit. Have a look at the marshall website.

The head was, I think, a JCM 800 bass head rather than the VBA400. Same shape as the guitar heads. Not that the VBA wouldn't give you the same but driving a 100w or 200w head really hard gives the growly grunty tone.

Maybe have a google for Marshall bass heads. As I said, I think it was the JCM 800 bass head but not sure.

T

[tonyf]

Here's the current 412...
[url="http://www.marshallamps.com/product.asp?productCode=VBC%20Cabinets"]http://www.marshallamps.com/product.asp?pr...=VBC%20Cabinets[/url]

JCM800 bass amps.....
[url="http://www.drtube.com/marshall.htm#JCM800BASS"]http://www.drtube.com/marshall.htm#JCM800BASS[/url]

Ummmmmmm. Can feel a google, an ebay search and a possible "second rig" coming on!

T

[jet1968]

[quote name='tonyf' post='718575' date='Jan 19 2010, 11:42 PM']I'd go for a 412 rather than the 2x15 if it were me. The 412's give the signature midrange growl and I think Marshall 412 bass cabs are pretty reasonably priced for such a flexible and loud bit of kit. Have a look at the marshall website.

The head was, I think, a JCM 800 bass head rather than the VBA400. Same shape as the guitar heads. Not that the VBA wouldn't give you the same but driving a 100w or 200w head really hard gives the growly grunty tone.

Maybe have a google for Marshall bass heads. As I said, I think it was the JCM 800 bass head but not sure.

T[/quote]

Could have been a JCM800 in the old days, but he's definitely using the VBA400 on the current tour. I agree with you about the benefits of cranking the 100w though....probably never get the chance to run the 400 at full tilt!

[bigjohn]

JCM800's nail that sound.

[jet1968]

[quote name='bigjohn' post='718630' date='Jan 20 2010, 12:33 AM']JCM800's nail that sound.[/quote]

Think I might start with the 4x12 cab and try that with my current AC100 (can't be that different to a JCM) and if still not happy, get the Marshall head - at least try one out somewhere first.....

If any guys on here have the marshall setup please post any links to available soundbites or youtube vids, cheers

here's the sound.....

[url="http://www.youtube.com/brucefoxtontv?gl=GB&hl=en-GB#p/u/0/6yD8yJAF5Ho"]http://www.youtube.com/brucefoxtontv?gl=GB...u/0/6yD8yJAF5Ho[/url]


edit : my amp is wired 16 or 8 ohms, only adjustable by taking the back off and moving a jumper(!) and it looks like the Marhalls are 4ohm cabs ? that won't work then ?

Edited January 20, 2010 by jet1968

[markorbit]

[quote name='bigjohn' post='718630' date='Jan 20 2010, 12:33 AM']JCM800's nail that sound.[/quote]


+1. I can vouch for that. I owned one back in the 80s and it was the definitive British valve sound for rock. It had a sweet spot that just punched and growled. Reminded me of Bruce Foxton.

Technique and setup also plays its part - I would recommened big heavy pick like a Gibson and play over the P pickup ([i]slighty [/i]towards the bridge) with the action quite low and the neck straightish.

[basshead56]

For what it´s worth, the Marshall VBA 400 is pretty good at that Jam sound too.
After playing with the 3 way style switch and bass dial, I got a pretty good sound.
Then switched over basses-my siennaburst 78 Precision.
Dialled down the the tone knob on the bass a quarter or so and BAM-That´s Entertainment-perfect replica of the sound.
To make sure it wasn´t a fluke, tried Eton Rifles and In The City-great (though one of them should have been on a Ric I´m sure-but I hate them!lol).
I think its more to do with 4x12 sound than the valve amp tbh.
Still, do not discount the big awkward ba****d that is the beautiful warm sounding VBA 400!

[4 Strings]

Interesting question, Bruce's sound was distinctive in the earlier days. Lots of treble, but then Ricky's do that. You'll also get that from your Precision with nice new Swing Bass strings.

Try this: [url="http://www.thejam.org.uk/equipment.html"]http://www.thejam.org.uk/equipment.html[/url]

Seems Marshalls and 4x12s are the order of the day.

[andy67]

With SLF I'm sure it was an SVT 3pro and 810e.

andy

[jet1968]

[quote name='basshead56' post='720953' date='Jan 22 2010, 11:08 AM']For what it´s worth, the Marshall VBA 400 is pretty good at that Jam sound too.
After playing with the 3 way style switch and bass dial, I got a pretty good sound.
Then switched over basses-my siennaburst 78 Precision.
Dialled down the the tone knob on the bass a quarter or so and BAM-That´s Entertainment-perfect replica of the sound.
To make sure it wasn´t a fluke, tried Eton Rifles and In The City-great (though one of them should have been on a Ric I´m sure-but I hate them!lol).
I think its more to do with 4x12 sound than the valve amp tbh.
Still, do not discount the big awkward ba****d that is the beautiful warm sounding VBA 400![/quote]

I know he's using the VBA400 now as he was playing through one when I saw him live in Dec. Before that he was using Ampeg as noted by the above poster. No matter what gear, he always has the same distinctive sound, so its probably a mixture of Valve Sound + Small Cones (10 or 12") + Pick + Technique

Gonna try and find me a 4x12 cab if I can get one rated at 8ohms as thats all my amp will go down to.....

[tombboy]

Throw him an email and ask him through his official site. He's a very very approachable guy who I've met a couple of times.... the last time when we supported FTJ in December 08.
I'm sure he'd love to give you a heads up. Whilst your doing that, point him in the direction of this site. I remember mentioning it to him at the gig and he seemed very enthusiastic about checking it out. You never know..... he may be lurking!

His sound guy by the way is a chap called Edd Higdon who I'm good friends with (no.... it's NOT how we got the gig!!). He runs a sound production company called CSS Pro or something, based in Poole.

This is us with Bruce after the Dec gig

Edited January 25, 2010 by tombboy

[chriswilliams666]

Hey Guys

Bruce's Bass tech is a personal friend of mine. I spoke to Paul about the gear Bruce was using. If i remember rightly he had 2 Ampeg Heads with an 8x10 when they started with FTJ (Originally The Gift) After touring the Ampegs, they became unreliable. Constantly back at the repairers (Possibly Ampeg UK?) They needed something more reliable so went to Marshall. I believe he tried the VBA, MB and possibly an 800 through various cabs and decided on the VBA400 with two 4x12s. He also tours with a spare VBA400 (just incase)

The only other gear you need is the 57 Vintage P-Bass, Rotosound RS66LD Strings and Rotosound 0.96mm Triangle Picks!





[quote name='tombboy' post='724666' date='Jan 25 2010, 10:53 PM']Throw him an email and ask him through his official site. He's a very very approachable guy who I've met a couple of times.... the last time when we supported FTJ in December 08.
I'm sure he'd love to give you a heads up. Whilst your doing that, point him in the direction of this site. I remember mentioning it to him at the gig and he seemed very enthusiastic about checking it out. You never know..... he may be lurking!

His sound guy by the way is a chap called Edd Higdon who I'm good friends with (no.... it's NOT how we got the gig!!). He runs a sound production company called CSS Pro or something, based in Poole.

This is us with Bruce after the Dec gig

[/quote]

[tombboy]

[quote name='chriswilliams666' post='725893' date='Jan 27 2010, 12:23 AM']Hey Guys

Bruce's Bass tech is a personal friend of mine. I spoke to Paul about the gear Bruce was using. If i remember rightly he had 2 Ampeg Heads with an 8x10 when they started with FTJ (Originally The Gift) After touring the Ampegs, they became unreliable. Constantly back at the repairers (Possibly Ampeg UK?) They needed something more reliable so went to Marshall. I believe he tried the VBA, MB and possibly an 800 through various cabs and decided on the VBA400 with two 4x12s. He also tours with a spare VBA400 (just incase)

The only other gear you need is the 57 Vintage P-Bass, Rotosound RS66LD Strings and Rotosound 0.96mm Triangle Picks![/quote]
When I mentioned Edd, I mean't the FOH engineer. My mistake.
Is Paul the short (in height) dark shoulder length haired fella who looks like he smoked a heavy spliff in the 70's and has only just come back round?

[jet1968]

[quote name='chriswilliams666' post='725893' date='Jan 26 2010, 11:23 PM']Hey Guys

Bruce's Bass tech is a personal friend of mine. I spoke to Paul about the gear Bruce was using. If i remember rightly he had 2 Ampeg Heads with an 8x10 when they started with FTJ (Originally The Gift) After touring the Ampegs, they became unreliable. Constantly back at the repairers (Possibly Ampeg UK?) They needed something more reliable so went to Marshall. I believe he tried the VBA, MB and possibly an 800 through various cabs and decided on the VBA400 with two 4x12s. He also tours with a spare VBA400 (just incase)

The only other gear you need is the 57 Vintage P-Bass, Rotosound RS66LD Strings and Rotosound 0.96mm Triangle Picks![/quote]

Thanks for the info Chris, any idea what gauge strings Bruce is using?

[Paul_C]

[quote name='jet1968' post='726084' date='Jan 27 2010, 09:53 AM']Thanks for the info Chris, any idea what gauge strings Bruce is using?[/quote]

Rotosound RS66LD = 45-105 stainless

[jet1968]

[quote name='Paul_C' post='726147' date='Jan 27 2010, 11:00 AM']Rotosound RS66LD = 45-105 stainless[/quote]

Cool, thanks

[jet1968]

much improved sound last weekend......

the strings made a BIG difference...was already using rotos (nickel) but switching to the stainless ones has helped me get closer.

Used my AC100 valve amp with a 1x15 Hiwatt clone cab that has a celestion BL400 driver and it was clear, deep and punchy with a good bit of growl from the new strings. My only thought was would I get more of that 'clunky' Foxton sound with 4x12 ?
I'd love the Marshall VBC412 but it seems its a 4ohm cab and my amp only goes down to 8ohms

[basshead56]

[quote name='jet1968' post='732701' date='Feb 2 2010, 11:23 AM']much improved sound last weekend......

the strings made a BIG difference...was already using rotos (nickel) but switching to the stainless ones has helped me get closer.

Used my AC100 valve amp with a 1x15 Hiwatt clone cab that has a celestion BL400 driver and it was clear, deep and punchy with a good bit of growl from the new strings. My only thought was would I get more of that 'clunky' Foxton sound with 4x12 ?
I'd love the Marshall VBC412 but it seems its a 4ohm cab and my amp only goes down to 8ohms[/quote]


I think the JCM Bass 4x12 is an 8ohm cab.
Check ebay

[jet1968]

[quote name='basshead56' post='732705' date='Feb 2 2010, 11:27 AM']I think the JCM Bass 4x12 is an 8ohm cab.
Check ebay [/quote]

I'd still like to try the VBA / VBC combination but can;t find a Marshall dealer in my area (Leeds) Anyone know where the nearest stockist is ?

(phoned Musicground in Leeds and they said they stopped selling Marshall bass gear 'cos it was sh*t' - then tried to sell me a Hiwatt rig! presumably they were referring to the lower end Marshall stuff?)

[chriswilliams666]

Yes thats correct. RS66LD 45-105, not sure what was used on the Waterstone bass. But definately Rotos on his Precisions.



[quote name='jet1968' post='726084' date='Jan 27 2010, 09:53 AM']Thanks for the info Chris, any idea what gauge strings Bruce is using?[/quote]