EUB dilemma..

[Faithless]

So, I've bought a nice EUB a few months ago, just for curiosity, as I've never played such a thing - fretless, different approach, and stuff..

But, actually, I'm not planning (and have never thought of it) to specialize in it (EUB/DB)..

It's all fun, but as my passion is electric bass, and, especially, as now I have fretless electric made for me, and I have a hell lot of other things to do in music, like piano, rhythm studies, bass,transcription work, and such..
and I'm mainly concerned in jazz music (sight-reading, phrasing), I thought, maybe it would be better to spend my 'double bass time' on such instrument like trumpet, or saxophone..


What do you, guys, think, is there any reason, why I shouldn't abandon double (EUB) bass?


Cheers,
Faith

[franzbassist]

[quote name='Faithless' post='718929' date='Jan 20 2010, 01:05 PM']So, I've bought a nice EUB a few months ago, just for curiosity, as I've never played such a thing - fretless, different approach, and stuff..

But, actually, I'm not planning (and have never thought of it) to specialize in it (EUB/DB)..

It's all fun, but as my passion is electric bass, and, especially, as now I have fretless electric made for me, and I have a hell lot of other things to do in music, like piano, rhythm studies, bass,transcription work, and such..
and I'm mainly concerned in jazz music (sight-reading, phrasing), I thought, maybe it would be better to spend my 'double bass time' on such instrument like trumpet, or saxophone..

What do you, guys, think, is there any reason, why I shouldn't abandon double (EUB) bass?

Cheers,
Faith[/quote]

If it expands your musical voice then keep it.

Cheers

Gareth

Edited January 20, 2010 by walbassist

[Bilbo]

I say stick with it.

If you are liking jazz now, you will probably find that, as you grow older, a lot of the music you play on electric bass will get more and more tired and you will look to jazz to get the buzz that got you interested in playing in the first place. The double bass is de rigeur for jazz whether we like it or not. The gigs available to you as a double bass player will not be there if you stick to electric only. You are still young and think everything is wonderful but you will find, as you get older, that some of the music that excites now lose its attraction. The double bass is a specialism that will bear fruit for you. The horns are a good idea but can you get as good as you need to be on what are very different instruments. As I said, for my money stick to the upright otherwise you will spend your whole life wishing you had.

[Faithless]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='718963' date='Jan 20 2010, 03:30 PM']I say stick with it.
The horns are a good idea but can you get as good as you need to be on what are very different instruments.[/quote]


I dig, what you're saying, Rob..
Wattabout horns, if I understand correctly, then I gotta say, it's not about, how good I'd be on any of those, it's just about practise/experience.

If I'd take a horn, it's clear, that I won't be going for a gig with it I'd take it for reading, phrasing (breathing) purposes.

BTW, I got this 'horn idea' from one of my faves, Janek Gwizdala - guy is a monster reader, he now even practises reading horn parts on bass (when you need to transpose on the spot), also a wonderful improviser.
He took a year or a few on horns, just for those purposes, I mentioned.

Edited January 20, 2010 by Faithless

[Bilbo]

I can see merit in that idea but I would also advocate for the piano. Lots of the greats were credible pianists. Charles Mingus did a solo piano LP. Jaco composed on piano. So does Pat Metheny, believe it or not. Jack DeJohnette, Chris Potter, they're all piano players. Playing a horn can show you something but reading charts that are a whole step out is not so hard on a bass; its just a mental trick to convince your hads they are two or three frets from where they are (depending on whether the horn chart is in Bb or Eb. Fundamentally, however, that one strikes me as a pretty useless party trick!!

Your main need re: horns is as a composer/arranger. All you need to do is study the orchestration pedagogy: it tells you what the ranges of instruments are and how to write out the charts etc. Can't see that you actually need to be able to PLAY everything!! I use Samuel Adler's Orchestration and Bill Russo's books. My argument is that the double bass will get you work when he electric won't. Spending time on that will pay for itself.

Still, what do I know. Janek is a monster who could polay me into the ground (although, ironically, his horn writing is, if I may venture an opinion, a bit clumpy)

I still say stick with the upright.

[oldslapper]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='719001' date='Jan 20 2010, 01:50 PM']I can see merit in that idea but I would also advocate for the piano. Lots of the greats were credible pianists. Charles Mingus did a solo piano LP. Jaco composed on piano. So does Pat Metheny, believe it or not. Jack DeJohnette, Chris Potter, they're all piano players. Playing a horn can show you something but reading charts that are a whole step out is not so hard on a bass; its just a mental trick to convince your hads they are two or three frets from where they are (depending on whether the horn chart is in Bb or Eb. Fundamentally, however, that one strikes me as a pretty useless party trick!!

Your main need re: horns is as a composer/arranger. All you need to do is study the orchestration pedagogy: it tells you what the ranges of instruments are and how to write out the charts etc. Can't see that you actually need to be able to PLAY everything!! I use Samuel Adler's Orchestration and Bill Russo's books. My argument is that the double bass will get you work when he electric won't. Spending time on that will pay for itself.

Still, what do I know. Janek is a monster who could polay me into the ground (although, ironically, his horn writing is, if I may venture an opinion, a bit clumpy)

I still say stick with the upright.[/quote]

+ 1 piano, and sticking with the upright......horn schmorn .........only joking of course. My son is a sax player, but their seems to be a lot of them around. However, not so many DB players, especially good "readers". Again, what do I know, other than I'm a recent convert to upright and playing Jazz, and it has reignited my passion for playing.
Sounds like you'll be an excellent student of whatever you choose though...best wishes.

[Faithless]

I may not have clearly outlined this, but I'm already studying piano among other things, and I'm doing it quite actively..

Yet, I've been taught classical piano in music school, whereas jazz piano is a brand new thing to me..

[Doddy]

[quote name='Faithless' post='718981' date='Jan 20 2010, 01:39 PM']BTW, I got this 'horn idea' from one of my faves, Janek Gwizdala - guy is a monster reader, he now even practises reading horn parts on bass (when you need to transpose on the spot), also a wonderful improviser.
He took a year or a few on horns, just for those purposes, I mentioned.[/quote]

Janek also played upright for a very short while but gave up on it so that he could give his attention to the electric
bass.

I love playing upright-and get more work because of it-but it requires dedication and should really be treated as a separate instrument to the electric.
If you have doubts,or just are not 'feeling it' maybe it's not for you. If you took up a horn,you may feel the same way.
It's really about what you want out of it-don't play it if you think you 'should' be playing it,play it because you 'want' to and
are willing to put in the practise.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='Doddy' post='719175' date='Jan 20 2010, 04:04 PM']don't play it if you think you 'should' be playing it, play it because you 'want' to[/quote]

Wonderfully simple and absolutely true!

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='Faithless' post='718981' date='Jan 20 2010, 01:39 PM']If I'd take a horn, it's clear, that I won't be going for a gig with it I'd take it for reading, phrasing (breathing) purposes.[/quote]
As someone who used to play a horn of sorts (euphonium ), and as someone who's done a lot of singing, can I just ask: why not just [b]sing[/b] horn lines to develop the phrasing and breathing stuff? I always used to phrase on the euphonium by thinking of how I'd sing the line, and that's what I do on bass as well. IME, the rate of air leaving the lungs is roughly the same when singing as when playing brass (dunno about saxes).

Singing: it's a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a horn, you can practise anywhere and you don't have to learn saxophone fingerings.

[Faithless]

[quote name='Doddy' post='719175' date='Jan 20 2010, 06:04 PM']If you have doubts,or just are not 'feeling it' maybe it's not for you. If you took up a horn,you may feel the same way.
It's really about what you want out of it-don't play it if you think you 'should' be playing it,play it because you 'want' to and
are willing to put in the practise.[/quote]

The thing is, I [i]like [/i]playing it, but, what puts me down, and gets me in doubt, is that I'm not practising it a lot, as I prefer electric, and it would take me years, if I'd like to gig as a DB'er..

In other words, I think, in my case, with 20 minutes a day DB practice, I will hardly be able to call myself a d[i]ouble bass player[/i], well, I wouldn't dare to do so...

Even more, there are hardly any jazz gigs here, at us, so, playing DB for getting more gigs would only work, if I'd move to other country, like Poland/Netherlands or something like that.. (and I'm actually planning to do so in future..)

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='719232' date='Jan 20 2010, 06:40 PM']As someone who used to play a horn of sorts (euphonium ), and as someone who's done a lot of singing, can I just ask: why not just [b]sing[/b] horn lines to develop the phrasing and breathing stuff? I always used to phrase on the euphonium by thinking of how I'd sing the line, and that's what I do on bass as well. IME, the rate of air leaving the lungs is roughly the same when singing as when playing brass (dunno about saxes).

Singing: it's a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a horn, you can practise anywhere and you don't have to learn saxophone fingerings.[/quote]

Yep, I'm already doing singing on practically everything I practice, but, I thought, maybe a horn could give me some different exp on phrasing and such..

Edited January 20, 2010 by Faithless

[Bilbo]

[quote name='Faithless' post='719350' date='Jan 20 2010, 05:56 PM']The thing is, I [i]like [/i]playing it, but, what puts me down, and gets me in doubt, is that I'm not practising it a lot, as I prefer electric, and it would take me years, if I'd like to gig as a DB'er..[/quote]

You sound like me 15 years ago. I regret the wasted time since and hadn't talked myself out of it. Stay with it!!!! You need to drop this idea that you have to practice the bass guitar more to learn music. If you spend time on the double bass, you are still learning music and playing and creating lines and listening and expressing yourself. These two instruments are functionally very similar. Time spent on the double bass is NOT time spent away from the electric. That is a justification for not doing the work (I know its hard, I am right in there with you and am about to start a hours db practice as soon as I finish typing). But its a great, great instrument.

[Faithless]

Can't agree with you more, Rob..

Thanks.

[ironside1966]

When you take away your technique you have to slow down and think what you are playing this will help a lot on E bass and what a great opportunity to improve you reading also.