A real let down :(

[eezer rudun]

Unfortunately I am the bearer of bad news as I bought a stingray 5 from Kevin (kinda foolishly) trusting that the bass was functioning correctly.

Having later proudly taken it to show a friend who knows stingrays very well he pointed out that it was sounding terrible on two of the three pickup settings (compared with what it should sound like..) and needed attention.

This was a costly and timely process which resulted in the discovery of sellotaped wiring connections, plus cables not soldered on at all and all pickup wires soldered to the wrong connections...

Kevin described this problem as having "developed"....I've never come across wires that have the ability to re-solder themselves voluntarily but hey

[Beedster]

[quote name='eezer rudun' post='719981' date='Jan 21 2010, 11:55 AM']Unfortunately I am the bearer of bad news as I bought a stingray 5 from Kevin (kinda foolishly) trusting that the bass was functioning correctly.

Having later proudly taken it to show a friend who knows stingrays very well he pointed out that it was sounding terrible on two of the three pickup settings (compared with what it should sound like..) and needed attention.

This was a costly and timely process which resulted in the discovery of sellotaped wiring connections, plus cables not soldered on at all and all pickup wires soldered to the wrong connections...

Kevin described this problem as having "developed"....I've never come across wires that have the ability to re-solder themselves voluntarily but hey [/quote]

Who is Kevin (what's his username on here)?

[wateroftyne]

Who's Kevin?

[Beedster]

OK, just worked out who Kevin is. Have you discussed the issue with him, sought his views or tried to negotiate a compromise? If so, perhaps give us the whole story - if you're leaving negative feedback it's really your responsibility to be a little more precise. For example, is it possible he bought the bass and never took off the control plate and was unaware of the cause of the 'developing' problem, or did he mention anything to you about it ahead of the sale etc?

Chris

[Golchen]

Sometimes things like this happen. I bought a guitar here a couple of years ago in 'very good condition', but in actual fact the frets were the worst I have ever seen on any instrument! Someone had used a block and flattened them all TOTALLY over the middle frets, leaving virtually nothing for a re-crown even. The guy genuinely didn’t realise that it was in that condition though.

I’ve known a lot of musicians who wouldn’t dream of taking a scratchplate off.

[eezer rudun]

[quote name='Golchen' post='720006' date='Jan 21 2010, 12:20 PM']Sometimes things like this happen. I bought a guitar here a couple of years ago in 'very good condition', but in actual fact the frets were the worst I have ever seen on any instrument! Someone had used a block and flattened them all TOTALLY over the middle frets, leaving virtually nothing for a re-crown even. The guy genuinely didn’t realise that it was in that condition though.

I’ve known a lot of musicians who wouldn’t dream of taking a scratchplate off.[/quote]

My problem with this sale was that I was told originally that he had used the bass himself prior to the sale of it and just wanted a change.

I therefore trusted his word that the bass was in full working order.

I later got the bass checked out only to discover that two of the pickup selections were not working correctly and having not been familiar with stingray's and therefore wouldn't have realised this whilst testing the bass at kevin's house.

Having found the problem I then discussed this with Kevin who then informed me that he'd only had the bass in his possesion for 24 hours so hadn't had time to play it properly, which was a complete change of story..

I decided to leave feedback not out of malice but because i feel that it is the correct thing to do under the circumstances

This was my first experience buying on basschat and it's been rather dissapointing but i'm sure that other people have had good experience's buying and selling with kevin, but mine wasn't.

[Beedster]

I can imagine it's disapointing, but having just read the original For Sale listing I would have read between the lines and stayed away - he makes it pretty clear he's only had it a very short time and isn't at all sure about it.

EDIT

Apologies, that wasn't supposed to sound as hostile as it did, but I do think that the listing it quite clear about how long he'd had it before he sold it, and (unless of course he's edited it since), on that basis I would have been very specific in asking why he was letting such a new bass go?

As was pointed out above, these things happen. No doubt he'll respond here and you'll resolve it between yourselves, BC is generally pretty good like that

C

Edited January 21, 2010 by Beedster

[Kiwi]

I'd suggest people have the right to buy in good faith....anywhere, not just on basschat. Hope you manage to sort it out Eezer, not a very pleasant first experience for you.

[Pete Academy]

I think I need to come in on this thread.

The OP'er is a good mate of mine. He asked me if I knew of any Stingray 5's going. I told him they cropped up on BassChat quite often, and that I would look out for one. Kev's came up for sale and I thought it was perfect - natural finish (always more money at retail), great condition, great price, and a JD setup to boot.

My mate contacted Kev and went down to his house to collect. He's a player but knows nothing about the workings of the instruments he plays. He'd never owned a Stingray 5 before. I asked him if he'd bring it to me straight after the purchase, so I could check it out. He got stuck in traffic and couldn't do this. He's a busy man, so it was a month before I finally got to look at the bass. I immediately noticed the pickup wasn't working correctly.

I contacted Kev and told him about this. He was adamant he knew nothing about the fault. Fair enough. The rest is between my friend and Kev.

But IMO, if it was me that sold the bass, and regardless of the timespan between the actual sale and the buyer discovering the fault, I would offer to pay for the repair, or at least part of it.

It's called 'goodwill'.

[robocorpse]

[quote name='eezer rudun' post='719981' date='Jan 21 2010, 11:55 AM']Unfortunately I am the bearer of bad news as I bought a stingray 5 from Kevin (kinda foolishly) trusting that the bass was functioning correctly.

Having later proudly taken it to show a friend who knows stingrays very well he pointed out that it was sounding terrible on two of the three pickup settings (compared with what it should sound like..) and needed attention.

This was a costly and timely process which resulted in the discovery of sellotaped wiring connections, plus cables not soldered on at all and all pickup wires soldered to the wrong connections...

Kevin described this problem as having "developed"....I've never come across wires that have the ability to re-solder themselves voluntarily but hey [/quote]

"Lowfer" advertised it here on October 25, and presumably sold it to "6stringbassist".
"6stringbassist" (Kevin) advertised it on Nov 19th, mentioning the plate was being changed by JD, then posted the bass was "SOLD" on 28 November, so he had it at least 2 weeks.
The way I see it is unless Kevin did the dodgy wiring himself, then the fault may partially lie with Lowfer (JD wouldn't have done that). The fault could easily "develop" if the wiring is sellotaped instead of soldered. The old advert for the bass mentions John Diggins changing the plate while in Kevins ownership, so I am surprised this wasnt brought up in conversation with Kevin and JD, so I think Kevin knew all along, and just let it go as is. Somethings wrong here, JD wouldn't have let a bass out like that without telling the owner, and/or offering to mend the wiring. Rewiring a Stingray aint exactly rocket science...

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='robocorpse' post='720413' date='Jan 21 2010, 07:12 PM']"Lowfer" advertised it here on October 25, and presumably sold it to "6stringbassist".
"6stringbassist" (Kevin) advertised it on Nov 19th, mentioning the plate was being changed by JD, then posted the bass was "SOLD" on 28 November, so he had it at least 2 weeks.
The way I see it is unless Kevin did the dodgy wiring himself, then the fault may partially lie with Lowfer (JD wouldn't have done that). The fault could easily "develop" if the wiring is sellotaped instead of soldered. The old advert for the bass mentions John Diggins changing the plate while in Kevins ownership, so I am surprised this wasnt brought up in conversation with Kevin and JD, so I think Kevin knew all along, and just let it go as is. Somethings wrong here, JD wouldn't have let a bass out like that without telling the owner, and/or offering to mend the wiring. Rewiring a Stingray aint exactly rocket science...[/quote]

I contacted JD and he said he noticed nothing. But saying that, if he only set up the bass he might not have plugged it in.

Sorry to say, but I think something is well dodgy here. I've seen photos of the wiring and it's an absolute mess.

[Pete Academy]

Somebody along the line knew this bass was at fault.

Enough said.

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='robocorpse' post='720413' date='Jan 21 2010, 07:12 PM']"Lowfer" advertised it here on October 25, and presumably sold it to "6stringbassist".
"6stringbassist" (Kevin) advertised it on Nov 19th, mentioning the plate was being changed by JD, then posted the bass was "SOLD" on 28 November, so he had it at least 2 weeks.
The way I see it is unless Kevin did the dodgy wiring himself, then the fault may partially lie with Lowfer (JD wouldn't have done that). The fault could easily "develop" if the wiring is sellotaped instead of soldered. The old advert for the bass mentions John Diggins changing the plate while in Kevins ownership, so I am surprised this wasnt brought up in conversation with Kevin and JD, so I think Kevin knew all along, and just let it go as is. Somethings wrong here, JD wouldn't have let a bass out like that without telling the owner, and/or offering to mend the wiring. Rewiring a Stingray aint exactly rocket science...[/quote]

I appreciate your post.

[6stringbassist]

[quote name='robocorpse' post='720413' date='Jan 21 2010, 07:12 PM']"Lowfer" advertised it here on October 25, and presumably sold it to "6stringbassist".
"6stringbassist" (Kevin) advertised it on Nov 19th, mentioning the plate was being changed by JD, then posted the bass was "SOLD" on 28 November, so he had it at least 2 weeks.
The way I see it is unless Kevin did the dodgy wiring himself, then the fault may partially lie with Lowfer (JD wouldn't have done that). The fault could easily "develop" if the wiring is sellotaped instead of soldered. The old advert for the bass mentions John Diggins changing the plate while in Kevins ownership, so I am surprised this wasnt brought up in conversation with Kevin and JD, so I think Kevin knew all along, and just let it go as is. Somethings wrong here, JD wouldn't have let a bass out like that without telling the owner, and/or offering to mend the wiring. Rewiring a Stingray aint exactly rocket science...[/quote]

I wasn't going to reply to this. I'm of the opinion that what happened was between me and Scott.

Seeing this has made me change my mind however. I 'owned' the bass for two weeks. It spent those two weeks at John Diggins workshop, he will confirm this.

It was taken to him the day after I bought it, I got it back from him the evening before I sold it. It was actually in my possession for about 24 hours. I didn't get home from collecting it until about 11 o'clock, and I had a gig on the evening that I collected it from John Diggins.

If I was aware of the fault I would have had John fix it. It was taken to him to have a new scratchplate fitted and to have the fretboard cleaned and re-finished. He had the scratchplate off and didn't see anything !

If I was aware of the fault would I have asked that people came around to try it. I'm sure I remember stating in the advert that personal collection was preffered !

It took Scott a month to contact me to say it was faulty, he was busy. Surely he could have spent a few minutes to email or phone me.

He tried the bass in my home using his own amplifier. I was in London at the time but my Dad states that Scott was 'over the moon' with the bass. Surely is the bass sounds as horrible as is being said, then he'd have noticed it. I mean you don't have to know how something works to know that it's faulty. He had my mobile number so he could have contacted me when I was in London.

I bought the bass on a whim. The day after I'd bought it I noticed a Zon Sonus 6 sstring bass for sale on here. I've wanted a Zon for years. If I'd seen the Zon first then I wouldn't have bought the Stingray. I decided to sell the Stingray to pay for the Zon.

I have never and will never sell anything that I know to be faulty.

Edited January 21, 2010 by 6stringbassist

[robocorpse]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='720422' date='Jan 21 2010, 07:17 PM']I contacted JD and he said he noticed nothing. But saying that, if he only set up the bass he might not have plugged it in.
Sorry to say, but I think something is well dodgy here. I've seen photos of the wiring and it's an absolute mess.[/quote]

"Kevin" said in the original FS post that JD was replacing the scratchplate.
Bearing in mind the plate on the Stingray 5 holds all the electrics (and they have to be removed to change it), thats about as close to the wiring as you can get, so it MUST have been noticed, or done afterwards. And if so, why?

Heres a quote from Kevins original FS post...

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='659774' date='Nov 19 2009, 11:42 PM']The bass is currently with John Diggins being set up, I get it back sometime next week. He's also fitting a new black pearl pickguard to it.[/quote]

[6stringbassist]

[quote name='robocorpse' post='720443' date='Jan 21 2010, 07:38 PM']"Kevin" said in the original FS post that JD was replacing the scratchplate.
Bearing in mind the plate on the Stingray 5 holds all the electrics (and they have to be removed to change it), thats about as close to the wiring as you can get, so it MUST have been noticed, or done afterwards. And if so, why?

Heres a quote from Kevins original FS post...[/quote]

I'm sure that John would have noticed it. That's why I didn't offer to pay towards the repairs. That and the fact that it took a month to contact me.

[6stringbassist]

I have to go out to a gig now. So I'll just let you all carry on. Please see my other genuine feedback on here, on Talkbass and on Ebay (modulusquantum6).

[Pete Academy]

Scott was 'over the moon' because overtly the bass was great. He knows nothing about the workings of a Stingray 5, much in the same way that I know f*ck all about how my car works.

The reason I'm involved with this thread is that I was responsible for recommending the bass to Scott. He's busy because he's a record producer/songwriter and didn't get chance to use the bass.

I don't really want to get involved with this, but I've seen the wiring photos, and they are disgusting. Somebody along the line MUST have known about this.

[nottswarwick]

on another note, and obviously this is nowt to do with me, but it is worth saying (I think anyway) that wherever the "fault" (for want of a better word) lies, the bass was advertised for £700. I do not know the actual sale price, but this is a great price for a SR5. My tech could rewire the bass for £50 tops, so once done I would be totally satisfied that all is well, and have spent only £750.

I bought a Tokai Loverock 2 guitar on ebay last year, and it had dodgy pots. I took it to my tech, spent £70, new pots, orange drops, totally rewired. Total expenditure still a great deal. I am not saying that things should not work when you buy them, but I tend to take all my stuff to my tech to fiddle with on purchase anyway.

Like I say, nowt to do with me, but that would be where I would be coming from.

If the parties concerned wish me to remove this I will, but I thought it might lend a different perspective.

Chris

[Shockwave]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='720445' date='Jan 21 2010, 07:41 PM']I'm sure that John would have noticed it. That's why I didn't offer to pay towards the repairs. That and the fact that it took a month to contact me.[/quote]

Honestly, if i were replacing a scratchplate and thats all that i was being asked to do, i wouldnt have noticed anything wrong with the electronics on the assumption there were no wires dangling free. John is not to blame here. Either way, a good will payment towards repairs would be a grand idea either from you or the person you bought it from.

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='nottswarwick' post='720453' date='Jan 21 2010, 07:50 PM']on another note, and obviously this is nowt to do with me, but it is worth saying (I think anyway) that wherever the "fault" (for want of a better word) lies, the bass was advertised for £700. I do not know the actual sale price, but this is a great price for a SR5. My tech could rewire the bass for £50 tops, so once done I would be totally satisfied that all is well, and have spent only £750.

I bought a Tokai Loverock 2 guitar on ebay last year, and it had dodgy pots. I took it to my tech, spent £70, new pots, orange drops, totally rewired. Total expenditure still a great deal. I am not saying that things should not work when you buy them, but I tend to take all my stuff to my tech to fiddle with on purchase anyway.

Like I say, nowt to do with me, but that would be where I would be coming from.

If the parties concerned wish me to remove this I will, but I thought it might lend a different perspective.

Chris[/quote]
#
Sorry mate, but the price has nothing to do with it. If there's a fault, it must be pointed out.

[Shockwave]

[quote name='nottswarwick' post='720453' date='Jan 21 2010, 07:50 PM']on another note, and obviously this is nowt to do with me, but it is worth saying (I think anyway) that wherever the "fault" (for want of a better word) lies, the bass was advertised for £700. I do not know the actual sale price, but this is a great price for a SR5. My tech could rewire the bass for £50 tops, so once done I would be totally satisfied that all is well, and have spent only £750.[/quote]

So? It was advertised as being in good condition and with no real problems. It shouldnt have been a problem in the first place. And 700 is not the cheapest i have seen for an SR5 (Indeed i bought and sold one on for £620, that one DID have a pickup wiring problem and i made SURE the buyer was aware of it.)

[quote]I bought a Tokai Loverock 2 guitar on ebay last year, and it had dodgy pots. I took it to my tech, spent £70, new pots, orange drops, totally rewired. Total expenditure still a great deal. I am not saying that things should not work when you buy them, but I tend to take all my stuff to my tech to fiddle with on purchase anyway.[/quote]

Letting off manufacturers or sellers on their responsibility to giving you a good product makes them unwilling to improve their product or description. Look at the video game industry, its all too common practice that games are released with many many bugs, maybe one patch is released to fix them, but does not fix them completely. Meanwhile the developer is still churning out DLC and add ons (that people pay for to expand the game) but still havent fixed fundamental game breaking problems (Leaving some people unable to play their purchase). These developers are now relying on FAN based patches to make their game work because it is uneconomical for them to produce free patches, the game is already bought, they got their money they dont give a toss if little Jimmy cant play it.

If you do not keep badgering sellers and returning dodgy good for a refund, then they will be more likely to produce shoddy work in the future if people just "Accept it"

When my barefaced cab came and the handles fell off should i have not of sent it back? Should i have been happy with my purchase? Hell no, i got a replacement and was far happier for it.

[nottswarwick]

both pete and shock above are of course right. I agree, but no one had yet made the point that I did.

WE will never know who is to blame probably. I would have known there was something wrong if I had tested it, but then I know Stingrays. Pretty tricky if you dont maybe

Dunno - I will keep my nose out.

C

[Dodge]

[quote name='eezer rudun' post='719981' date='Jan 21 2010, 11:55 AM']Having later proudly taken it to show a friend who knows stingrays very well he pointed out that it was sounding terrible on two of the three pickup settings (compared with what it should sound like..) and needed attention.[/quote]Just so we're clear, you tried the bass but someone else had to point out that it was sounding terrible? In which case, you can't blame the seller for not recognising there was a problem either.

[quote]This was a costly and timely process which resulted in the discovery of sellotaped wiring connections, plus cables not soldered on at all and all pickup wires soldered to the wrong connections...[/quote]
It's hardly costly or time consuming to whip a pickguard off and 'correct' any missing/incorrect/sellotaped connections. In fact, assuming the pickup/pots are correct and working, I'll happily rewire it to Musicman specs while you wait for free if you're local.


[quote name='Pete Academy' post='720450' date='Jan 21 2010, 07:47 PM']He knows nothing about the workings of a Stingray 5, much in the same way that I know f*ck all about how my car works.[/quote]
Not really a great analogy IMHO. I don't know how my car works either, but I know when it's not working.

[Shockwave]

[quote name='Dodge' post='720476' date='Jan 21 2010, 08:12 PM']Just so we're clear, you tried the bass but someone else had to point out that it was sounding terrible? In which case, you can't blame the seller for not recognising there was a problem either.[/quote]

Considering i had a Stingray which had two of its three positions not working correctly, i wouldnt say they sounded bad, but they didnt sound correct. One tone was ultra bright and weedy and one was very dark and low in volume. Considering i had never owned a stingray before i just assumed thats what they naturally sounded like and didnt think nothing of it until someone who did know something about MM's pointed it out.