Improvising too much! How can I stop?

[fatback]

For some reason, these days, i can't play the same line twice. And i'm not a jazzer.

it shouldn't be a problem, but this awful urge to change lines means I screw up sometimes when if I'd just stuck to the same line I'd have been fine.

I'm playing mostly alt.country/swing type stuff atm, a lot of it original.

This probably sounds like a weird problem, but it's making me nervous.

Any tips for learning your own lines?

fatback

Edited January 22, 2010 by fatback

[bigjohn]

I play alt/rock/country originals too. Quite a bit of set basslines with some improvised passages.

I go through patches like this... with hindsight I often think it's because I've augmented my style with a new technique or developed a new favourite run or style of run which I keep trying to fit into tracks I already play.

Either that or I'm not totally happy with the lines I'm playing and subconsciously I'm searching for something else.

If you're going through the same thing You'll come out the other side with lines you're happier with and a better ability to improvise with them.


The pitfall to watch out for is making lines more challenging because you can because your technique has improved sufficiently to allow this... That's not always best for the song is it?


The short term fix esp. for gigs is just to write some lines and stick to em as best you can!

[Beedster]

Discipline dude. If your guitarist was doing the same, you wouldn't call it improvising for sure, you'd probably call it f**king up. Sad fact of playing in a band is that for a number of reasons, you sometimes have to stick to the score.

[Beedster]

[quote name='fatback' post='721317' date='Jan 22 2010, 03:38 PM']Any tips for learning your own lines?[/quote]

Write them
Play them
Play them some more
Play them with your eyes closed
Sing them to yourself when you're not playing them
Then play them again

Our drummer occasionally improvises. Well, he used to, he knows what the stare from the bass player means now

[bigjohn]

[quote name='Beedster' post='721391' date='Jan 22 2010, 04:48 PM']Discipline dude. If [b]your guitarist was doing the same, you wouldn't call it improvising for sure, you'd probably call it f**king up[/b]. Sad fact of playing in a band is that for a number of reasons, you sometimes have to stick to the score.[/quote]


You'd not last 5 minutes playing with my lot!

I think if you can get "the feel" as a constant each time you play a song, there's a huge amount of scope to vary your lines. In fact, I find varying my lines is often needed to get the dynamics of the song right.

We do a lot of rehearsal though. It bloody needs it

Edited January 22, 2010 by bigjohn

[chris_b]

So what's the problem? The fact that you’re not playing the same line twice or that you screw up? Are you overplaying?

James Jamerson improvised or varied the lines on most of his "classics" so that's not a bad thing in itself. There are times when you have to stick to the line and times when you can let rip. Just practise so that you don't make mistakes and don't over play.

[bigjohn]

[quote name='chris_b' post='721403' date='Jan 22 2010, 05:00 PM']So what's the problem? The fact that you’re not playing the same line twice or that you screw up? Are you overplaying?

James Jamerson improvised or varied the lines on most of his "classics" so that's not a bad thing in itself. There are times when you have to stick to the line and times when you can let rip.[b] Just practise so that you don't make mistakes[/b] and don't over play.[/quote]


Or if you make a mistake... Play it twice

[Cat Burrito]

I would assume I don't vary lines but thinking about it, I guess I do. I practice lines a lot away from rehearsal playing along with recordings which helps.

[fatback]

All good advice

[quote]So what's the problem? The fact that you’re not playing the same line twice or that you screw up? Are you overplaying?[/quote]

Funnily enough, i don't think i play too much. I always consciously try not to. I think it's nervousness about maybe screwing up. In reality, in gigs esp., I don't screw up much (touch every kinda wood), but i might.

Maybe I'm just kinda restless. I get dissatisfied with what i play. I keep thinking it should be better. And then of course, i risk making it worse.

Just thought, it's gotten worse the more I've learned about harmony etc over the years. In the past, i would'nt have known how.

[quote]Discipline dude. If your guitarist was doing the same, you wouldn't call it improvising for sure, you'd probably call it f**king up.[/quote]

Ouch. Fair bit of truth in that one

If i can keep the creation bit for at home, I'll be fine.

New Year resolution - 'I shall play what i bl***y well played last time.'

fatback

Edited January 22, 2010 by fatback

[Paul_C]

I play the occasional dep gig for a ska/reggae band that I used to gig with regularly. The early songs we did have reasonably set-in-stone basslines, but the newer stuff I always make up every time - though usually only variations on a theme - I love it

[chris_b]

Everyone plays bum notes!! It only matters when you're recording and even then it doesn't! Check out the bass clanger on Gene Genie and where Jack Bruce mouths "sorry" to Clapton on the DVD for the Cream reunion gig at the Albert Hall.

It sounds like you don't need to worry about your playing, just work on building up your confidence.

[bigjohn]

[quote name='chris_b' post='721789' date='Jan 23 2010, 12:05 AM']Everyone plays bum notes!! It only matters when you're recording and even then it doesn't! Check out the bass clanger on Gene Genie and where Jack Bruce mouths "sorry" to Clapton on the DVD for the Cream reunion gig at the Albert Hall.

It sounds like you don't need to worry about your playing, just work on building up your confidence.[/quote]


I agree. I used to beat myself up everytime for about 5 minutes after each gig... then realised that no-one noticed the bum notes. And people really weren't interested in what mistakes I might have made anyway

I've recently heard some audio of some gigs we did a while back and I can't hear my "mistakes" either really. Whatever it was I was playing sounded ok, even if it wasn't exactly what I intended beforehand.

Edited January 23, 2010 by bigjohn

[bubinga5]

i totally know where your coming from..i learned in the context of the music and the audience just the root note sounds good played with the right feel and finger touch...you just learn to relax....over playing or restlessness in your/anyones/my playing, comes down to nerves i think..(not saying your a beginner of course)....IMHO, concentrate on the chords being played and just stick to the simple stuff...

its not a race, just relax....im a big believer in warming up and trying to relax as much as possible before playing, be it at home playing live...

[XB26354]

Pick a mid- to late-70's funk tune that goes on for 10-15 minutes, with a bass line that repeats with little or no variation.
Play along with it and don't improvise. Repeat again, and again.
Jazz improvisers may think that playing the same thing twice is not being creative but it's important to be able to repeat what you've played.
I've been in the studio where I've come up with a great improvised part but something else was wrong, and I couldn't recreate the feel. To smoothly develop an idea requires you to know (either by ear or feel) what you have played. Try playing along to a track and nailing the [i]exact[/i] bass line - it's hard!
However, as long as you are hitting the main notes of the groove, then a bit of improv gives a part a more human feel.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Beedster' post='721391' date='Jan 22 2010, 04:48 PM']Discipline dude. [...] [b]Sad fact of playing in a band is that for a number of reasons, you sometimes have to stick to the score.[/b][/quote]
The main reason will be because it sounds better.