Vintage MIJ (formerly J@pCr@p) Spotting

[Bassassin]

Maya was a brand owned by Rokkomann, a distributor based in Kobe. Anecdotally they owned their own manufacturing facility which was apparently destroyed in the Hanshin earthquake in 1995. I haven't found any documented confirmation of either the manufacturing plant or its demise but this is the prevailing mythology on the various JapCrap & related forums!

Interestingly, if you look at Maya & El Maya branded high-end original designs, they are very unlike anything coming from the better-known factories & I feel this gives some credence to the idea of a Rokkomann factory.

That said, it's entirely possible that Rokkomann outsourced to other manufacturers, like Tokai outsourced to Kasuga, but looking at this P copy I see no particular reason to think it's a Fujigen build.

I'd say it's a bit of a refurb job anyway - that white/cream pup's not original & the tuners look like cheap recent ones. Seriously doubt very many 70s P copies will have original ashtrays, either.

J.

[FlatEric]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1387464828' post='2312287']
Maya Fretless P. Said to be from the same factory as Ibanez/Tokai. I usually think of 'the Ibanez factor' being Fujigen, and of Tokai having its own factory. But it's been mentioned before that things are more complicated than that.

[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAYA-FRETLESS-PRECISION-BASS-1970s-ROTOSOUND-FLATWOUND-STRINGS-IBANEZ-TOKAI-ERA-/261357642044?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item3cda21213c"]http://www.ebay.co.u...=item3cda21213c[/url]
[/quote]

I've got one of these - an absolute cracker.
Mine is as original, with black pick-ups and I think Jon is right, my tuners
don't look like those.

Nice old bass.

[hoiho]

Too much fun to resist...
(It's mine now!)

Edited December 20, 2013 by hoiho

[Annoying Twit]

With things like the Rokkuman factory (the -nn is very unlikely in Japanese), it might be interesting to see if we can get in contact with a Japanese bass enthusiast of a suitable age. I'm off to google things such as '日本製ベース歴史’ and 'ロックマン工場’ to see what I get.

...

Oh hell, there's a video game called 'Rockman' which is spelt 'Rokkuman' in Japanese (I strongly suspect that this is meant to be the name of the Japanese instrument factory), and 'bass' and 'base' are spelt the same when written in Japanese. This is going to make searching much, much, harder.

[url="http://img5.blogs.yahoo.co.jp/ybi/1/44/c1/rockmanx121/folder/616885/img_616885_10221744_0"]LInk to image[/url]

There are also Rockman amps, as used by Boston and B'z.

Searching directly on Maya bass (マヤ　ベース) seems to throw up mainly English pages. E.g. this one that credits a company called Tahara with most of the Maya instruments, but also mentions the much better known Chushin. [url="http://torchsvintageguitarresearchblog.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/maya-guitar-mystery.html"]http://torchsvintage...ar-mystery.html[/url]

Edit: This blogger says that he's been involved in Rock and Pop for 35 years, and he says that he would like to talk about what he knows. [url="http://atelier-coco.info/?cat=11"]http://atelier-coco.info/?cat=11[/url]

Edit (again): [url="http://chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/my/enigmatica999"]This guy[/url] really knows his onions, and has answered thousands of questions on Yahoo Questions, specialising in guitar and bass questions. He wrote a lengthy answer about El Maya guitars, discussing a strat. [url="http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1066285765"]http://detail.chiebu...ail/q1066285765[/url] He didn't say which factory they were built in though.

Edit (again): I've asked my own question. (It includes apologies for my broken Japanese!) http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q13118233473

Edited December 20, 2013 by Annoying Twit

[Bassassin]

Excellent work - any chance you could translate the gist of the responses for the hard-of-Japanese?

I should have mentioned that Rokkomann are still a going concern:

[url="http://www.rokkomann.co.jp/"]http://www.rokkomann.co.jp/[/url]

I suspect someone there might know if they ever had a factory...

J.

[Annoying Twit]

Oops! I went the wrong direction when I tried googling Rokkuman instead of Rokkomann! Interesting to note that they spell their name in Japanese as ロッコマン which would naturally have a single N in roman letters, but they spell it with the double n.

I've received one answer to my question so far, which is:[q

[quote]

[url="http://rdsig.yahoo.co.jp/chiebukuro/PAGE=DT_ACTIVE/LOC=ANSLIST/R=1/O=ID/RV=1/RE=1387651276/RH=cmRzaWcueWFob28uY28uanA-/RB=/RU=aHR0cDovL2NoaWVidWt1cm8ueWFob28uY28uanAvbXkvZG91c3VydTI0/RS=%5EADAFK.s8fQ6NMyICu_qldpFs23OKJo-;_ylt=A2RAEEhMj7RSWBAACiBZqfZ7"][i]dousuru24[/i][/url]さん
初めまして、MayaとおっしゃっているのはEL Maya（エルマヤ）の
ことだと思いますが、自分の友人が一台エルマヤのジャズベースを
持っているので聞いてみました。
でも、神戸のロッコーマンという楽器店のオリジナルブランドぐらいの
ことしかやっぱりわからず、ロッコーマンから委託されて生産していた
工場まではわかりませんでした。
当時のロッコーマンのことが詳しく書かれているので、こちらを見て
みるとよいかもです。
[url="http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1066285765"]http://detail.chiebu...ail/q1066285765[/url]

力になれず、すみません。[/quote]

In this s/he says that by Maya they think I mean El Maya. S/he says that they asked one of their friends who has an El Maya bass. But he hadn't heard of any El Maya basses apart from those by Rokkomann in Kobe, so therefore hasn't heard of any made at any other location. S/he then recommends that I read a previous answer which has detailed information about Rokkomann in Kobe. [But, this is the answer I found previously which didn't mention the factories]. Then, s/he says (politely) sorry that they couldn't be of more help.

That's the first answer, and it arrived quite quickly. Hopefully there will be more answers overnight.

I've got to go revise the difference between Maya and El Maya basses.

There is a phone number for Rokkomann on their site. I wonder what would happen if I phoned them.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Annoying Twit

[Bassassin]

From what I know based on old catalogues & other JapCrap geeks, Maya & El Maya were both Rokkoman brands, with El Maya being the high-end copies & original designs. That said, I'm sure I've seen the same original instruments branded both as Maya & El Maya.

Apropos of nothing much, am I correct in thinking that Kobe is in the vicinity of two mountains called Rokko & Maya? Maybe I just hallucinated that. I should probably get some sleep.

J.

[Annoying Twit]

A quick google reveals that you are correct about the mountains.



BTW: It seems that if I'm going to keep on asking questions on Yahoo Japan questions, that I need to answer other people's questions too to build up 'coins'. I've just answered a question 'What's the best Christmas present, or the Christmas present that makes you really happy?' I've just said that in England, it's traditional for 'Dad' to receive socks and underwear, so if I receive anything better than that, I'm happy.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Annoying Twit

[noelk27]

God help us. Mr Twit is the de facto Basschat cultural attache to Japan!

Edited December 23, 2013 by noelk27

[alyctes]

[quote name='noelk27' timestamp='1387836242' post='2316400']
God help us. Mr Twit is the de facto Basschat cultural attache to Japan!
[/quote]

Is that bad?

[noelk27]

[quote name='alyctes' timestamp='1387846577' post='2316515']Is that bad?[/quote]
It could be worse. Could be me. For sure we'd be seeing ronin visiting our Nippon Gakki thread soon after my first proclamation.

[Annoying Twit]

I'd held off on the Yahoo Japan Questions answering thing after I found myself offering Japanese teenagers advice on their love lives.

[noelk27]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1387870271' post='2316567']I'd held off on the Yahoo Japan Questions answering thing after I found myself offering Japanese teenagers advice on their love lives.[/quote]
Eek! Stick to giving them advice about their nuts and rods.

[Annoying Twit]

I've just offered 250 virtual 'coins', which is well above average for a question, to anyone who can tell me which factory my Cimar bass was made in.

[Annoying Twit]

Local to me, and kindof interesting. But, I'm not going to do anything about it, as I think it's overpriced. http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/vintage-satellite-fretless-bass-guitar-nr-mint-orig-bag-130-villex-vp-pickups/1042860074

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1388048964' post='2318024']
Local to me, and kindof interesting. But, I'm not going to do anything about it, as I think it's overpriced. [url="http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/vintage-satellite-fretless-bass-guitar-nr-mint-orig-bag-130-villex-vp-pickups/1042860074"]http://www.gumtree.c...kups/1042860074[/url]
[/quote]
An even more expensive on here...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Satellite-original-fretless-bass-guitar-very-rare-and-with-hardcase-/290829725240?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item43b6cd6e38

[Bassassin]

Stupidly overpriced, both of them and the descriptions are drivel. These are Korean-made (as were ALL Satellites, no matter what Ebay "experts" pretend) and unfortunately not particularly good. I remember these when they were new, launched in about 1980 and cost £99. Quite fancied one but, little snob that I was, wouldn't have been seen dead playing anything with Satellite on the end!

I had curiosity-motivated GAS for one and eventually picked up a fretted, maple-board project example off BCer Geoff Byrne. This is it after a bit of tidying:

[sharedmedia=core:attachments:53512]

It was monumentally heavy, neck like a club, frets were horrible (ragged ends, uneven height) and the only way to achieve an action you couldn't stick your arm under was to excavate a 5mm+ deep route for the bridge to sit in! Looks like this was necessary due to a very low/thin fretboard, so I'd assume they're all like this. Someone had had a go already so I tidied up the resulting crater a little.

Construction in general was pretty shoddy - the body wings were made from lots of what looked like random bits of plank, presumably stained dark so it wasn't too obvious! If you look at the top horn in the pic you can see what looked like a hole drilled through the wood, roughly filled and varnished over! No idea what the wood is, but it ain't mahogany.

I wouldn't pay more than £100 for a decent one. Actually, having had one, I wouldn't pay that.

J.

[Bassassin]

£75 Matsumoku-built Hondo Pro:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hondo-Bass-Guitar-Made-in-Japan-70s-80s-Low-action-/321283739270

Original DiMarzio Model P is long-gone but still a damn good price.

J.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Bassassin

[Paul S]

I love the symmetry of these double cutaway basses. I'm guessing this is heavy with a wide neck - do you happen to know, Jon?

[Bassassin]

Never played one but it's probably not dissimilar to my Westbury Track 2, same spec, factory & era. In which case, yes on both counts - fairly hefty mahogany body and shallow Precision-width neck. I'd expect it to be pretty neck-divey too.

J.

[Paul S]

Ta. I was tempted for a while but I'll give it a miss, I think.

I think the problem is that it is rather reminiscent of my old Washburn Scavenger of which I still have fond memories even though it weighed as much as a bus. There must be a lightweight, slim-necked double cutaway bass that isn't an EB-0 out there somewhere in JapCrap land

[hoiho]

The Aria Pro II CSB-380 Cardinal fits the bill, as a "lightweight, slim-necked double cutaway bass" - only thing is it's a medium scale. I keep my blue one for "stunt bass". They come up on Ebay all the time, at wildy differing prices.

[Annoying Twit]

Yamaha BB1200 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-BB1200-Bass-Guitar-/321284942605?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item4ace132b0d

<fast show Jazz guy voice>Nice!</fast show Jazz guy voice>

[Paul S]

[quote name='hoiho' timestamp='1388185140' post='2319351']
The Aria Pro II CSB-380 Cardinal fits the bill, as a "lightweight, slim-necked double cutaway bass" - only thing is it's a medium scale. I keep my blue one for "stunt bass". They come up on Ebay all the time, at wildy differing prices.
[/quote]

Yes, the Aria Pro CSB Cardinal. I like the look of these (the one that catches my eye is the 'Black and Gold') and medium scale is all good as far as I am concerned. I asked about these on here a while back - from the replies I think the neck may be a bit too wide. But maybe they aren't all the same? Any chance you could please run the ruler (and scales) over yours, please?

[hoiho]

Okay, I've put my Cardinal under the vernier gauge, and the results are in:

[indent=1]Width at nut: 43mm. But it's only about 20mm thick. It's a shallow C-shape, obviously[/indent]
[indent=1]Width at 12th: 52mm, and about 25mm thick.[/indent]

That compares with 38mm, at the nut on my Epi EB-3, and 40mm on my Aria RSB.

I'm somewhat surprised by them. My slight preference is for a slim jazz-type neck. I've never felt the Cardinal to be as wide as my P-bass (but maybe because that's fretless?). I can only assume that the small thickness of the neck (the EB-3 is thicker than the Cardinal), the close string spacing at the nut, and the lack of string spread, is misleading me; it certainly[i] feels[/i] slimmer than it apparently is!

As for weight, unfortunately my luggage scales have a dead battery! It feels about the same weight as my RSB, if that's any guide. Not a lightweight, but not a shoulder-breaker either. I'll try and get a real figure!

Okay, on the missus's people-scales it comes in at about 3.9kg/8.5lbs. That's probably a wee bit more than stock, as I've got an EMG soapbar in there at the moment, rather than the original (which I keep meaning to get off to Aaron Armstrong for a rewind).

Edited December 28, 2013 by hoiho