Vintage MIJ (formerly J@pCr@p) Spotting

[zbigniew]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='651693' date='Nov 11 2009, 02:22 PM']Morris is the house-brand of Moridaira, who were (and still are) better-known for acoustic guitars. They jumped on the copy bandwagon in the 70s, like many Japanese guitar makers & woodworking businesses, and like pretty much all the rest, made instruments at a variety of different quality levels.

In the late 70s & early 80s Moridaira built Hohner guitars & basses, generally these are pretty good. In fact I bought a Moridaira Hohner guitar in 1983 and it was the only guitar I used for about 20 years. I only retired it because it desperately needs a refret & I need to repair some modifications I did when I was young & stupid! Great guitar & I'd love to get it playing again.

I can't tell too much from the pic, but get your friend to try & establish whether the body's solid timber or plywood - with an old MIJ P copy that's the easiest way to tell whether it's a cheapo or not.

Jon.[/quote]

Thanks a bunch for your expert input !!!

Forgive my ingnorance but what's the best way to tell the difference between plywood and solid wood on a painted body like this?

z

[Bassassin]

[quote name='zbigniew' post='651696' date='Nov 11 2009, 03:27 PM']Thanks a bunch for your expert input !!!

Forgive my ingnorance but what's the best way to tell the difference between plywood and solid wood on a painted body like this?

z[/quote]

Really the only way to make sure will be to look inside the body - the electronics routing under the scratchplate or the neck pocket. Ply will have visible splintery-looking lines where the edges of the layers are visible, solid timber will appear smooth. Hopefully the seller will agree to an examination like this. If there's any damage to the paint on the edges of the body, the wood might be visible there too.

J.

[zbigniew]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='651785' date='Nov 11 2009, 04:09 PM']Really the only way to make sure will be to look inside the body - the electronics routing under the scratchplate or the neck pocket. Ply will have visible splintery-looking lines where the edges of the layers are visible, solid timber will appear smooth. Hopefully the seller will agree to an examination like this. If there's any damage to the paint on the edges of the body, the wood might be visible there too.

J.[/quote]

Thanks again, I'll try and see if the seller will let my friend do this.

z

[spinynorman]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='651497' date='Nov 11 2009, 12:19 PM']Very pretty bass but that's a [b]lot[/b] of money (nearly 600 quid!) for any Japanese copy - particularly an inaccurate one from an unspecified manufacturer, with an anonymous importer brand. It's worth £200 at a push, imo.

I really can't guess who made this - I've never seen that sort of trc on a JapCrap Jazz, body is either ply or block, neck appears to be one piece with separate fretboard. Everything else looks pretty generic.

Not sure why he's comparing it to a "real" Jazz - the only thing that's better is the bridge alignment. And it's still out.

Jon.[/quote]

Just web search, so take it with a pinch of whatever you have to hand and wait for Jon to tell us how much is likely to be true.

Bradley was the house brand of Veneman's Music Emporium in Rockville, Maryland, replacing the Kapa brand, when the factory in Hyattsville closed down. The Veneman family lived near Bradley Boulevard in Bethesda and Koob Veneman liked the name. Bradleys were made by Fuji Gen Gakki and probably also Matsumoko, Aria and other builders around the Nagoya, Japan area. Bradleys ranged in quality from starter instruments to very high quality, depending on when and where made. In the 70s and early 80s Bradleys were imported from Japan. Later on in the 90s, the guitars were made in Korea. The company and store's inventory was purchased by the Guitar Center chain in 2000, who then converted the Rockville store into a Guitar Center.

There may have been more than one phase of Bradleys - earliest were Matsumoko sourced with pearloid script logo, later from unknown source with black decal script logo, including Fender copies with plastic saddles, then in the 80s either black or gold decal, and fret markers were stick-on dots.

[url="http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Electric+Bass/product/Bradley/Jazz+Clone/10/1"]Reviews of Bradley Jazz Bass on Harmony Central[/url]
[url="http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/brand/Bradley"]Bradley Guitar Reviews[/url]
[url="http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Electric+Bass/brand/Bradley"]Other Bradley Bass Reviews[/url]
[url="http://www.jvguitars.com/showproduct.pl?id=1112988402"]And here's the inevitable one made in the Ibanez factory[/url]

Sources

[url="http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=152280"]http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=152280[/url]
[url="http://en.allexperts.com/q/Guitar-General-649/f/Bradley-Rickenbacker-4003-Bass.htm"]http://en.allexperts.com/q/Guitar-General-...r-4003-Bass.htm[/url]
[url="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2000_April_24/ai_61614362/"]http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EI...24/ai_61614362/[/url]
[url="http://en.allexperts.com/q/Guitar-General-649/f/bradley-electric-guitar.htm"]http://en.allexperts.com/q/Guitar-General-...tric-guitar.htm[/url]

[spinynorman]

I only came on here to post this [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Antoria-vintage-Les-Paul-bass-guitar-needs-some-love_W0QQitemZ260505927191QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item3ca75cfe17"]Antoria Les Paul[/url] in case anyone in Essex fancies it.

And the Bradley still isn't worth 600 quid

[allighatt0r]

[quote name='spinynorman' post='654182' date='Nov 14 2009, 12:59 AM']I only came on here to post this [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Antoria-vintage-Les-Paul-bass-guitar-needs-some-love_W0QQitemZ260505927191QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item3ca75cfe17"]Antoria Les Paul[/url] in case anyone in Essex fancies it.

And the Bradley still isn't worth 600 quid [/quote]

Another ebay description gem: "The things I do know are that it's black..."

[pete.young]

[quote name='spinynorman' post='654182' date='Nov 14 2009, 12:59 AM']I only came on here to post this [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Antoria-vintage-Les-Paul-bass-guitar-needs-some-love_W0QQitemZ260505927191QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item3ca75cfe17"]Antoria Les Paul[/url] in case anyone in Essex fancies it.[/quote]

Nice work Norman!

I would have given almost anything for one like this in 1976. My guitarist friend had the 6-string version. I'm very tempted.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='spinynorman' post='654180' date='Nov 14 2009, 12:55 AM']Just web search, so take it with a pinch of whatever you have to hand and wait for Jon to tell us how much is likely to be true.

Bradley was the house brand of Veneman's Music Emporium in Rockville, Maryland, replacing the Kapa brand, when the factory in Hyattsville closed down. The Veneman family lived near Bradley Boulevard in Bethesda and Koob Veneman liked the name. Bradleys were made by Fuji Gen Gakki and probably also Matsumoko, Aria and other builders around the Nagoya, Japan area. Bradleys ranged in quality from starter instruments to very high quality, depending on when and where made. In the 70s and early 80s Bradleys were imported from Japan. Later on in the 90s, the guitars were made in Korea. The company and store's inventory was purchased by the Guitar Center chain in 2000, who then converted the Rockville store into a Guitar Center.

There may have been more than one phase of Bradleys - earliest were Matsumoko sourced with pearloid script logo, later from unknown source with black decal script logo, including Fender copies with plastic saddles, then in the 80s either black or gold decal, and fret markers were stick-on dots.

[url="http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Electric+Bass/product/Bradley/Jazz+Clone/10/1"]Reviews of Bradley Jazz Bass on Harmony Central[/url]
[url="http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/brand/Bradley"]Bradley Guitar Reviews[/url]
[url="http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Electric+Bass/brand/Bradley"]Other Bradley Bass Reviews[/url]
[url="http://www.jvguitars.com/showproduct.pl?id=1112988402"]And here's the inevitable one made in the Ibanez factory[/url]

Sources

[url="http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=152280"]http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=152280[/url]
[url="http://en.allexperts.com/q/Guitar-General-649/f/Bradley-Rickenbacker-4003-Bass.htm"]http://en.allexperts.com/q/Guitar-General-...r-4003-Bass.htm[/url]
[url="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2000_April_24/ai_61614362/"]http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EI...24/ai_61614362/[/url]
[url="http://en.allexperts.com/q/Guitar-General-649/f/bradley-electric-guitar.htm"]http://en.allexperts.com/q/Guitar-General-...tric-guitar.htm[/url][/quote]

Could all be gospel - why not? All Bradley is/was is another of the thousands and thousands of generic importer rebrands there were in the 70s. We certainly had enough here in the UK - Avon, Columbus, Grant, CMI, Shaftesbury, Arbiter, Jedson, Eros, Sumbro, Saxon, Grantson... The list goes on, and that's not including the likes of CSL & Antoria which during the 70s actually [i]were[/i] "from the Ibanez factory" - these were built by Fujigen, sourced through Ibanez brand owner Hoshino, and often identical to their Ibanez counterparts - apart from the name & the price tag.

And by contrast, the big giveaway of the ordinariness of the Bradley brand is the one "made by Ibanez". It's not - it's a generic plywood EB-0 copy, from the same source as the low-end tat labelled Avon & Columbus over here. I had the same bass labelled Grantson, cost me £25 from a car boot. It wasn't very good.

As for the £600 Jazz, I stick by my earlier assessment - looks OK, maybe worth a couple of hundred, can't positively ID the factory - but it doesn't have typical Fujigen or Matsumoku traits, which would be odd considering it's a generic mid-70s Jazz bass copy. I'd be more inclined to think it's from one of the 30-odd other known factories which were making Fender copies at the time.

Anyway - enough of that. Norman's Antoria LP is much nicer & more interesting - I've never encountered the bass version before with an Antoria brand (it's the same bass as the [url="http://www.ibanez.ru/info/catalog/1973-3/15.jpg"]Ibanez 2350B/DX[/url] - except this one has the later "post-lawsuit" headstock design. Thinking about it, I don't think I've seen a Fujigen LP bass with this headstock before.

Of course it reminds me of my second-ever bass - an unbranded medium-scale black LP-alike, which I bought as a wreck off a school mate. Hope someone from BC gets this one.

Jon.

[spinynorman]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='654350' date='Nov 14 2009, 11:16 AM']Anyway - enough of that. Norman's Antoria LP is much nicer & more interesting - I've never encountered the bass version before with an Antoria brand (it's the same bass as the [url="http://www.ibanez.ru/info/catalog/1973-3/15.jpg"]Ibanez 2350B/DX[/url] - except this one has the later "post-lawsuit" headstock design. Thinking about it, I don't think I've seen a Fujigen LP bass with this headstock before.

Of course it reminds me of my second-ever bass - an unbranded medium-scale black LP-alike, which I bought as a wreck off a school mate. Hope someone from BC gets this one.

Jon.[/quote]

Oh, I hate seeing that catalogue page. To the left of the 2350, the 2345B, I had one of those. I sold it when I bought a Japanese Epi Elitist EB3 and then wished I hadn't. That Ibanez was the nicest shortscale I've played. I'd really like to find another one.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='spinynorman' post='654965' date='Nov 15 2009, 02:21 AM']Oh, I hate seeing that catalogue page. To the left of the 2350, the 2345B, I had one of those. I sold it when I bought a Japanese Epi Elitist EB3 and then wished I hadn't. That Ibanez was the nicest shortscale I've played. I'd really like to find another one.[/quote]
The nice MIJ EB copies do come up, Kasuga & Matsumoku definitely are worth a look as well as Fujigen. I'll flag 'em if I spot 'em.

J.

[sgt-pluck]

Bit of a Japcrap bonanza on eBay at the moment! No less than 3 Tokia JS's, 3 decent Aria SB's plus others, a veritable forest of Westone, a couple of briefly repopular Hohner headless, a lovely BB1200 - whats going on?! Prices seem to have errrr, 'recovered' somewhat too - some scary numbers being plucked out the air... Shame, cos there's a couple of pieces I quite fancy amongst that lot!

Pluck

Edited November 15, 2009 by sgt-pluck

[Bassassin]

Might be time to start properly updating this thread again.

J.

[spinynorman]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='655149' date='Nov 15 2009, 01:25 PM']The nice MIJ EB copies do come up, Kasuga & Matsumoku definitely are worth a look as well as Fujigen. I'll flag 'em if I spot 'em.

J.[/quote]

The one I had might not have been Ibanez, there was no name on it anywhere exept the Maxon pickups and the bridge pickup was so far gone I replaced it with an unauthentic EMG. The thing that distinguishes it is the body, which is too long for an accurate EB3 copy. The ones I've seen since have all been the shorter, fatter body. If you do come across a 2345 or similar I'd be interested.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='655149' date='Nov 15 2009, 01:25 PM']The nice MIJ EB copies do come up, Kasuga & Matsumoku definitely are worth a look as well as Fujigen. I'll flag 'em if I spot 'em.

J.[/quote]

And this might be one here:

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260507883079"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=260507883079[/url]

CMI - branded EB copy, the pics don't give much away but CMIs on the whole tended to be decent quality. They sourced from a number of factories, I can't be sure but a 6-bolt plate might point to Moridaira. Body's not plywood, so that's a good start. The insanely high bridge does kind of suggest it's in need of a decent setup, though.

J.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Bassassin

[pete.young]

Interesting looking Maya, plus a nice bonus of a half-reasonable HH combo!

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HH-100w-Bass-Amplifer-Combo-Electric-Bass-Guitar_W0QQitemZ220511255860QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MusicalInstr_Amplifiers_RL?hash=item33577ebd34"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HH-100w-Bass-Amplife...=item33577ebd34[/url]

[pete.young]

Collection of Yamaha bits - I don't think this is an SBV500 re-issue but I sold mine a long time ago and can't quite remember what it looked like.

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Old-Electric-Bass-Guitar_W0QQitemZ280424290384QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item414a971850"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Old-Electric-Bass-Gu...=item414a971850[/url]

[Happy Jack]

I'm sorry but you have to draw the line somewhere ...

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Westbury-Track-2-Bass-70s-Vint-BLACK-w-original-case_W0QQitemZ320451986445QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item4a9c6d440d"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Westbury-Track-2-Bas...=item4a9c6d440d[/url]

This isn't quirky, or different, or unusual, or even challenging.

It's ugly.

[Moos3h]

Anyone interested in a Yamamoto P Bass? AMAZING neck, but dreadfully bodged Jazz Pickup installed. Sunburst. £100 in my local music shop!

Definite 70's Japcrap. Looks the part, but the body is junk I think.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='661149' date='Nov 21 2009, 04:45 PM']I'm sorry but you have to draw the line somewhere ...

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Westbury-Track-2-Bass-70s-Vint-BLACK-w-original-case_W0QQitemZ320451986445QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item4a9c6d440d"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Westbury-Track-2-Bas...=item4a9c6d440d[/url]

This isn't quirky, or different, or unusual, or even challenging.

It's ugly.[/quote]
Quite Gibsony. I could live with it but the cream pup covers would have to go.

[beerdragon]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='659165' date='Nov 19 2009, 01:11 PM']And this might be one here:

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260507883079"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=260507883079[/url]

CMI - branded EB copy, the pics don't give much away but CMIs on the whole tended to be decent quality. They sourced from a number of factories, I can't be sure but a 6-bolt plate might point to Moridaira. Body's not plywood, so that's a good start. The insanely high bridge does kind of suggest it's in need of a decent setup, though.

J.[/quote]

The nut at the G string looks odd, is that how they were made?

[Moos3h]

Nope, the edge part of the nut for the G has snapped off.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='661169' date='Nov 21 2009, 05:11 PM']Quite Gibsony. I could live with it but the cream pup covers would have to go.[/quote]

Westbury Track 2s are great - here's mine:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=56477"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=56477[/url]

Although £350 is a bit steep. I'd give him £15 for the case, though.

The pickup's a DiMarzio, hence the cream cover, I like it, proper vintagey-looking.

J.

[beerdragon]

[quote name='Moos3h' post='661227' date='Nov 21 2009, 06:31 PM']Nope, the edge part of the nut for the G has snapped off.[/quote]

That was my first thought. but the guy doesn't mention it.

[Musky]

[quote name='pete.young' post='660995' date='Nov 21 2009, 01:56 PM']Collection of Yamaha bits - I don't think this is an SBV500 re-issue but I sold mine a long time ago and can't quite remember what it looked like.

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Old-Electric-Bass-Guitar_W0QQitemZ280424290384QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item414a971850"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Old-Electric-Bass-Gu...=item414a971850[/url][/quote]

That's on old SB 1, which I don't think ever got reissued.

Bit of an oddity there though. I don't think they ever did a two pickup version, and looking at the pickguard it seems to have been cut for a P type pickup (and he seems to have only one half of that, going by the pic). It seems someone has got further with that project than he's saying, as I'm guessing it's been routed and resprayed.

Still, worth the money as it stands if you can be bothered to do the work and drop a bit of cash on it. And you don't plan on playing sitting down.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Musky' post='661570' date='Nov 22 2009, 09:32 AM']That's on old SB 1, which I don't think ever got reissued.

Bit of an oddity there though. I don't think they ever did a two pickup version, and looking at the pickguard it seems to have been cut for a P type pickup (and he seems to have only one half of that, going by the pic). It seems someone has got further with that project than he's saying, as I'm guessing it's been routed and resprayed.

Still, worth the money as it stands if you can be bothered to do the work and drop a bit of cash on it. And you don't plan on playing sitting down. [/quote]
Agreed - it's an SB1C, originally like this:

[url="http://www.yamaha.co.jp/product/guitar/eg/database/sb/sb-1c.html"]http://www.yamaha.co.jp/product/guitar/eg/...e/sb/sb-1c.html[/url]

It's possible there might have been 2 pup versions, but it wouldn't have had a P type unit anyway.

Looks like it might be a fun project if you weren't too bothered about restoring it to original.

J.