Vintage MIJ (formerly J@pCr@p) Spotting

[2x18]

And onother Cardinal!

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aria-Pro-II-Cardinal-Series-Bass-vintage-Japan-relic_W0QQitemZ230417563443QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item35a5f4ff33"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aria-Pro-II-Cardinal...=item35a5f4ff33[/url]

[Annoying Twit]

I put a lowball on that. I don't know how it works around here, but just in case, my bid is far too low to call "dibs" on it. Anyone thinking of bidding a reasonable bid, be my guest.

[Ou7shined]

I hope you get it man.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' post='695949' date='Dec 29 2009, 10:05 PM']I put a lowball on that. I don't know how it works around here, but just in case, my bid is far too low to call "dibs" on it. Anyone thinking of bidding a reasonable bid, be my guest.[/quote]
I won't be bidding so best of luck!

Although it is just down the road from me - quite happy to collect it on your behalf. And look after it for you, for a year or two...

J.

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='696147' date='Dec 30 2009, 10:23 AM']I won't be bidding so best of luck!

Although it is just down the road from me - quite happy to collect it on your behalf. And look after it for you, for a year or two...

J.[/quote]

I would like something (bass or guitar) Japtastic in my collection, but aren't in a hurry. The bottom line is, if I was really serious about the instrument, I'd be bidding more The precision pickup configuration isn't my favourite, I prefer humbuckers, or a Jazz setup. But, if I actually did win for the price I bid, I'm not going to be complaining!

Edit: Outbid already. I'll think about it.....

Edited December 30, 2009 by Annoying Twit

[Musky]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' post='696171' date='Dec 30 2009, 10:56 AM']I would like something (bass or guitar) Japtastic in my collection, but aren't in a hurry. The bottom line is, if I was really serious about the instrument, I'd be bidding more The precision pickup configuration isn't my favourite, I prefer humbuckers, or a Jazz setup. But, if I actually did win for the price I bid, I'm not going to be complaining!

Edit: Outbid already. I'll think about it.....[/quote]

You're in luck - it is a humbucking pickup! Just the standard P type though.

You've spotted it's a medium scale bass, right? I've got two Cardinals, a 300 and a 380, and got both for less than £80 plus the postage so this might be approaching it's money. Having said that, I haven't seen a Cardinal bass on the 'bay for a while so maybe there are a few people on the look out for one.

Edit: And if that 450 wasn't a lefty I'd be adding it to my collection as well!

Edited December 31, 2009 by Musky

[2x18]

Avon calling!!!

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Avon-3-4-scale-Made-in-Japan-1970s_W0QQitemZ180451158979QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item2a03ba2bc3"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Avon-3-4-scale-Made-...=item2a03ba2bc3[/url]

[2x18]

Could be a cheap Westone Thunder for someone in the Dorking Area --- A New account with zero feedback and collect only!


[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bass-Guitar_W0QQitemZ250556461288QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item3a565430e8"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bass-Guitar_W0QQitem...=item3a565430e8[/url]

Will.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='2x18' post='697341' date='Dec 31 2009, 05:10 PM']Avon calling!!!

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Avon-3-4-scale-Made-in-Japan-1970s_W0QQitemZ180451158979QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item2a03ba2bc3"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Avon-3-4-scale-Made-...=item2a03ba2bc3[/url][/quote]

How much? I think Avon's gonna be calling for a while!

That Westy on the other hand will probably be a steal for someone.

J.

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='Musky' post='697159' date='Dec 31 2009, 01:16 PM']You're in luck - it is a humbucking pickup! Just the standard P type though.

You've spotted it's a medium scale bass, right? I've got two Cardinals, a 300 and a 380, and got both for less than £80 plus the postage so this might be approaching it's money. Having said that, I haven't seen a Cardinal bass on the 'bay for a while so maybe there are a few people on the look out for one.[/quote]

Ah, when I say I like humbucking pickups, I prefer the humbucking pickup to be right up in the neck location. As for the medium scale, I have been seduced by this demo of the Eastwood Classic 4.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmSUjhcJaPo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmSUjhcJaPo[/url]

It's the neck pickup sound of that bass that I'd really like to get. The reviewer also attributes some of the sound characteristics to the short scale. I can only buy an Eastwood classic 4 if I order it, and wait some months to receive it. Even though I love the sound in the review, I don't really want to buy a bass completely untried.

Soundwise, I prefer Eastwood Classic 4 > typical jazz bass > precision.

It seems it's the short scale, semi-hollow, and neck humbucker that gets the sound I'd like. There was someone selling two Yamaha BEX4s. But, when I checked out Youtube clips, the centrally situated single humbucker didn't have the right sound.

But, I'd like something Japtastic. If I could get something like the Cardinal series basses that some people say can be picked up for £90 or so, then I wouldn't mind if it's not my favourite sound, as for only £90 or so, it wouldn't take up too many funds and prevent other purchases.

[quote]Edit: And if that 450 wasn't a lefty I'd be adding it to my collection as well![/quote]

I guess you don't want this one either then. [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LEFT-HANDED-ARIA-PRO-2-CLASSIC-LASER-BASS-MATSUMOTO-MIJ_W0QQitemZ280445952114QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item414be1a072"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LEFT-HANDED-ARIA-PRO...=item414be1a072[/url]

[Musky]

Ahh... I don't think you'd be happy with the Cardinal then, as it's got a very grunty Precision-like sound to it. The shorter scale adds a little 'flap' to the sound, which is quite retro but doesn't really sound like what you're looking for.

[Happy Jack]

[i][b]"This was produced at a time when the components were carefully selected and put together by craftsmen, unlike today!"[/b][/i]

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bass-guitar-full-size-1970s-SUPERB-CONDITION_W0QQitemZ190362685828QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item2c52801184"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bass-guitar-full-siz...=item2c52801184[/url]

Bwahahahaha!

[allighatt0r]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='700818' date='Jan 4 2010, 07:14 PM'][i][b]"This was produced at a time when the components were carefully selected and put together by craftsmen, unlike today!"[/b][/i]

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bass-guitar-full-size-1970s-SUPERB-CONDITION_W0QQitemZ190362685828QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item2c52801184"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bass-guitar-full-siz...=item2c52801184[/url]

Bwahahahaha![/quote]

That's not a bad looking bass (imho). shame he wasted the bottom left section of his multi shot photo on the throw instead of the headstock!

[Mr. Foxen]

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/70s-Ibanez-Bass-Guitar-Flight-Case-CIMAR-head-Decal_W0QQitemZ230420024682QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item35a61a8d6a"]Ibanez or Cimar?[/url]

[Ou7shined]

Both. Same factory.

How can it be a "lawsuit" if it doesn't look feck all like a F*nder though?

[Bassassin]

Cimar. Not an Ibanez, because they have "Ibanez" written on them. Which is surprisingly easy to spot, once you're conversant with that little-known fact.

It's this:

[attachment=39348:cimarbasscatalogue.jpg]

Specifically a Cimar XR2065BS. In the case of this example the "BS" presumably refers to the suggestion that it's an Ibanez in disguise. It's an early 80s bass & an original-ish shape and therefore nothing to do with any imaginary lawsuit.

Ibanez & Cimar were related by this point, possibly both originating from Fujigen, & being distributed via Hoshino. These pre-date the mid-80s "Cimar by Ibanez" cheapos, so it's not known if Hoshino actually owned the brand at that point.

I've actually got one of these in a less-original but generally tidy condition. It's presently gathering dust so I'll be watching this one with a degree of curiosity.

J.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='allighatt0r' post='700855' date='Jan 4 2010, 07:47 PM']That's not a bad looking bass (imho). shame he wasted the bottom left section of his multi shot photo on the throw instead of the headstock![/quote]
That's not a 70s copy, though.

J.

[allighatt0r]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='700950' date='Jan 4 2010, 08:46 PM']That's not a 70s copy, though.

J.[/quote]

Ah. I see. What gives it away?

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='700867' date='Jan 4 2010, 07:55 PM'][b]Both. Same factory.[/b]

How can it be a "lawsuit" if it doesn't look feck all like a F*nder though?[/quote]
[quote name='Bassassin' post='700947' date='Jan 4 2010, 08:45 PM']Cimar. Not an Ibanez, because they have "Ibanez" written on them. Which is surprisingly easy to spot, once you're conversant with that little-known fact.

It's this:

[attachment=39348:cimarbasscatalogue.jpg]

Specifically a Cimar XR2065BS. In the case of this example the "BS" presumably refers to the suggestion that it's an Ibanez in disguise. It's an early 80s bass & an original-ish shape and therefore nothing to do with any imaginary lawsuit.

Ibanez & Cimar were related by this point, possibly both originating from Fujigen, & being distributed via Hoshino. [b]These pre-date the mid-80s "Cimar by Ibanez" cheapos[/b], so it's not known if Hoshino actually owned the brand at that point.

I've actually got one of these in a less-original but generally tidy condition. It's presently gathering dust so I'll be watching this one with a degree of curiosity.

J.[/quote]
My bad.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='700998' date='Jan 4 2010, 09:26 PM']My bad.[/quote]
Well - not exactly! I can't help but be irritated by Ebayers who misrepresent what they're selling like this. Apart from being dishonest, this sort of bollocks ends up being accepted as "fact", and for an anally retentive, neurotic trainspotter such as myself, that's borderline intolerable.

The relationship between Cimar & Ibanez is confusing and there's no clear answer to who made what, where & why - at least not yet. 70s copy-era Cimars were not built by Fujigen - I had a Cimar Jazz & it was a pretty low-end & cheaply made copy, while others were actually superior to their Fujigen/Ibanez counterparts - the Cimar Rick copy was much more authentic. It's not yet been established who made these, or the subsequent original designs.

It does appear likely that the later instruments were from Fujigen, though - the best evidence for this is the Cimar Stinger/Ibanez Blazer Mk 1, which are exactly the same instrument. So far this appears to be the only example under both badges but if we assume that all MIJ Ibbys were Fujigen (which is the prevailing conventional wisdom among Ibby collectors) then there's your evidence. This would appear to be substantiated by the headstocks of other early 80s Cimars, which tend to "borrow" both of the Blazer designs.

The obvious conclusion to jump to is that these Cimars [i]are[/i] low-rent Ibanezes, but it's probably more likely that all of them were just factory-originated designs, and available to whoever wanted to buy 'em. My 1980 CSL Jazz copy has the "Early Blazer" head & I've seen the later style too. There's a rare MIJ brand called Oakland, whose range included a Mk2 Blazer bass & guitar, identical in every way apart from a slightly different headstock. In the US, Ibanez "clones" pop up with a bewildering range of names - which is what's at the root of the Ebay myth that ever second MIJ guitar is an "Ibanez with a different name".

The "Cimar by Ibanez" thing is a little more clear-cut - although it's not known if Hoshino Gakki ever actually owned the brand - in fact according to a former Hoshino US employee, who posts occasionally on the Ibanez Collectors forum, they didn't. It's likely there's no clear-cut answer - Japanese business relationships seem to be oddly incestuous & much less directly competitive than the Western model, a distributor (like Hoshino) might own shares in the factory it orders from, and vice-versa, and in turn a second distributor might have shares in both, so working in a mutually beneficial way is preferable.

Anyway. Lesson over, hope you were paying attention at the back because there'll be a test tomorrow.

J.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='allighatt0r' post='700980' date='Jan 4 2010, 09:12 PM']Ah. I see. What gives it away? [/quote]
Headstock, primarily - if it's a 1976, and therefore "lawsuit" era bass, it would have a Fender shape. After that, rosewood boards are very rare on 70s copies. It's possible it's a refin/new plate & pup, but they're all wrong for the era, too.

J.

[KennysFord]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='700818' date='Jan 4 2010, 07:14 PM'][i][b]"This was produced at a time when the components were carefully selected and put together by craftsmen, unlike today!"[/b][/i]

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bass-guitar-full-size-1970s-SUPERB-CONDITION_W0QQitemZ190362685828QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item2c52801184"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bass-guitar-full-siz...=item2c52801184[/url]

Bwahahahaha![/quote]

Quite sexy that. !!

[allighatt0r]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='701164' date='Jan 4 2010, 11:55 PM']Headstock, primarily - if it's a 1976, and therefore "lawsuit" era bass, it would have a Fender shape. After that, rosewood boards are very rare on 70s copies. It's possible it's a refin/new plate & pup, but they're all wrong for the era, too.

J.[/quote]

Aaaah OK. Thanks!

[Happy Jack]

It was a long time coming, but I knew I would see the day.

My love of SGC Nanyo basses has finally collided with JapCrap, Matsumoku, and ludicrously inaccurate details.

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BASS-COLLECTION-S-G-C-NANYO-ORIG-JAPAN-80s-BASS_W0QQitemZ180452778949QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item2a03d2e3c5"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BASS-COLLECTION-S-G-...=item2a03d2e3c5[/url]

I particularly like the idea that SGC Nanyo was founded by an Englishman whose initials were SGC. It's a shame the vendor didn't follow through to the idea of this Engrishman having a Japanese grandmother whom he tenderly addressed as "Nanyo".

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='702236' date='Jan 5 2010, 10:28 PM']It was a long time coming, but I knew I would see the day.

My love of SGC Nanyo basses has finally collided with JapCrap, Matsumoku, and ludicrously inaccurate details.

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BASS-COLLECTION-S-G-C-NANYO-ORIG-JAPAN-80s-BASS_W0QQitemZ180452778949QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item2a03d2e3c5"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BASS-COLLECTION-S-G-...=item2a03d2e3c5[/url]

I particularly like the idea that SGC Nanyo was founded by an Englishman whose initials were SGC. It's a shame the vendor didn't follow through to the idea of this Engrishman having a Japanese grandmother whom he tenderly addressed as "Nanyo".[/quote]

Oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. I am struggling with the near-overwhelming temptation to message this seller, simply saying: "STOP MAKING THINGS UP".

And so the Ebay JapCrap Bullsh!t Mythology Machine rolls on....

J.