A little advice needed :)

[Rockchic182]

ive been playing bass on and off for the last 4 years and i am yet to learn a technique to create brilliant riffs and hooklines and seem only to copy the guitarist and/or the root of the chord any ideas on what i could do or practise to be able to create them

[mcgraham]

I'd say transcribing is a great way to work these things out.

Make a list of your favourite riffs/hooks in songs. Work out how to play them by ear (don't look up the tabs!). Play along with the song. Now, try and identify in a way that is meaningful to you, what makes that riff sound cool to you. For example, the Master of Puppets intro riff sounds cool to me and I identify this as being because each note goes down the neck one fret at a time. This gives quite a distinctive sound, particularly when coupled with the rhythm they are played with. Try doing that with your favourite riffs and see what you come up with. Try also to vary the riff slightly, play around with it and figure out variations that sound cool. Perhaps even splice riffs together.

Does that make sense?

[Rockchic182]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='725050' date='Jan 26 2010, 12:43 PM']I'd say transcribing is a great way to work these things out.

Make a list of your favourite riffs/hooks in songs. Work out how to play them by ear (don't look up the tabs!). Play along with the song. Now, try and identify in a way that is meaningful to you, what makes that riff sound cool to you. For example, the Master of Puppets intro riff sounds cool to me and I identify this as being because each note goes down the neck one fret at a time. This gives quite a distinctive sound, particularly when coupled with the rhythm they are played with. Try doing that with your favourite riffs and see what you come up with. Try also to vary the riff slightly, play around with it and figure out variations that sound cool. Perhaps even splice riffs together.

Does that make sense?[/quote]

yea that makes perfect sense thanks very useful

[mcgraham]

No worries! Above all, make sure you have fun! If it's not even remotely fun, then you're doing something wrong.

[Bilbo]

Fun is overated. Being a great bass player requires you to get off on making other people sound good. Once you get that and make it so, its the best fun in teh world. But getting to that space is not all 'fun'; it can be damned hard work. Satisfying? Rewarding? Yes, but fun? Not always. But what I will say is that, particularly in the early stages, it is when it is NOT fun that most of the learning is taking place.

[fatback]

The thing that made the biggest difference for me was learning the scales that went with each type of chord and then working hard at them as exercises.

The best exercises for helping with creating lines, I found, were those that used intervals (like running up/down a scale in seconds, thirds fourths et) and sequences (playing 1,2,3; 2,3,4; 3,4,5 etc). You can get amazingly cool riffs by putting one of each type of motion together in one phrase.

Great for the ear too.

And fun.

fatback

[Doddy]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='725050' date='Jan 26 2010, 12:43 PM']I'd say transcribing is a great way to work these things out.

Make a list of your favourite riffs/hooks in songs. Work out how to play them by ear (don't look up the tabs!). P[/quote]

So technically,not transcribing then? Sorry to be pedantic but,transcribing is when you actually notate things,not just
work them out.

Rockchic- The best 'technique to create brilliant riffs and hooklines', is to study music. Learning what the notes are and
how they work together is the best way of understanding how to move away from root notes and to help create interesting
lines.
Do you know the notes on the 'board? After 4 years,i think you should. If not,learn them. Then I'd recommend that you start
looking at arpeggios. These are the notes that make up the chords.It will allow you to understand what notes are readily available
for you to use,rather than just the root note.
This is generally,I find,a good place to start,but like Bilbo said,it's not always fun,but it is very rewarding. If you want fun,go and jam along to
some Blink 182 or something-but don't use tabs..........ever. Use your ear or find some proper notation-trust me,it's much more beneficial to you.
Also,look in to finding a teacher who can help you with all this,you will progress quicker with someone to guide you through it.

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='Doddy' post='725330' date='Jan 26 2010, 04:02 PM']So technically,not transcribing then? Sorry to be pedantic but,transcribing is when you actually notate things,not just
work them out.

Rockchic- The best 'technique to create brilliant riffs and hooklines', is to study music. Learning what the notes are and
how they work together is the best way of understanding how to move away from root notes and to help create interesting
lines.
Do you know the notes on the 'board? After 4 years,i think you should. If not,learn them. Then I'd recommend that you start
looking at arpeggios. These are the notes that make up the chords.It will allow you to understand what notes are readily available
for you to use,rather than just the root note.
This is generally,I find,a good place to start,but like Bilbo said,it's not always fun,but it is very rewarding. If you want fun,go and jam along to
some Blink 182 or something-but don't use tabs..........ever. Use your ear or find some proper notation-trust me,it's much more beneficial to you.
Also,look in to finding a teacher who can help you with all this,you will progress quicker with someone to guide you through it.[/quote]

Know any good teachers?

[Doddy]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='725337' date='Jan 26 2010, 04:08 PM']Know any good teachers? [/quote]


Funny you should say that.........

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='Doddy' post='725344' date='Jan 26 2010, 04:10 PM']Funny you should say that......... [/quote]

If you need a teacher, I can vouch for this man.

[Rockchic182]

Thanks guys

[Igor Gribov]

My advices :

You should develop your sense of audition for making a good bass lines. You should anticipate the next notes in your mind. The way of analytical count does your line some hammy.It may be good choise if your target is quickly, precision lines who according with composition, "easy line" (as "easy money"). In case, if you played in band exceptionally for money.
I think, the best lines have born with work your intuition. But,for this, your subconscious must be replete exact music knowledge,anyway..

And assuredly, You should play many bass lines from any bassbook in various styles. This your baggage. Your music vocabulary.

I wish a good sound and the great grooves to you!

Edited January 27, 2010 by Igor Gribov

[Igor Gribov]

Also, I`ve recommended to you the great ritmic school by Louis Bellson- "Modern reading text in 4/4 for all instruments".
Knock a quarter (metric part) with foot. Ritmic phrases - in hand. (hit on your knee or on the table)
It`s your ritmical vocabulary.

[url="http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Reading-Text-All-Instruments/dp/0769233775"]http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Reading-Text-...s/dp/0769233775[/url]

[mcgraham]

Bilbo, whilst I agree with the sentiment that some things aren't as fun as other things, I disagree that fun is overrated. Yes, there are some things that may seem more tedious than others (e.g. running scales, theory, vs slapping, playing your favourite songs over and over), I'm a firm believer that if you are not having any fun at all whilst doing it, then you are doing it wrong. My opinion is that those who find a particular aspect devoid of fun simply have not tried to explore it in the right context.

Doddy, if you read any of my other responses (which you may have done, I just don't know), you will appreciate that I am a huge proponent of learning theory. However, I feel that over in Theory and Technique, sometimes we theory-advocates are all too eager to give beginners an absolute hammering of 'learn this learn that, theory is really important' without actually giving them any practical outworking of how to do that. The sole purpose of my post was to give a constructive practical suggestion, that would encourage the OP to go away and improve that aspect of their playing. Sure, I didn't advocate learning scales or learning intervallic relationships, and maybe I should've emphasised that more, but for someone who wants to learn to improve their ability to create riffs, I feel that my post gave a sound approach to improving that element of their playing in a way that was accessible to them.

Apologies for getting defensive, I took a dislike to the facetious tone in your posts. If I read that tone into your posts I apologise for that too.

[Igor Gribov]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='725244' date='Jan 26 2010, 03:58 PM']Fun is overated. Being a great bass player requires you to get off on making other people sound good. Once you get that and make it so, its the best fun in teh world. But getting to that space is not all 'fun'; it can be damned hard work. Satisfying? Rewarding? Yes, but fun? Not always. But what I will say is that, particularly in the early stages, it is when it is NOT fun that most of the learning is taking place.[/quote]

I agree
+1

[Rockchic182]

thanks every1 for replying it has helped me alot

[lowfer]

scales and knowing the notes on the fingerboard are vital. However, you have to be careful that you don't get stuck in one flavour of groove as i have done in the past and had to work on rythmic changes and using different notes and ghost notes. to add a different flavour. However it is also important to remeber that the bass is a supporting instrument the glue between the harmony and the rhythm. somebody once told me that if you play a gig and nobody comments on the bass playing you have done your job well.

[bassbloke]

I'm assuming you're in a rock/metal band. Focus on the drummer and less on the riffs. Whilst you have to complement the guitars, your job is to provide the foundation. You may end up with less interesting parts, but that's the sacrifice of being a bass player.

You'll also help your drummer develop.

[Major-Minor]

RockChick
I can only echo Doddy's opinion - GET A TEACHER ! That way you will learn more in 4 months that you have in 4 years !

The Major

[peteb]

Have to say that in this rainy, over regulated, stress-ridden island - fun is most certainly NOT overated!

However, I would say that when you are playing something like Metallica, or any other big rock type music, the fun is playing a bass part (that may be simple or occasionally quite complicated) that contributes to a massive sound where the whole is much greater than the sum of its individual parts and that demands an almost physical reaction from the people listening to it - that's where the real fun is!

The equivalent in a funk band is to create a killer groove that people can't help but move to, or if you're a jazz musician to create a passage of music that is vaguely listenable.....

[Rockchic182]

thanks. only concern is bass teachers are like anything else they cost alot to have the lesson

[Bass-ic]

[quote name='Rockchic182' post='738384' date='Feb 7 2010, 07:44 PM']thanks. only concern is bass teachers are like anything else they cost alot to have the lesson[/quote]

Agreed, i have a lesson once a fortnight. It would help even to have one a month. Its getting another perspectice that counts as I find this really helpfull. From knowing absolutely nothing a year ago about technique and now my beginnings in improv, I found lessons really helpfull.
I started from about a year of teaching myself and pretty much nothing else.