Fingers!

[faceman]

Afternoon all,

After a standard 2 hour band practise today, I noticed my fingers are now in a shocking state. The skin on my index and middle fingers on my left hand are pretty bad, with the top layer of skin leaving a hole on the index finger while my right hand was in agony. The middle and index fingers are bruised, dirty and generally hurting when they contact anything!

I've been playing bass since February 2007 and I just don't understand how at this point they have gotten so bad. Just using my laptop now with my right hand is uncomfortable. It's bloody annoying because I need to keep practising for a big upcoming gig but it's so painful using my right hand that I have to use thumb and pick, both of which aren't ideal for some rhythms.,

One immediate thought is strings but they are standard D'Addorios roundwounds that I have been using for years so I'm not sure if is this? Playing style? Size of the frets?

Honestly, I get very tired of my 4003 sometimes. The ergonomics are ridiculous and it can be so painful to play. Even reaching for an octave on a note can be pretty bad - the chorus of one of our songs does this and I can barely keep it up because my third finger can't reach very well and my pink isn't strong enough. There are so days I long for the neck of my Daryl Jones again!

Seb

[Sarah5string]

Could be a nickel allergy?

[Sarah5string]

Do you use anything on your strings? Fastfret etc?

[Bass-ic]

[quote name='Sarah5string' post='725355' date='Jan 26 2010, 04:13 PM']Do you use anything on your strings? Fastfret etc?[/quote]

wassat, a quick panic?

oops sorry.

[Cat Burrito]

Sounds to me like you'd be wise to consider medical advice. If the bass is a pig to play, change it. I had a beautiful Jazz bass that gave me shooting pains up my left arm. I got rid of it and have never had a problem since. Are you used to playing reguarly? Do you warm up? It's difficult to know what to say based on what you have said i.e. without seeing your injury and knowing more background

[Sarah5string]

[quote name='Bass-ic' post='725358' date='Jan 26 2010, 04:15 PM']wassat, a quick panic?

oops sorry.

[/quote]
I shouldn't admit this.. but I properly LOL'd at that

[OutToPlayJazz]

Make sure the action on your bass isn't too high. That's the first thing I'd be checking. Generally, the more you play the harder your fingertips should get and become more resistant to the damage. Perhaps Sarah's comment on allergies is correct.

The other thing I noticed about your post was your mention of octaves. Keep the index finger on the lower note and take 2,3 & 4 up for the upper note. That way your hand is strongest and at it's most organised.

Rich.

[Bass-ic]

[quote name='Sarah5string' post='725360' date='Jan 26 2010, 04:17 PM']I shouldn't admit this.. but I properly LOL'd at that [/quote]

[Doddy]

[quote name='faceman' post='725340' date='Jan 26 2010, 04:08 PM']Honestly, I get very tired of my 4003 sometimes. The ergonomics are ridiculous and it can be so painful to play. Even reaching for an octave on a note can be pretty bad - the chorus of one of our songs does this and I can barely keep it up because my third finger can't reach very well and my pink isn't strong enough. There are so days I long for the neck of my Daryl Jones again!

Seb[/quote]

I'm assuming you are referring to the left hand here?
If so,I'm guessing that it may be a technique issue. I just looked at your bands myspace,and in nearly all the pics,you have your
thumb over the top of the neck,which makes it harder to reach the notes.Try bringing your thumb down to the middle of the
neck,opposite your middle finger.This should put your hand in a better position and allow you more facility over the 'board.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Doddy

[Sarah5string]

[quote name='Doddy' post='725372' date='Jan 26 2010, 04:24 PM']I'm assuming you are referring to the left hand here?
If so,I'm guessing that it may be a technique issue. I just looked at your bands myspace,and in nearly all the pics,you have your
thumb over the top of the neck,which makes it harder to reach the notes.Try bringing your thumb down to the middle of the
neck,opposite your middle finger.This should put your hand in a better position and allow you more facility over the 'board.[/quote]
Good spot!

[Doddy]

[quote name='Sarah5string' post='725376' date='Jan 26 2010, 04:26 PM']Good spot![/quote]

Thank you.

[faceman]

Thanks for all the comments guys, I will obviously try new strings but I've never had this problem before with my old Lakland or even my other Rickenbacker for that matter! I've attached a picture and I've adjusted my playing style to try and combat this issue. I have the bass higher on my body and replaced the clunky thing with a Pickguardian pickup so I know either play over the bridge pickup or just below the neck pickup. I agree that playing near the bridge is harder on the fingers, hence why I made the adjustments. I'm tempted to take the 4003 to be set up properly with new strings and adjusted action that might relieve the problem.

The Rickenbacker was a present a deceased-family member so I have very mixed feelings about. I'd love to swap it in a moment for something more comfortable but it has a lot of continental value, plus it looks the dogs bollocks. Any thoughts of swapping/selling make me feel guilty but then the pain my fingers are in at the moment isn't good!

[faceman]

Plus you can see in that photo I have quite small fingers the the 'massive neck' of the Rickenbacker makes it hard work, but you get back in tone the effort you put in, i suppose

Also Rich, this is what I always do. For example in the song I was mentioning, I play the D on the A string with my first finger and the octave with 3 or 4. 2 is too much of a stretch, 3 is a stretch and 4 is painful!

And to add some information BurritoBass, I play in practises twice a week and usually noodle for 15 minutes once a day. I've been playing for nearly three years, although I haven't been become a decent player until the last year or so. My technique in the past was shocking until one day I just fell into something natural! I usually play finger style towards the bridge of the bass, and usually rest my arm on the bass, see the photo above. Anything else that might help?

Back in the day, my hands were obviously blistered a lot because I wasn't used to it but when I become more competent at playing, they gotten used to it and it's only the past few weeks the problem has arisen again. This could also be fact I've been playing my 4003 again, as it has been relegated for a while...

Edited January 26, 2010 by faceman

[Huw Foster]

Seconded on the comments about technique. It took me years to realise how uneconomical my left hand technique was - in fact it wasn't until I had my first formal lessons at university that I really started to think about it.

I also have quite small hands, but even on the biggest of necks you should be able to manage with some adjustments to your thumb positioning. Some basic rules of thumb (pun intended) I find useful include positioning my thumb on the back of the neck, ensuring that my fingers are generally evenly spaced and that none of them are ever far away from the strings when not in use.

Maybe some before and after shots will help in illustrating this?

Before:
[attachment=41222:n5043027...927_9840.jpg]


After:
[attachment=41223:Photo_on...at_18.59.jpg]

Generally speaking, I find that using the thumb as an anchor (rather than the 'talon' in a claw) minimises overall effort in fretting with the left hand, as well as freeing up the little finger. I noticed from the pictures on your myspace that you don't use it much - I was exactly the same for years, until I realised how invaluable it is for octaves and the like. In fact, I'm fairly certain my index and little fingers are the most frequently used on my left hand... I don't actually think about this when I'm playing, but judging from calluses and the quick noodle about I just had, I think this is a correct observation!

(I must also stress that I don't think any fretting method is 'wrong' as such - depending on the context, it sometimes works better having the thumb over the top of the neck. An example off the top of my head would be bluesy, chord-based stuff a la Colin Hodgkinson.)

Anyway, I'm rambling. Hopefully I'm making sense! Sorry if this is stating the obvious for most people - I'm fairly certain this is taught as standard in most books etc. I also apologise if I come across as patronising/pretentious/both.

If this isn't the solution to your problem, then perhaps you need to adjust your string gauge and action to reduce the strain?

[jezzaboy]

Definatley a bass guitar problem, which I can resolve by giving you £50 for your Rickenbacker!

That`s my biggest downfall, always thinking of other people.

Jez

[Doddy]

The 'massive' neck of the Ric shouldn't hinder you too much if you have your technique sorted
out. From looking at your new pic,your left hand is still in a pretty awkward position which will be
where the trouble will be coming from. Like I said earlier,try placing your thumb in the middle of the
neck opposite your middle finger,but don't grip the neck.You should be able to finger the notes even if
you lift your thumb off the back of the neck. It may feel unnatural at first,but it will be beneficial in the long run.
As far as your right hand-are you plucking quite hard? Try to lighten up your picking and increase the
volume on your amp. Also try not to rest your arm on the bass if you can help it,as it can restrict the
blood flow to your hand.

[Delberthot]

[quote name='faceman' post='725520' date='Jan 26 2010, 06:03 PM']The Rickenbacker was a present a deceased-family member so I have very mixed feelings about. I'd love to swap it in a moment for something more comfortable but it has a lot of [b][color="#FF0000"]continental value[/color][/b], plus it looks the dogs bollocks. Any thoughts of swapping/selling make me feel guilty but then the pain my fingers are in at the moment isn't good![/quote]


Those crazy French.


Sorry, I know exactly what you mean. I had an absolutely cracking Rick 4003BB but after a night of playing it, I felt like I had arthritis. One of a small handful of basses I've hated having to sell.

[4000]

At the risk of stating the obvious I'm sure the bass isn't the issue with regards to the blistering, although the setup may be. As you've used the strings on your other basses with no problems it sounds like an action issue. Get the bass set up asap. As for the other ergonomic issues, if it's not comfortable, don't use it. That's one of the reasons I generally can't use basses with forearm contours (and ironically find Ricks really comfortable). The bass that absolutely kills me is the classic Status shape. FWIW, Ricks have different neck sizes depending on year, so it looks like you unfortunately got one of the big ones and it doesn't suit you.

[faceman]

Thanks for the advice guys, I'm seriously considering a proper setup (any recommendations for anyone in the NE?) and some new strings. The thing with the Ric is, that I always want to play it, it's like I have a bond or something stupid like that. I think it's the 'one' for me, just a few big kinks need ironing out

With much difficulty, I managed to photography my fingers and you can see the shoddy state of my fingers. They simply seem to be big blisters - is this caused simply by string type or can this be affected by action/technique?

I've been noodling just now with a better left hand technique. It feels weird now but I think I can grow into it. The joys of no formal bass education!

FYI - First picture is left hand, second is right.

Edited January 27, 2010 by faceman

[Cat Burrito]

For some reason I took this to be your right hand and not your left hand despite you clearly stating so ignore my last post. I haven't mixed up left and right this bad since infant school! Don't know why that happened

[thisnameistaken]

Looking at those blisters on your picking hand, I used to get those when I was younger and picked down by the bridge. It wasn't until much later that I realised I picked down by the bridge because I was picking too hard to pick anywhere else - the strings would just flail around if I didn't pick where they were very taut. And I was only picking that hard in the first place because I couldn't hear myself properly.

Turn yourself up - or stay near your amp where you can hear yourself clearly - for a whole rehearsal and see how your fingers feel after that.

As for your fretting hand, I've never had (or seen) anything like that. I would be guessing the same as Sarah that maybe the alloy in your strings doesn't agree with your skin. Try pure steel strings and see if that makes any difference.

[4000]

That left hand thing is weird. It could be as Sarah states, but as you've used the same strings before on other basses with no effect it's a bit baffling. I'd maybe try a setup with different strings (try stainless) for a start.

[xilddx]

Your fingers look pure and fresh, unsullied by the calluses I would expect from a bass player. If I was an ancient Greek I would have you perfumed and sent to my room.

I think you should play more, an hour or two of hard playing/practicing everyday on the Ric. That should have you fully manned up within a couple of weeks.

[Marvin]

[quote name='silddx' post='726330' date='Jan 27 2010, 01:59 PM']Your fingers look pure and fresh, unsullied by the calluses I would expect from a bass player. If I was an ancient Greek I would have you perfumed and sent to my room.

I think you should play more, an hour or two of hard playing/practicing everyday on the Ric. That should have you fully manned up within a couple of weeks.[/quote]

You flirt you.

Definite need to build up some calluses. I haven't played properly for about 2 months now so mine are gradually disappearing. Don't seem to stay as long as they used to I would have thought it would have been the other way around: older=callus stays longer. But not it would seem.

[Sonic_Groove]

[quote name='Marvin' post='726353' date='Jan 27 2010, 02:14 PM']Definite need to build up some calluses. I haven't played properly for about 2 months now so mine are gradually disappearing. Don't seem to stay as long as they used to I would have thought it would have been the other way around: older=callus stays longer. But not it would seem.[/quote]

+ 2

Build calluses. In the old days (when I were a lad!!! LOL) we used to rub surgical spirit on the ends of our finger to help harden them!

In them days strings were barbed-wire and action was what you got at the weekend!

B