Ebay payment query

[Robin UK]

Sorry, i assume i'm being stupid, but i just one a bass on ebay and paid for it, then the seller sent me the following reply:

"Hey there is there any chance you could leave me some good feedback so the money is released for the bass then i can get it sent tomorrow... im going away next week you see and i need to process the payment into my bank account."

I've never come across this before. Should i be suspicious? I only worry as he's only been an ebay member since the 14th of january, and his only feedback says "awaiting delivery" or something similar, which makes me worry slightly. Hopefully just being stupid though as i want the bass.

Thanks,

Robin

[Mykesbass]

You should never be asked for feedback until you have received the goods - this should set your alarm bells ringing - check all the safety/fraud stuff on ebay and get an e mail off to them a.s.a.p. Did you use Paypal?

[josh3184]

had something similar recently. Think the rules in Ebay have changed so that the only way the paypal payment clears now is when positive feedback is left. At least thats what I'm infering from a few similar emails I got. Might not be a scam but in these instances I'd always er on the side of caution. If you paid with papal they always seem to side with buyers so if it does go tits up you should be alright.
This is all going by my experience so YMMV

[lemmywinks]

Don't do it, wait until you have the bass before leaving feedback. If you don't you'll have no comeback on it as you have already said you are happy with it

I had someone actually say they couldn't afford to post an item unless i left feedback and the money went through

Sounds dodgy, play it safe

[Rockbassix]

Since Paypal started holding the cash for 21 days or until feedback is left i've heard of a few people getting similar emails.

Even after feedback was left for my sale it took 5 days for Paypal to release my cash.

I wouldn't be too keen to leave feedback before i got the bass.
.
You could try sending the other buyer a message and see if their stuff ever turned up!

[Cat Burrito]

[quote name='Mykesbass' post='727127' date='Jan 27 2010, 11:50 PM']You should never be asked for feedback until you have received the goods - this should set your alarm bells ringing - check all the safety/fraud stuff on ebay and get an e mail off to them a.s.a.p. Did you use Paypal?[/quote]

100% agree. Might be genuine but this is not how it works.

[robocorpse]

Unfortunately, this IS genuine.
Paypals draconian new rules mean that sellers (again) are automatically in the wrong until they have a certain number of transactions under their belts, and yes, they do hold funds from the seller until positive feedback is left, or several weeks have passed without any claims being made against the seller. This means until you leave feedback, or let weeks pass, the seller will NOT receive any money from the transaction. Paypal protecting the buyer at the cost of the sellers rights, as usual. GO FOR CASH IN HAND EVERY TIME!

[garethox]

[quote name='robocorpse' post='727179' date='Jan 28 2010, 12:58 AM']Unfortunately, this IS genuine.
Paypals draconian new rules mean that sellers (again) are automatically in the wrong until they have a certain number of transactions under their belts, and yes, they do hold funds from the seller until positive feedback is left, or several weeks have passed without any claims being made against the seller. This means until you leave feedback, or let weeks pass, the seller will NOT receive any money from the transaction. Paypal protecting the buyer at the cost of the sellers rights, as usual. GO FOR CASH IN HAND EVERY TIME![/quote]

They have shot themselves in the foot.... who in their right mind would send an item to a stranger without getting the money first? And that stranger can put a claim in against you, and eBay will immediately debit your account and give the buyer their money back! And who would leave feedback before receiving said item? Idiots.....

Also you CANNOT advertise an item on eBay without offering Paypal as an option. I did and got an email telling me I had to offer it or they'd pull the ad. Idiots.....

I agree try to get cash, but buyers are so over protected now that to not use Paypal doesn't make sense. BTW don't eBay own Paypal or have a major interest in it? They get to charge the seller about three times for selling an item!

[oldslapper]

I got stung on an amp last year (before new rules probably), seller begged for positive feedback. So against my better judgement I gave +ve feedback when I recieved the amp, and it turned out to be a crock, never again.

I hadn't realised the rules had changed......that sucks.

Hope it gets sorted, do you have an email address, other than his ebay one? You might be able to get some confirmation in writing from him, by way of evidence outside of ebay, that could be used if things aren't what they seem?

Generally though, most people are pretty genuine, so it's probably ok. But cover your butt in as many ways as possible (in a metaphorical way of course).

[Mykesbass]

Have a look here and click on the some examples - this outlaws exactly what your seller is asking you to do. Report them!

[url="http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/feedback-extortion.html"]http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/feed...-extortion.html[/url]

[john_the_bass]

[quote name='josh3184' post='727131' date='Jan 27 2010, 11:52 PM']Think the rules in Ebay have changed so that the only way the paypal payment clears now is when positive feedback is left.[/quote]

WHAT???


[quote name='Lostheplot' post='727162' date='Jan 28 2010, 12:32 AM']Since Paypal started holding the cash for 21 days or until feedback is left i've heard of a few people getting similar emails.[/quote]

[b][size=5]WHAT???[/size][/b]

[quote name='robocorpse' post='727179' date='Jan 28 2010, 12:58 AM']Paypals draconian new rules mean that sellers (again) are automatically in the wrong until they have a certain number of transactions under their belts, and yes, they do hold funds from the seller until positive feedback is left, or several weeks have passed without any claims being made against the seller. This means until you leave feedback, or let weeks pass, the seller will NOT receive any money from the transaction. Paypal protecting the buyer at the cost of the sellers rights, as usual.[/quote]

[b][size=7]WHAT???[/size][/b]

How bloody ridiculous!! I have sold stuff on ebay in the past and never received any feedback for it - if I had to wait 21 days for a payment to be released to my bank account, that could cause some serious problems. Unfortunately the "How can I withdraw money from PayPal?" and "Withdrawing money from your PayPal account" links on the ebay help pages don't seem to work and there don't seem to be any replacements. Very effing helpful of them - thank you ebay.

A quick Google search reveals this - [url="http://timheuer.com/blog/archive/2009/01/09/paypal-screws-sellers-by-holding-payments.aspx"]http://timheuer.com/blog/archive/2009/01/0...g-payments.aspx[/url] - most of it is just filler, but there is a section that details the reasons why a payment would be on hold. This bothers me because, despite having a feedback score of 394, all positive, I don't have any Detailed Seller Rating. I sincerely hope that I am unfortunate enough to receive a Paypal payment in future, it's not held because the DSR is a factor.

Edited January 28, 2010 by john_the_bass

[JakeBrownBass]

[quote name='lemmywinks' post='727139' date='Jan 27 2010, 11:56 PM']I had someone actually say they couldn't afford to post an item unless i left feedback and the money went through[/quote]

I've been one of those people before mate. I've sold things just to get through the month, so when paypal holds the money you then have no money to send the item with.

Now the holding of the money i'm not to fussed about tbh, but hold the money the buyers paid for postage, thats a joke!

When this happened to me i called paypal and basically said wtf are you doing, i need the money to post the item! Got sorted pretty quickly after that!

Jake

[thepurpleblob]

This is nuts. From your point of view, I would never give positive feedback until I have got the goods. From the sellers point of view, I would never release the goods until the money is in my bank account. Stalemate.

Ebay is going right down the toilet

[thepurpleblob]

There's quite a measured article about it here..... [url="http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1088081/new_ebay_and_paypal_hold_policy_making.html?cat=15"]http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1...ing.html?cat=15[/url]

....although it's all over the web complaining about it.

[redstriper]

As I understand it, Paypal only holds back payments from 'risky' sellers, so it can offer buyers a refund if they are not happy with the item, in accordance with distance selling rules.
Such sellers can access their funds as soon as the buyer has received the item and indicated their satisfaction by leaving positive feedback.
The payment will only be refunded after the item has been returned to the seller in original condition and to the seller's satisfaction.
It means that the seller has to pay postage costs before receiving payment, but it gives both buyer and seller protection from fraud.

Here's the explanation from paypal -

We're committed to providing the fastest, safest payment service on the planet. To keep ourselves on track, we’ll occasionally hold back payments from certain sellers to ensure that their buyers are completely satisfied.

We know this can be a frustrating experience and apologise for the inconvenience; however by doing this, we can keep our prices low by repelling fraudsters who aim to spoil the PayPal service.

Payment Holds
A payment hold is when we take a single payment that you’ve received and set it aside while we make sure that your customers are satisfied. The funds for payments received are held temporarily as a pending balance in your account, and released at the end of 21 days. The funds may be released early if PayPal determines that the transaction has been fulfilled and your customers are satisfied.

PayPal holds payments to ensure that sellers have sufficient funds in their account if a customer files a dispute or chargeback.

Holds may also be placed on your account if:

You have a high rate of customer disputes or low eBay feedback
You have been an eBay and PayPal member for less than 6 months, and have limited selling activity
You have an eBay feedback score of less than 100 and do not have a record of good performance
You’re selling on eBay and have a low Detailed Seller Rating (4.5 or below)
You happen to be selling in a high risk category such as tickets, travel, gift vouchers, computers, electronics or mobile phones
You have a sudden change in selling activities
PayPal will also hold funds for transactions where the buyer has raised a dispute, claim or chargeback.

Your funds will immediately be released when one of the following occurs:

The buyer leaves you positive feedback (eBay items only)
21 days pass without a dispute, claim, chargeback, or reversal filed on the transaction
Your buyer confirms delivery of the item via your postal tracking number

We know it’s frustrating to not have full access to your money, but there are a few things you can do to reduce the likelihood of experiencing a 21 day payment hold:

Post your items with trackable postage such as Royal Mail Recorded Delivery or Special Delivery
Post your orders right away and communicate early and often with your buyer
Leave feedback for your buyers and encourage them to do the same (eBay items only)
Ensure the item is well packaged, secure and sent to the correct address

A reserve is an amount of your overall monthly payments that we’ll set aside and release at a later date. Reserves are imposed upon a fraction of large sellers who haven’t built up a history of good performance yet or who may suddenly find themselves struggling financially.

Every reserve is different, but if a reserve is applied to your account, you’ll always have the terms of that reserve clearly explained to you by PayPal.

[thepurpleblob]

....but from what I've been reading PayPal seems to apply quite a wide definition of "risky"

[whimsy23]

Hmm not heard of this and in the last week I've sold nearly 30 things on ebay - only 3 people have left me feedback so far and I've just transferred a large amount of money from my Paypal account to my bank account.

[MB1]

MB1.
If you havent recieved the item....how can you leave feedback for it?.......No Item/No Feedback!
"if you dont eat your meat?.....how can you have any pudding?.....If you dont eat your pudding?.... how can you have any meat?"(Pink Floyd/The Wall)

[Mr. Foxen]

Should I ever list anything on ebay, I shall be noting this stuff in my listing, such as I will not post until funds have cleared into my bank account etc.

More likely I just won't use ebay though.

[Guest johnzgerman]

so now they keep several million payments on hold for 3 weeks or until positive feedback is left and make a quite a few extra squid for themselves in interest payments, sweet.

[vmaxblues]

My recent ebay/paypal experience:

1) Sell 5 string bass on ebay
2) Buyer pays
3) I send bass
4) Buyer complains about bass, he has tuned it up 3 frets higher than normal and the neck has bent!
5) Paypal take funds off me (purchase price)
6) I request bass back
7) On return, bass has been buggered by idiot tuning it way beyond manufacturers recommendations and knackered neck.
8) Paypal refund seller
9) I appeal decision having done nothing wrong, buyer has wrecked bass
10) Paypal looks into appeal
11) Paypal say the buyer mentioned bent neck in his complaint and even though he had caused it....
12) Paypal refunds seller

I am now seriously considering never using ebay again, it is expensive and as a seller you are totally unprotected.

[bassbloke]

There's a lesson here. Always read the T&Cs. Ebay are quite open about their new policy, so the seller should have factored the need into set enough money aside to post.

This is further proof that eBay is courting businesses rather than individuals - everything indicates that they're trying to attract the higher volume, lower margin sellers and withholding funds until feedback is received/21 days is really no difference to payment on invoice. In this case, Ebay win twice though - they pocket the interest on the funds they've held and charge higher final value fees. IIRC, they've removed some of the penalties on buy it now.

[Sarah5string]

another reason I've stopped using ebay....

[Rockbassix]

I love Paypals attitude of protecting the buyer stuff the seller!

I got scammed a couple of years ago along with 45 other people by one buyer. The guy bought stuff left positive feedback when he got it so we all left positive feedback for him.

3 months later i got an email from Paypal telling me they were witholding my funds and i had to find proof of postage for the item as the owner of the credit card had not authorised the transaction. I always kept the reciept for sending stuff till the 45 days for Paypal claims are past just incase but at the time i was selling quite a bit so had ditched older receipts so Paypal refunded the cash to the card holder. The fact that the guy had left positive feedback for recieving the item was not proof that i had sent it.

What i don't understand is if it was a stolen credit card what difference did it make if i had proof that i'd sent the item if it had been sent to somebody who didn't have permission to use the card.

Another seller who had been conned by the same buyer got in touch with everybody who had sold stuff to this guy and they had all had the same problem although some of them had the receipt and got to keep their cash. We had all sent stuff to the same address a search on the net found that the card holder stayed at that address but neither Paypal,Ebay or the Police would do anything to help.

I wasn't too bad i lost £20 but others had lost upto £160 so much for Paypal being a safe way to take payments online.

If you do sell on Ebay keep hold of the postage receipt even after the 45 day Paypal claim deadline as apparently it doesn't matter if you sent it to a thief with a dodgy card as long as you prove you sent it i'm still trying to make sense of that!

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

I look at fleabay,every couple of days. I was fairly addicted at one time. Over the last say,20 months
I have noticed fewer bass related items listed(proper kubicki's steinberger,schecter etc)
if there are things of interest,they seem more expensive.
The way things are sold now are a complete pain in the kyber pass!
Too much red tape for the seller,and more cotton wool for the buyers.

Last transaction I had ,involved me selling 2 concert tkts.
Couldn't understand why I had to wait for payment. Of course,I know now.

I try to avoid selling completely on there If I can