Sue Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Hi there, Being fairly new to bass playing (and very new to basschat), I know the importance of the connection between the drummer and the bass player, but what I am most interested in is how you get that real synergy between you - that kind of organic feel? What's the secret? Thanks Sue Quote
bigjohn Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 It's just a matter of getting a feel for how each other play, and where each of you likes to put accents and emphasis. First thing though is to get tight on that bass drum. I find the sooner I get that with a drummer, the quicker everything else follows on. Quote
Bilbo Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 To get it good, you have to practice. TO get it great - noone knows. That's why its so great when it happens. One thing that is important, however, is your respective sounds. A poorly chosen ride cymbal can kill your bass sound. A great one can lift it and let it fly. Quote
dub Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 If you jam together a lot (hours at a time) with just the two of you you can start to predict what each other are doing. Just play what you feel like and listen to each other and don't stop. Take fills of 8 each then 4 then two then one. Lock into the groove go away from it come back, change key. You can also come up with some great grooves this way. If you don't know where to start just start with something you know and develop it into something else. If you want to, you can try some classic rhythm section stuff from bootsty and beyond but you don't have to try and replicate it exactly just have fun with it. Quote
dannybuoy Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Also, sway your body or tap your feet in time with the beat instead of standing there like a breadstick. Your body will get locked into the rhythm and your fingers will follow! Quote
bigjohn Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='728902' date='Jan 29 2010, 04:38 PM']One thing that is important, however, is your respective sounds. A poorly chosen ride cymbal can kill your bass sound. A great one can lift it and let it fly.[/quote] I agree. "Bad" cymbals are awful hateful things. It's surprising how many musicians completely forget (or don't understand) anything about frequencies and leaving space for others to occupy them (or not). Quote
wateroftyne Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 What's been said up there ^^^^ Also, one of the signs of a really good rhythm sections is what they DON'T play.... a little expectant gap here and there can be a great thing. Quote
Sue Posted January 29, 2010 Author Posted January 29, 2010 Interesting... just to come back on a couple of comments, I am quite happy not to stand still - in fact it's hard for me not to wriggle about a bit! The thought of spending hours alone with our drummer fills me with dread - on a personal level, we are not a match made in heaven you might say... Quote
Cat Burrito Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Welcome Sue - For me it's pretty much as has been said. Play together, get to know how each other play and talk about it too. Have fun with it as well! Quote
Pete Academy Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 I've always locked with the bass drum. However, one drummer advised me to listen to the hi-hat instead. He was dead right. That's where the groove is. Quote
Doddy Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 [quote name='Sue' post='728980' date='Jan 29 2010, 05:40 PM']Interesting... just to come back on a couple of comments, I am quite happy not to stand still - in fact it's hard for me not to wriggle about a bit! The thought of spending hours alone with our drummer fills me with dread - on a personal level, we are not a match made in heaven you might say...[/quote] You don't have to spend hours practising together to get a tight groove. If you work together regularly you get an idea of how each other plays,but when you play with someone new take a few bars to sit back and listen without playing.Listen to where they place the beat and the slight inflections in their hi-hats. Everyone has their own sense of groove,it's just a matter of listening and finding your place where you both meet. Quote
Pete Academy Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Taking in a few bars sometimes helps, too. Especially in Leek. Quote
Pete Academy Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Reminds me of that old chestnut: What's the difference between a drummer and a bass player? About half a beat. Quote
fatback Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Well, for a start, you [i]both[/i] have to be listening. fatback Quote
dub Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Sue' post='728980' date='Jan 29 2010, 05:40 PM']Interesting... just to come back on a couple of comments, I am quite happy not to stand still - in fact it's hard for me not to wriggle about a bit! The thought of spending hours alone with our drummer fills me with dread - on a personal level, we are not a match made in heaven you might say...[/quote] I guess practicing for hours together isn't always possible. It's better if it is a two way street as far as listening to each other. Sometimes you just have to watch them. When it's a noisy room and hard to hear anything it's good to watch the hihat. A great thing to do is practice everything with a drum machine. Any cheap drum machine will do as long as you like the sounds. Find the tempo that you would normally play something in your set, then half it and practice it at that slow speed until you feel you are really on every note. Take a break have a cup of tea then try it at normal tempo and you should find that you are really locked into the groove. You can practice anything using this method and it will really improve your timing, you might not notice the results straight away but if you keep it up after a few days you will really start to lock in on the groove. If you really want to find out what is going on with your playing then record yourself with the drum machine and listen back and you can figure out if you are ahead or behind the beat and put the notes where you want them to be. You can break up the slow practice with a bit of improvising with the drum machine if you find that you are starting to lose concentration. Edited February 1, 2010 by dub Quote
chris_b Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 [quote]....Bass and drum synergy - what's the secret?....[/quote] Ears and empathy. A good rhythm section is like twins. You have to be on the same wavelength. You're both playing different parts of the same thing, so make it flow and make it fit. And +1 to the drummer doing the same thing back. Quote
Telebass Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 And another +1 to getting that hi-hat into your ears. Not always possible in a pub band setting, but if you're lucky enough to be able to get a custom monitor mix, make sure the hi-hat is there, and try to stand on that side of the kit if you can. The bass drum is tghe lock, but the hi-hat can be the groove and accent part. Quote
Marvin Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 (edited) The hi-hat is the only thing I can hear from the drummer I've been jamming with lately. But I think has more to do with the acoustics of the soundproofed garage we've been wasting hours in [attachment=41685:images.jpeg] Or you could get one of these, far less temperamental Edited February 2, 2010 by Marvin Quote
xilddx Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 It's just magic and familiarity really. Depends on what sort of music you play and how much you are into drums and the dynamics of the music. I can second guess the fills and accents of one of the drummers I play with and follow them with the bass. But I've been playing on and off with him for over ten years. Also, I spent years programming drums, I love drum tutorial vids, and I play drums a little bit, it all helps. In the end, there's no secret. In fact there's no rule about playing WITH the drums at all. I often write lines that follow the vocal. Down to taste in the end I suppose, what's best for the song. Quote
xilddx Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='728953' date='Jan 29 2010, 05:23 PM']Also, one of the signs of a really good rhythm sections is what they DON'T play.... a little expectant gap here and there can be a great thing.[/quote] Bang on. Quote
simon1964 Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 Good tips above. For me, another important factor is watching the drummer, not just listening. Quote
Conan Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 I think it is easier if the drummer and bass player get along on a personal level, but its by no means essential! I've played with drummers who I have had no personal time for, but we have gelled well - and another guy who is a great mate, but I just can't get into the way he plays! It's really frustrating, and maybe it just needs more practice - but I do believe that there is a "compatability" thing here sometimes. Maybe he's just not "my type"!! Quote
Marvin Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='silddx' post='732913' date='Feb 2 2010, 01:37 PM']Bang on.[/quote] That's a terrible pun Quote
Sue Posted February 4, 2010 Author Posted February 4, 2010 Many thanks for all the posts, there have been some really thought provoking comments. Looks like I've got to find that elusive groove. Sue Quote
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