Programmable rig - ideas and suggestions please

[Bassmanc]

Hi,
Many years ago I was regularly gigging with a selection of basses that all had very different eq and sound dynamics. Over the years I built a programmable rack system based around a TC electronics 1128 programmable graphic pre-amp.

This was a great choice as it had programmable input gain and output levels so I could tailor by bass sound for each instrument before it went through the rest of my system. I also had a studiomaster programmable compressor and some effects that I'd had rack mounted followed by a trace elliot GP11 (which was just there in case I had to make quick hands on adjustments without having to try to re-program my patches live on stage!)

Last year I was dragged out of semi-retirement to reform the old band and I decided to downsize. I bought a Line Pro XT rack mount pod (the guitar version but with all the bass models loaded). I can get some great sounds from this - but it doesn't have a programmable input gain and so I find that my basses drive it at very different levels and the compressor doesn't work properly as a result. I've also found that the level getting to my power amp is about half what I had using the TC straight through - even if I bypass the Pod settings and go straight through - (presumably just an issue with the preset input gain)

I've therefore taken to putting the TC pre-amp in front of the Line 6 and running the pod at line level, but here lies the problem....

The TC seems to have developed a fault and randomly switches to preset 1 by itself. I'm still looking to find anywhere that can service it - but I anticipate that even if they could repair it I will be without it for a while and I'm struggling to manage without it (even just on one preset)

So I'm now wondering if I should just get a new pre-amp - or multi effects unit that can replace the whole lot.

So a long intro - but if you know of a high quality multi effects unit with programmable EQ AND input gain level, then please reply.

If you own such a thing and can personally recommend it then that would be even better!

Thanks for reading!

[Bassmanc]

PS....

Here are some pics of the rig (and me) in action at a soundcheck.

There are two Berg 1z12s and an Epifani 2x10 powered with 750w per side.
The basses in shot are my Sei Flamboyant custom 6 and a Kawai 4 string

[attachment=41610:DSCF8946.JPG]
[attachment=41611:DSCF8960.JPG]

[Dood]

Woh! Welcome to my world!! I think we'll probably be chatting some more about this thread offline!

I have a similar 'method' to my bass gear too. I've always been a big fan of TC Electronic rack gear. At the moment I am running the C300 multiband compressor into a G Major 2. In the past I ran a Triple-C into my old GForce rack. I control as much as I can via MIDI - or use the external controllers on the GMajor to switch devices (such as amp channels or effects pedals)

Therefore my recommendation, to be able control your compression, input levels and EQ (along with effects) would defintely be the GMajor 2 if you need external switching - or if you can pick one up cheap, the GForce. It may be an older effects unit now - but they still wee all over the competition in the majority of cases. It really didn't surprise me that the TC RH450 was such a hit - TC make great well thought out gear I feel.

Oh! and on the subject of the TC - I asked them if they would release a 1u preamp version of the RH450 - which I think, for you and me would pretty much be the perfect compliment to our gear!

I digress - back to your question! My G Major 2 provides all of my EQ, shaping and additional compression along with effects. Individual patches are selected using a roland foot controller - (or could be externally sequenced - but thats for another day.) The C300 is currently a 'set and leave' all capturing compression just to tidy things up. - I own a line6 X3 - and as much as I love recording with it - I keep coming back to my TC rack instead.

p.s. I didnt even know that the 1128 existed! - I've just managed to locate my old Alesis programmeable EQ - and hopefully it's coming back home soon- it seems to pretty much do the same as the 1128 minus the extras. So I'm pretty happy about that!

Dood.

[Bassmanc]

Dood,

Thanks for the reply and info - I'm a little out of touch with gear updates since the band were active back in the 90s - so I'm playing catch up a bit.

I will check out the GForce/G Major and see what it does. The 1128 is an awesome peice of kit - completely studio quality - noiseless and with loads of clever bits (like a room eq measuring system with white noise (that it generates itself) and also a feedback kill facility - great for acoustic instrument miking. But for me it was the ability to switch effortlessly from my active 6 string to the passive (and microphonic) chapman stick live on stage with no need to turn around and start fiddling with knobs and dials. I don't know why it's been discontinued - used to be a time that every studio in the land had one!

However, it doesn't have a dedicated footswitch - so I've been using a "Ground Control" - which is a brilliant footpedal controller with a huge clear display. It links via a powered midi cable back to a single u rack unit that then distributes patch change info to the rest of the rack and has an 8x8 programmable effects loop matrix for outboard gear.

I also have a couple of mega rare TC footpedal phasers (one for guitar, the other bass/keyboard - the difference being that they phase different frequencies). I have the guitar one rackmounted but the other is still a footpedal. I've never found anything that makes the same sound and they're an integral part of my stick sound now, but if TC have an all singing all dancing rack mount unit that can mimmick them I'd be sold!

Where abouts are you based? - I looked up predator country in google and it thinks I'm looking for Toxteth!

Edited February 1, 2010 by Bassmanc

[Dood]

Infact, cut to the chase - why not just go for the TC Electronic RH450 head? My bass cabinets are active and therefore I don't need an amplifer as such - but if I were using passive cabinets still, then the RH450 would be a no brainer. (Dan now wonders why he sold his Epifani UL-610!!!)

[basshead56]

Have you considered the Ampeg B500 Dr programmable head?
Four channels (all FSW-selectable), two inputs (meaning not having to change cables-leave two plugged in)
Its a great amp. 500watts into 2ohms. and all in a handy 2U rack unit.
and it's the last US designed and built Ampeg (aside from the new Heritage models)
Didn't like the idea of a digital Ampeg initially, but can't recommend it highly enough!

[Dood]

[quote name='Bassmanc' post='731783' date='Feb 1 2010, 02:55 PM']Dood,

Thanks for the reply and info - I'm a little out of touch with gear updates since the band were active back in the 90s - so I'm playing catch up a bit.

I will check out the GForce/G Major and see what it does. The 1128 is an awesome peice of kit - completely studio quality - noiseless and with loads of clever bits (like a room eq measuring system with white noise (that it generates itself) and also a feedback kill facility - great for acoustic instrument miking. But for me it was the ability to switch effortlessly from my active 6 string to the passive (and microphonic) chapman stick live on stage with no need to turn around and start fiddling with knobs and dials. I don't know why it's been discontinued - used to be a time that every studio in the land had one!

However, it doesn't have a dedicated footswitch - so I've been using a "Ground Control" - which is a brilliant footpedal controller with a huge clear display. It links via a powered midi cable back to a single u rack unit that then distributes patch change info to the rest of the rack and has an 8x8 programmable effects loop matrix for outboard gear.

I also have a couple of mega rare TC footpedal phasers (one for guitar, the other bass/keyboard - the difference being that they phase different frequencies). I have the guitar one rackmounted but the other is still a footpedal. I've never found anything that makes the same sound and they're an integral part of my stick sound now, but if TC have an all singing all dancing rack mount unit that can mimmick them I'd be sold!

Where abouts are you based? - I looked up predator country in google and it thinks I'm looking for Toxteth![/quote]

I’ve just been reading the manual for the 1128. It’s quite a piece of gear isn’t it? I love the idea of being able to use RTA functions to flat response the amplification side of things, akin to a PA set up. I’ve never tried it with my set up – but it would be fun to see what effect it has on my ‘perceived gear tone happiness rating’ lol!

I can really see how the feedback killer function would be helpful with the chapman stick and as you say, being able to switch from eq curve to eq curve seamlessly without having to faff with 30 sliders! The ability to control the unit itself by MIDI looks like a god send too! – In comparison, the Gforce and GMajor do not have such an expansive equalizer – yet the 5 band parametric of the GForce or the 3 band para of the GMajor still allow some great control over the eq response curve. I like that it is possible to control the width of the eq bands as well – so any hot spots can be nipped but it’s also possible to do gaping mid scoops as well – just for fun!

I must admit, I haven’t looked in to the Phaser effects on the TC as much as some of the other effects – but I know a lot of parameters can be edited per effect block (far more so than a standard pedal.) The Gforce has the additional functionality of being able to add external modifiers, such as dual LFO, pitch detection, envelope detection to individual effect parameters. Too much to explain, but you can do mental things like having the pitch of your notes control the speed of echos – or having the instrument envelope control echo tails or chorus speed!

Well, it’s Predator Country – or rather where Predator’s come to convalesce – because Norfolk shop windows are bifocal and all cars come with walking frame holders as standard.

Chapman Stick? I doth my cap sir! I would love one, such a beautiful sound!

[synaesthesia]

[quote name='Bassmanc' post='731508' date='Feb 1 2010, 11:51 AM']Thanks for reading![/quote]

You want to get a Sound Sculpture Switchblade.
[url="http://www.soundsculpture.com/products/switchblade_about.htm"]http://www.soundsculpture.com/products/switchblade_about.htm[/url]

If you can find an old AKAI MB76, you can do what you want to do but it is only a matrix line mixer, programmable , but only has 32 midi slots. doubt you need more. If you can find the PEQ6 , it will also do progammable EQ.

[Bassmanc]

[quote name='synaesthesia' post='733656' date='Feb 3 2010, 12:22 AM']You want to get a Sound Sculpture Switchblade.
[url="http://www.soundsculpture.com/products/switchblade_about.htm"]http://www.soundsculpture.com/products/switchblade_about.htm[/url]

If you can find an old AKAI MB76, you can do what you want to do but it is only a matrix line mixer, programmable , but only has 32 midi slots. doubt you need more. If you can find the PEQ6 , it will also do progammable EQ.[/quote]


mmmm this looks very similar to the Ground Control unit I have - that's an 8 x 8 matrix that is completely programmable - and now I just use it as a midi controller as I am pationate about keeping the signal path as pure as I can and, good as it is, the more 1ft jack to jack patch leads in the loop the noisier it all seems to get (doh! go figure!)

I'm curious about the programmable amp head suggestion - but I do love my power amp - so a pregrammable pre-amp replacement for the TC 1128 might be the best option.

[synaesthesia]

[quote name='Bassmanc' post='754036' date='Feb 22 2010, 04:51 PM']mmmm this looks very similar to the Ground Control unit I have - that's an 8 x 8 matrix that is completely programmable - and now I just use it as a midi controller as I am pationate about keeping the signal path as pure as I can and, good as it is, the more 1ft jack to jack patch leads in the loop the noisier it all seems to get (doh! go figure!)

I'm curious about the programmable amp head suggestion - but I do love my power amp - so a pregrammable pre-amp replacement for the TC 1128 might be the best option.[/quote]

Not the same, the sound sculpture and Akai MB 76s are midi controlled line matrix mixers, the DMC matrix thing you refer to is just a midi controlled switcher, more of a midi controlled patch bay. If you are using cheap or poorly designed gear, you'll have noise, but frankly the better you match the impedances in rig, you should be fine. My guitar rig was 12U full and way quieter than your standard professional level combo, and that's without a noise gate at all.

Edited February 23, 2010 by synaesthesia