1970s Fenders

[Jigster]

I heard someone say it again the other day that 70' Fender guitars/basses "aren't up to scratch" like it was generally a bad era for the company..

can someone who knows more about the history of this than me expand a little around this - ie. if they did make suspect stuff in this era, why was it suspect, poor pups, poor finish, necks..?

but more so, is this more of an urban myth?

Ta

[BB2000]

QA deteriated from the early 70's until early 80's (70/71/72 Fenders are generally OK). In addition very heavy (cheap) ash was often used for ash bodies at this time, instead of the expensive swamp ash used earlier (14lb jazz basses are not unknown).

Fender brought in Bob Schultz in the early eighties. He brought in former collegues from Yamaha who essentially retrained the Fender production staff. Quality improved drastically at this point - Fenders from the early 80's are generally pretty nice.

Current instruments are as well made as they have ever been.

[Gunsfreddy2003]

I have a 1974 jazz bass and it is light and quick and a joy to play.

I think that it is difficult to say that everything from x year to x year was not good - there will always be the odd exception to that theory.


[quote name='BB2000' post='733644' date='Feb 2 2010, 11:54 PM']QA deteriated from the early 70's until early 80's (70/71/72 Fenders are generally OK). In addition very heavy (cheap) ash was often used for ash bodies at this time, instead of the expensive swamp ash used earlier (14lb jazz basses are not unknown).

Fender brought in Bob Schultz in the early eighties. He brought in former collegues from Yamaha who essentially retrained the Fender production staff. Quality improved drastically at this point - Fenders from the early 80's are generally pretty nice.

Current instruments are as well made as they have ever been.[/quote]

[Clarky]

As I understand it QA deteriorated in the mid/late-70s which is why early 70s instruments are highly sought after. They noticeably became heavier, as mentioned, and some of the fittings changed for the worse (eg, 3-bolt neck plates were introduced around 75/6 for Jazzes along with horrid plastic controls). That said, I believe there are always good Fender instruments available from any era if you pick the right one carefully. Some BC'ers have late 70s Fender basses and are very happy with them (eg, Burrito Bass has a nice Precision).

[JTUK]

I wish I still had my 75 maple jazz... that's for sure.

It had a 3 bolt, and was heavy..as I recall.. but it played very well..

Maybe I just want it back to get the silly money they seem to go for now and maybe I have rose-tinted memories of it...???????

[moonbass]

I'm sure you're right about the deterioration in build quality during the 70's, but that makes me wonder why Fender chose the '75 jazz to for the vintage reissue? Owning one the resissue is one of the best basses I've played, so is it very different to the original? Why didn't they go for an earlier year?
A.

[Stag]

If anyone wants a very nice '73 in SB with black scratchplate there is one in Cookes Music in Norwich. Very pleasant and distinctly non heavy, only a teensy bit more heavy than my 2009. I played a 76' down Denmark Street somewhere recently and that was similar to having the USS Nimitz strapped round my neck.

[basshead56]

The general feel is that with Fender, it doesn´t really matter about the era, there will be good and bad.
Perhaps the 70´s yielded more bad than any other era, or people are being overly critical when comparing them to todays standards?
I have tried Jazzes from 73,74 and 76. All completely different weights and quite different soundwise (the 74 was my favourite)
I own 2 78 Precisions and I love them. Nothing comes close to them!
I guess it is a matter of taste

[BarnacleBob]

I rushed to me local second hand guitar emporium to try a '75 Jazz with maple neck and it was the doggiest thing I've ever handled I never even bothered plugging it in!

BB

[thumperbob 2002]

Yeah- I agree- there will be good and bad in all years. Marcus Miller still loves his `77s.

Bob

[BB2000]

Edit - removed post before the Fender heads break down my door.

Edited February 3, 2010 by BB2000

[Jigster]

interesting reading - thanks for responses -

[Cat Burrito]

Opinions are like a***holes, everyone's got one. Actually joking aside I agree with the general sentiment of what people have posted so far. My 1978 Precision is the mutts nuts. Whilst I would be quick to acknowledge it is regarded as a fact that there are a few turkeys from the 70s, there are also some absolute stunners too. A few things to watch for like weight, 3 bolt necks etc but I wouldn't be put off by the era. I am sure there are more people spouting the 70s were rubbish theory then there are people who have played 70s Fenders. I still remember when Japanese stuff was regarded as rubbish and having played a ton of the older instruments I can only agree with what everyone else is now saying.

[chris_b]

Quality issues weren’t unknown before the 70's. In the 60's Leo's pre CBS Fender basses were always reported to be better than CBS Fender's, even though Leo could cut corners with the best of them. Against advice he sold the first Broadcasters without truss rods, until they were all returned with twisted necks! Allegedly, CBS had better QC but were cutting costs on materials and manufacturing.

[RhysP]

The other thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that quality control suffered badly due to the sheer number of instruments they were churning out in the 70s. The same thing happened with Gibson under Norlins ownership around the same time.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='BB2000' post='733644' date='Feb 2 2010, 11:54 PM']In addition very heavy (cheap) ash was often used for ash bodies at this time, instead of the expensive swamp ash used earlier (14lb jazz basses are not unknown)[/quote]
Swamp ash was originally used because it was cheap and plentiful, not because people liked the sound of it. Fender was set up for mass production from the first moment, tone was secondary and this tends to get forgotten amongst all the vintage hype. Fender had the production values similar to many far eastern factories today. That some of the basses sound good is probably a happy accident due more to good engineering than materials choice.

[merello]

I always thought that Fender fell in the 70's too but the bass specialist in Guitar Guitar told me that CBS fecked around with the strat (using cheaper metals and woods) most of all but basically left teles and their basses alone. He then said that it would be up to the buyer to check how good the instrument was. Is this true?

[BB2000]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='734332' date='Feb 3 2010, 06:39 PM']Swamp ash was originally used because it was cheap and plentiful, not because people liked the sound of it. Fender was set up for mass production from the first moment, tone was secondary and this tends to get forgotten amongst all the vintage hype. Fender had the production values similar to many far eastern factories today. That some of the basses sound good is probably a happy accident due more to good engineering than materials choice.[/quote]


True, but it became expensive in the 70s and so they moved to the cheaper closed grain ash.

You could probably debate what people thought sounded 'good' back in the 50s. I suspect sounding like an acoustic bass was the original aim. But since they were first with mass produced instruments the Fender sound has obviously became the sound that people expect from an electric bass.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='merello' post='734361' date='Feb 3 2010, 07:03 PM']...but basically left teles ... alone.[/quote]

Sadly, the poor old Tele copped it as well, though the standard model avoided the 3-bolt neck. Change to body shape, pick-up output went down, 1k pots and horrid neck dimensions. If you're unlucky you wind up with a heavy, ice-pick Tele with an obese, blocky neck and a body that doesn't look quite right. Like my '76, bought in 1980. Hard to love, except for sentimental reasons. Frankly, my £135 Squier standard is a much nicer guitar.

I also recall a '70's natural 3-bolt Jazz I played for a while in 1982. The neck shifted so much, you had to jerk it straight after every song. Nothing inherently wrong with the 3 bolt principle, but the neck pockets were cut so loose in them days it was an accident waiting to happen.

Edited February 4, 2010 by skankdelvar

[The Bass Doc]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='734950' date='Feb 4 2010, 12:33 PM']The neck shifted so much, you had to jerk it straight after every song.[/quote]

Quite, and the Jazz bass you were referring to?

[BB2000]

Leo was just serving his apprenticeship really, until he started making real instruments at G&L.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='The Bass Doc' post='734964' date='Feb 4 2010, 12:50 PM']Quite, and the Jazz bass you were referring to?[/quote]

If anyone round here is qualified to pronounce on the quality of 70's Fenders it's himself, The Bass Doc.

So, Doc, I expect you had a fair few Jazzes in your hands in that decade. Care to expand?

Edited February 4, 2010 by skankdelvar

[karlfer]

[quote name='The Bass Doc' post='734964' date='Feb 4 2010, 12:50 PM']Quite, and the Jazz bass you were referring to?[/quote]


Smutty. Stop that at once my lad.

[The Bass Doc]

My experience of 70s Jazz basses (and I've owned and worked on many) is that the majority of the ones in the latter part of the decade were unduly heavy and suffered from poor quality control as the jigs were wearing out and neck fit in particular was a source of concern.

Just recently I worked on one that could take two plectra in the gap between neck and body to stop the thing moving sideways!

You can still get good ones though so the theory that there's good and bad in all eras holds up - I just think that there were more baddies in the period mentioned. The 3-bolt system itself was still a good idea (Leo carried it over the the early Musicman Stingray) it's just that at the time it was introduced the woodwork generally was getting distinctly iffy.

Edited February 4, 2010 by The Bass Doc

[thodrik]

Fender makes some good and bad in every era, you just have to play and see.

Dodgy wiring aside when I got it (previous owner issues I think), my '78 Precision plays as good (or should it be well?) as any other bass I've ever played. I bought it for 380 quid in 1999. Before Christmas I tried a 1971 Jazz that was supposedly worth 2 and half grand. It played and sounded horrible and the Sandberg sitting next to it for half the price was a far superior instrument.

For me that is semi-vintage Fender in a nutshell!