First EUB

[karlthebassist]

So one of the bands I play with is an Indi/Folk sort of band with multi instrumentalists, acoustic instruments etc

theres the link - [url="http://www.myspace.com/hoaxfuneral"]http://www.myspace.com/hoaxfuneral[/url] - I'm not on any of the recordings

I've joined them last year for the new stuff they have been working on - the new sound is a bit different to that on the recordings. But anyway, I play acoustic bass guitar with them mainly (and dabble on some other things too), but I keep thinking "man that would sound sweet on upright" on SO many songs that I think it may be worth getting one.

Problem is, what.

If I could just go out and buy one I'd get an NS WAV 4. To me, they look cool, sound decent (im not going for uber authentic tone as I dont need it), are pretty compact and well made. But £670 quid...

Only other one I've ever seen and played was the Stagg... and that's a pretty big no. Its massive, ugly and not very well made.

So what are my options? Are there £400 EUB's that fit the bill? Do WAVs ever come up second hand, and what sort of prices would I be looking at?

Any opinions, suggestions would be great. Cheers.
Karl

[Mottlefeeder]

[quote name='karlthebassist' post='736670' date='Feb 5 2010, 09:09 PM']So one of the bands I play with is an Indi/Folk sort of band with multi instrumentalists, acoustic instruments etc

theres the link - [url="http://www.myspace.com/hoaxfuneral"]http://www.myspace.com/hoaxfuneral[/url] - I'm not on any of the recordings

I've joined them last year for the new stuff they have been working on - the new sound is a bit different to that on the recordings. But anyway, I play acoustic bass guitar with them mainly (and dabble on some other things too), but I keep thinking "man that would sound sweet on upright" on SO many songs that I think it may be worth getting one.

Problem is, what.

If I could just go out and buy one I'd get an NS WAV 4. To me, they look cool, sound decent (im not going for uber authentic tone as I dont need it), are pretty compact and well made. But £670 quid...

Only other one I've ever seen and played was the Stagg... and that's a pretty big no. Its massive, ugly and not very well made.

So what are my options? Are there £400 EUB's that fit the bill? Do WAVs ever come up second hand, and what sort of prices would I be looking at?

Any opinions, suggestions would be great. Cheers.
Karl[/quote]
I put this together for a friend - most of it seems to be relevant to your query.

With regard to ERBs, there are several at the bottom end of the market,
and most seem to be pictured on the Thomann site
[url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/electric_double_basses.html"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/electric_double_basses.html[/url]

In general: budget ERBs can be plucked, and the higher the action, the
more they sound like DBs; most budget ERBs also have enough radius on
the bridge / fingerboard to allow them to be bowed, but most sound
nothing like a bowed DB.

1. Dean Pace - a 34 inch-scale bass-guitar neck turned vertical -
avoid. [url="http://www.deanguitars.uk.com/basses/pacebass.htm"]http://www.deanguitars.uk.com/basses/pacebass.htm[/url]
2. Stagg - Double bass height, 42 inch scale at about £350. Gets good
reviews. Does not fit across a car boot.
[url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=344951&page=3"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.p...4951&page=3[/url]
3. Palatino - Double bass height, 42 (?) inch scale, hollow bodied -
gets good reviews, but needs DIY modification to get the best out of it.
[url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22149"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22149[/url] 3&page=3 Also
appears to be marketed by Thomann as a Harvey Benton.
4. NS Wav - 42 inch scale on a short body on a tripod. Gets good
reviews, fits across a car boot, early models had quality problems with
the tripod, now redesigned.
[url="http://www.nedsteinberger.com/i"]http://www.nedsteinberger.com/i[/url] nstruments/wav.php
5. The Aria SB lite one is probably just out of your price range, but
appears to be the model that Stagg copied.
[url="http://www.ariaguitars.com/int/03_products/pro_e"]http://www.ariaguitars.com/int/03_products/pro_e[/url] b_swb_liteone.html The
guy who runs AGC basses is also an Aria stockist, and may be able to get
you a good price.

Out of that bunch, if you just want to test the water, the Stagg is
alleged to be fairly good, and easy to sell on if it does not work out.
The Palatino will draw fewer frowns in jazz and folkrock environments
because of its hollow body. The NS Wav is good, but you either love the
futuristic shape, or loathe it.

David

[TPJ]

[url="http://www.planadmin.us/ergo/"]Ergo basses[/url] have a good rap as well.
Also, check out the EDB mega threads on TB

[TheRev]

If I were in your position, I'd buy the Palatino/Harley Benton EUB. Then, find £100 to buy a set of Helicore orchestra (or similar) strings - used strings often come up for sale here so you could get them a lot cheaper if you're prepared to wait.

When you whip off the old strings, remove the bridge and slip a couple of pieces of inner tube under the pickup (see the Talkbass Plaitino modification thread for details). String up with your new, decent quality strings and get pluckin'.

[BigBeatNut]

[quote name='TheRev' post='737007' date='Feb 6 2010, 11:06 AM']If I were in your position, I'd buy the Palatino/Harley Benton EUB.[/quote]
It's worth noting that the Palatinos are not lightweights. Given that they're 'hollow' the weight will come as a bit of a surprise. Surprised it's not mentioned more, which might perhaps mean I'm the only one who had that issue.

Andy

[grumble]

In two minds here. I prefer the look of the Palatino but it would be easier to nip into Manchester and pick up a Stagg. Has anyone dealt with Thomann, what are the delivery times like ? Or maybe I should jump in the deep end and pick up a Stentor ?
Decisions, decisions.....

[Greydad]

[quote name='grumble' post='747138' date='Feb 16 2010, 12:44 PM']...Or maybe I should jump in the deep end and pick up a Stentor ?
Decisions, decisions.....[/quote]

Check this out [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=77602"]Archer DB[/url]

Edited February 16, 2010 by Greydad

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I don't know why the advice given above was to avoid the dean pace - I thoroughly enjoyed the one I owned & it gave a sound & feel very different to a fretless bass to make it worthwhile. It isn't designed to be bowed as the target market (people like me?) are probably not interested in using a bow.

They sometimes come up secondhand at a good price. A set of TI JF354 & a cheapo behringer ADI21 preamp made mine sound very good.

I've since upgraded to a Ned Steinberger CR5M which is in a totally different class, but its in a different price range as well.

[grumble]

[quote]Check this out Archer DB[/quote]

Yeah I spotted that earlier, trouble is its the start of a slippy slope. £400 for an EUB to see if I take to it slowly becomes £750 for a db which then grows to £1k after new strings and proper set up ! Only to find I cant hack it....

At the moment a quick trip to Manc land for a Stagg is probably favourite.

[Greydad]

Find a local teacher and get a couple of taster lessons, that's what I did.

You've got some top notch people up there, Jon Thorne for instance.

An hour getting over the fear and pain threshold is a revelation. Then you really are on the slippery slope...

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='grumble' post='747402' date='Feb 16 2010, 04:14 PM']Yeah I spotted that earlier, trouble is its the start of a slippy slope. £400 for an EUB to see if I take to it slowly becomes £750 for a db which then grows to £1k after new strings and proper set up ! Only to find I cant hack it....

At the moment a quick trip to Manc land for a Stagg is probably favourite.[/quote]


Whereabouts are you? I'm near Blackpool and you're welcome to have a play on my Stagg EUB to see if you like it

A lot of people dismiss the Staggs but i love mine, it can do quite a good db impression

It also has a line-in and headphone out so i can play along to tunes on my phone in total silence which is really handy

[grumble]

Thanx for the offer lemmywinks, I'm Bolton based but I've decided to get a Stagg this weekend anyway. I figure that if I dont like it then I shouldn't lose to much when I get rid.
As to getting a teacher, yeah I will eventually but at the moment I have a couple of DVD's on the way to get me started (The Evolving Bassist by Rufus Reid and Jazz Upright Bass by Ed Friedland). I will get lessons when the strangeness has worn off a little, no doubt by that time I will have a mass of bad habits to break

[derrenleepoole]

The stand on Palatino's are weak. Search the talkbass.com forum for a whole host of threads about modding them. mods include drum cymbal stands to help them free stand, rubber under the bridge, wolf tone control, better piezo pickups etc. The amount of money you can spend on them to get them more playable would be better invested in a better instrument to begin with. Ergo's are good for the money and would be a better investment.

[Mottlefeeder]

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='747196' date='Feb 16 2010, 01:26 PM']I don't know why the advice given above was to avoid the dean pace - I thoroughly enjoyed the one I owned & it gave a sound & feel very different to a fretless bass to make it worthwhile. It isn't designed to be bowed as the target market (people like me?) are probably not interested in using a bow.

They sometimes come up secondhand at a good price. A set of TI JF354 & a cheapo behringer ADI21 preamp made mine sound very good.

I've since upgraded to a Ned Steinberger CR5M which is in a totally different class, but its in a different price range as well.[/quote]
I have to start by admitting that I haven't played one, but I read around a lot before making my own shortlist. The messages that I got were that -

a) they were not different enough to a fretless-on-end to be worth buying if you already had a fretless (you've been there, I haven't),
b) with a standard bass guitar string length, they were little use as a toe in the water for a 42 inch scale 3/4 EUB or DB
c) with a typical bass guitar string spacing and neck radius, you could not bow them.

One of the reviews that I read suggested that they were designed to allow bass guitarists to cross-over to an upright-ish kind of instrument, but were not intended as an entry level EUB or DB. That is how I think of them.

David

[Mottlefeeder]

[quote name='grumble' post='747526' date='Feb 16 2010, 05:51 PM']Thanx for the offer lemmywinks, I'm Bolton based but I've decided to get a Stagg this weekend anyway. I figure that if I dont like it then I shouldn't lose to much when I get rid.
As to getting a teacher, yeah I will eventually but at the moment I have a couple of DVD's on the way to get me started (The Evolving Bassist by Rufus Reid and Jazz Upright Bass by Ed Friedland). I will get lessons when the strangeness has worn off a little, no doubt by that time I will have a mass of bad habits to break [/quote]
Can I suggest an alternative? - Get one lesson to start you off on the right track. Much of the traditional DB sound comes from the high action, which means more effort, and if you do not start with the right fingering and wrist positions, you can cause serious tendon damage quite quickly.

David

[Doddy]

[quote name='Mottlefeeder' post='748976' date='Feb 17 2010, 09:23 PM']Can I suggest an alternative? - Get one lesson to start you off on the right track. Much of the traditional DB sound comes from the high action, which means more effort, and if you do not start with the right fingering and wrist positions, you can cause serious tendon damage quite quickly.

David[/quote]

+lots

You are waaaay better off having a couple of lessons before you get into bad habits rather than after.

[CoolCat]

[quote name='grumble' post='747526' date='Feb 16 2010, 05:51 PM']Thanx for the offer lemmywinks, I'm Bolton based but I've decided to get a Stagg this weekend anyway. I figure that if I dont like it then I shouldn't lose to much when I get rid.
As to getting a teacher, yeah I will eventually but at the moment I have a couple of DVD's on the way to get me started (The Evolving Bassist by Rufus Reid and Jazz Upright Bass by Ed Friedland). I will get lessons when the strangeness has worn off a little, no doubt by that time I will have a mass of bad habits to break [/quote]

Hi Grumble,

I have started my db journey after not getting a Palatino on a ebay auction.The orange box was there and it was rebound love.Never looked back.

The Evolving Bassist is a great masterclass DVD, inspiring to say the least. Ed Friedland's I found is ok for band playing and understanding the jazz db role, not so much for a beginner bassist. The really useful one for me is Todd Phillips - Essential Techniques for Acoustic Bass (only have volume one for now). It has plenty about posture, left and right hand positioning, setup and little tricks like marking lightly key positions on the neck - not all, how to tune by ear and check while playing, simple grooves you can almost instantly play and basic scales. There is a point where he gets you playing the groove and then plays on top. Very cool. Once I master this dvd I will get dvd 2 where Todd goes into more intermediate territory.

I have now contacted a teacher in my Manc area, to check availability. Although orchestral orientated (RNCM,HALLE,BBC) I guess he will provide me with solid fundamentals so I can do my jazz explorations.I have too many materials and not enough focus.Teacher will be good to tame that.

Check out Rabbath masterclass in Berlin on you tube if you also like bow/classical.


Funny enough not many mention strings (spacing and height yes, but not string types) and I just witnessed a miracle after 5 min of playing pizz on my new Evahs. This is the sound I wanted! I can now evolve!

......there are not enough hours in a day.Sorry, hijacking,rambling....

[grumble]

First off, apologies to karlthebassist for threadjacking ! Sorry m8.

I do intend to get a few lessons but at the moment I work 48-60 hours a week so finding time for lessons would be a little difficult. This should ease soon so I will have time to find a teacher, until then it means a little self-teaching. Do you think I could have a new toy and just let it sit round until I had time for lessons ????
As an aside, if anyone has any names/numbers of any teachers in a 25 mile radius of Bolton they can recommend then please let me have 'em.

Thanks for the DVD recommendation Coolcat, I've ordered it from Amazon.

[tauzero]

[quote name='BigBeatNut' post='737114' date='Feb 6 2010, 12:45 PM']It's worth noting that the Palatinos are not lightweights. Given that they're 'hollow' the weight will come as a bit of a surprise. Surprised it's not mentioned more, which might perhaps mean I'm the only one who had that issue.[/quote]
You're not the only one - it's why I sold the Palatino and bought a WAV-4. I currently have the WAV-4 and a 5-string Ergo, and either of those should suit the OP's purposes. The WAV-4 does need some sort of buffering pre-amp though, otherwise it sounds really thin.

[endorka]

[quote name='tauzero' post='758239' date='Feb 26 2010, 02:22 PM']The WAV-4 does need some sort of buffering pre-amp though, otherwise it sounds really thin.[/quote]

That's interesting re: the WAV-4 , and I certainly don't doubt your experience, but mine has been different - perhaps it depends on the amplifier one uses? I used mine mostly with an Eden Wt330, and it sounded fat as beejeesus, but it has a 1 megohm input impedance, designed for acoustic instruments, so that would explain that. Perhaps amps with a lower input impedance are those requiring the preamp?

It also sounded great on Trace Elliot and Ashdown amps, but I've no idea about the technical specs of those.

Jennifer

[tauzero]

[quote name='endorka' post='758269' date='Feb 26 2010, 02:55 PM']That's interesting re: the WAV-4 , and I certainly don't doubt your experience, but mine has been different - perhaps it depends on the amplifier one uses? I used mine mostly with an Eden Wt330, and it sounded fat as beejeesus, but it has a 1 megohm input impedance, designed for acoustic instruments, so that would explain that. Perhaps amps with a lower input impedance are those requiring the preamp?[/quote]
Yes, that's right. A high impedance input is fine - it's also not terribly common, input impedances tend to be in the tens of k rather than megs.