4StringHell Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 (edited) I've just rebuilt my pedal board and I cant fathom the fundamental stupidity of all the multi-effects units I have used over time. Every unit I've had... Zooms, Digitechs, Boss' all require you to step on two pedals simultaneously to bypass the effect. this is simply too unreliable for live work in my experience. Sure you get it 9 times out of 10... but thats not good enough. In particular my latest ME-50B seems so dumb I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong. When you step on a pedal you get the effect... when you step on it again expecting it to switch off like a stomp box... it doesnt!! Is it me? Or am I right in suggesting that these units are poorly thought out at the most fundamental entry level function? They need one big fat overall on/off pedal. Does anyone else find this with the ME-50B ?? The only solution I have is to loop the unit through an LS-2 looping pedal to switch the whole loop on or off... which does allow you to flick around with your feet before kicking it in. Your thoughts / suggestions please! Edited October 31, 2007 by 4StringHell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Boss GT6B only needs one pedal to be pressed to be put into true by-pass mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebasshead Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 [quote name='steve-soar' post='81348' date='Oct 30 2007, 05:01 PM']Boss GT6B only needs one pedal to be pressed to be put into true by-pass mode.[/quote] +1 for the GT6B, single pedal bypass as you say. I'm surprised the ME50B doesn't have the same - you'd think Boss would use the same underlying operating system. I find my GT6B really easy to use in a live situation (obviously once patches are set up and stored). All I've ever needed to tweak live is the effect volume which is usually down to room acoustics and obvious at the soundcheck. Never needed to tweak it mid-song during a gig. 4stringhell, if you wanted to persevere with multifx I'd recommend you check out a GT6B. One thing though - definitely read the manual! It's a doddle to use once you understand the logic of how it's set up but it's not really "pick-up-and-play". Spend a little time and effort and it'll click into place. Regards, Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cooke Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 [quote name='4StringHell' post='81340' date='Oct 30 2007, 04:51 PM']Every unit I've had... Zooms, Digitechs, Boss' all require you to step on two pedals simultaneously to bypass the effect. this is simply too unreliable for live work in my experience. Sure you get it 9 times out of 10... but thats not good enough. Your thoughts / suggestions please![/quote] As supplied, the Zoom requires both buttons to be pressed to put it into bypass mode, but if you get an extra footswitch, you can assign the footswitch to toggle bypass on/off or to mute it (press and hold for at least a second to mute). While bypassed/muted the tuner function is active. Unfortunately, you can't change patches while bypassed/muted. Pressing any footswitch takes it out of bypass/mute. (The default function of the remote footswitch in all patches is for bypass/mute) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Multi effects units are always gonna be a compromise - lots are cheaper than one good single pedal. I only use one effect though - VOLUME! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finbar Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 GT6-B does need two simultaneous (awkwardly placed) switches to activate the tuner though ¬_¬ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 i've never really got on with multi-fx. but then i like all them little boxes. they're like little faces smiling up at you ^_^ kawaiiiiiiii !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 [quote name='bass_ferret' post='81425' date='Oct 30 2007, 07:11 PM']I only use one effect though - VOLUME![/quote] Oh, I like it. I like it alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I don't think that the lower end of multi-effects, where you have this difficulty, are aimed at gigging musicians. I use my B2.1U, but, it's part of a bigger setup, in a loop. I think the GT-6B works fine, and I would have no problem with the switching capabilities it has. You could add your own footswitch, to fool the unit into thinking you're pressing both switches at once. I used to use a zoom GFX707, which I added 2 footswitches to, to allow me to switch up and down by 10 patches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebasshead Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 [quote name='Finbar' post='81566' date='Oct 31 2007, 12:34 AM']GT6-B does need two simultaneous (awkwardly placed) switches to activate the tuner though ¬_¬[/quote] On the other hand they're out of the way of accidental activation...and the ensuing instant, embarrasing silence... De-activation only takes one press of either of the switches which is handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkysimon Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 [quote name='stevebasshead' post='81669' date='Oct 31 2007, 12:03 PM']On the other hand they're out of the way of accidental activation...and the ensuing instant, embarrasing silence... [/quote] The guitarist in one of the bands I'm in uses an ME50 and has achieved this a few times, causing much hilarity. "Mark, go for a solo!" *stomps* *silence* ... still, you know what they say about guitarists with big feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 [quote name='funkysimon' post='81677' date='Oct 31 2007, 12:21 PM']... still, you know what they say about guitarists with big feet.[/quote] Big Heads! Seriously, I have to play with thinner shoes than I normally wear, so that I don't hit two pedals at once by accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 [quote name='cheddatom' post='81644' date='Oct 31 2007, 10:39 AM']I don't think that the lower end of multi-effects, where you have this difficulty, are aimed at gigging musicians.[/quote] I agree, if you you have 5 effects pedals and you'd rather they were in a really good multiFX unit, then, to an extent you should expect to pay 5x pedals worth for a good effects unit. In reality, 5 rubbish pedals will probably get you a rubbish multiFX. 5 really good pedals, will get you an exceptional MultiFX rack ;o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I was refferring more to the switching options you get, rather than the actual quality of effects. A multi-effects unit that has silence between patches, or is difficult to operate with your feet, is fundamentally flawed, with respect to gigging, but maybe that's not it's intended purpose. As far as the ME50B goes, I wouldn't really know! If it's in "stompbox mode" or whatever it's called, then you would expect that pressing the same button you pressed to turn on an effect, would also turn it off! If not, then, yeh, that seems crap, but, it doesn't mean all multi-effects are fundamentally flawed. I find that having effects in a loop, whether they be multi effects or singles boxes, is useful, as you can take time setting up a sound before you kick it in. It's only my opinion, but I think that multi-effects are only worth buying, if you need to switch between different complicated effects settings. For example, if I use 3 different gain settings on one of the dirty patches on my Zoom, it would take 3 copies of the same pedal, with different settings, in a midi controlled rack, or in a looper on a massive board to replace the zoom with single pedals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4StringHell Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 I agree the cheaper units are not pro gigging gear... but I still think if they had one big overall dedicated on / bypass pedal they would be much more stage friendly. I dont see why a cheapo Zoom should not be designed for use on stage... just because its cheap. I'm with youthough Chedatom... and would suggest it to anyone with a Multi FX unit. Using a looping pedal to control the whole thing is what I'm doing as well. Seems a bit silly.... but it works! It lets you toggle through patches/banks in advance and then trigger it with the loop pedal. It also does away with that split second lag that some cheapy units have when you jump on the patch... destroying all kick/bass punch! I still think that is a fundamental requirement of the units though. Why should you need a loop pedal as well? It necesitates a pedal board straight up. Thats my point in this thread. No doubt stomp boxes are the ultimate.... but I would argue that without a multi-effects unit AS WELL... you may never realise that that crazy arse synth/flanger on patch 32 actually sounds wicked in that trippy ditty interlude... where otherwise you would have stuck with your overdrive pedal or whatever. Just saying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Well, if you take the B2.1U as an example, it's obviously designed with home use in mind, with the USB interface etc. and when you add the extra footswitch, you can program this for bypass or tuner mute, or delay hold or whatever, but most importantly bypass. A very well designed pedal in my opinion, that you can add one cheap footswitch to, to make giggable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cooke Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 [quote name='cheddatom' post='82123' date='Nov 1 2007, 10:16 AM']Well, if you take the B2.1U as an example, it's obviously designed with home use in mind, with the USB interface etc. and when you add the extra footswitch, you can program this for bypass or tuner mute, or delay hold or whatever, but most importantly bypass. A very well designed pedal in my opinion, that you can add one cheap footswitch to, to make giggable.[/quote] for the reason I've already stated above... it isn't quite giggable with the extra footswitch... while in bypass/mute mode, pressing either of the two patch change footswitches only takes it out of bypass/mute... you CAN'T change patch while it's in bypass/mute mode... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Ahhh, sorry!! I do have one but haven't tried that. The easiest way to get around this is to save a clean patch at say, position 9, and copy it to every 10th bank. Then get the extra footswitch to jump 10 banks. Then program your other patches in patch 8, 10, 17, 19, 26, 28 etc etc. This is what I do (kinda). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4StringHell Posted November 1, 2007 Author Share Posted November 1, 2007 I will take these as comments of agreement then!! he he I did the same on my old Digitech BP200. I made every odd number patch dead clean... so that no matter what pedal I hit whilst playing an effect... it would go back to clean. That really is kinda silly though and you still cant toggle whilst playing. My conclusion: a Boss LS-2 looping your Multi FX unit is the only cheapo, gig friendly setup that I can see. Stomp boxes still rule, but its good to have the option of other random sounds... especially in combination with some stomps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 If you set up a load of clean patches, 10 apart, and you can jump 10 with a footswitch, then, you wouldn't need to "toggle whilst playing", assuming you know where your patches are. I don't know if i've explained this properly, but it solves your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 MIDI Switching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 [quote name='The Funk' post='82294' date='Nov 1 2007, 02:37 PM']MIDI Switching[/quote] Good point, well put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 [quote name='Toasted' post='81628' date='Oct 31 2007, 09:56 AM']Oh, I like it. I like it alot.[/quote] Me too Back on topic, I use the Zoom B2 1.u and I don't have any problem pressing both switches at the same time to bypass/mute the unit.. The problem I encounter more frequently is that the right-sided switch is quite close to the pedal so if you're not careful, you can hit the pedal instead of the switch which causes all sorts of mayhem depending on how the functionality of the pedal is set! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 With the ME6B what I've just sold, I programmed bank 5 programme 5 to be silent. It would hardly be a problem to have set it up as a neutral patch instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Bass Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 When i used to gig with a multi effect. i made the user created patches follow in the order of effects and clean i used for example in our first song it had a clean intro, distorted verse clean chorus distorted verse etc so i programmed my patches 1-clean 2-distorted 3-clean etc found that worked for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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