"Wilhelm Eberle" ply bass

[thisnameistaken]

Anyone heard of these? One just turned up at my house and I'm busy enjoying struggling to get actual music out of the thing at the moment.

Looks like the neck joint might've had damage at some point, not sure about the top either it looks strangely curved around the F holes to me but I'll take some snaps for the experts to cast eyes over in a bit - need to figure out how to play it first!

Is there anything in particular I should be doing to figure out whether I ought to buy this bass? In terms of obvious stuff to check, etc.?

Feels quite heavy. It's been over 10 years since I last had a DB (and that was short-lived) but I'm sure mine was lighter than this last time!

[thisnameistaken]

Some photos (phone with no flash, artificial light, sorry) in case there's anything that looks totally wrong that I haven't spotted. There is a dent in one of the ribs, about the width of my thumb, that's the only un-treated damage I can find. Does the bridge look OK, stuff like that? Anything structurally iffy?

And does anybody what these strings are? The windings at the other end are different colours - red, blue, yellow and green.

Edited February 9, 2010 by thisnameistaken

[velvetkevorkian]

The bridge looks like it's warping slightly to me- not really an issue yet but be aware it may need replaced if it warps too far.

[thisnameistaken]

In case it's not clear in the photos, the bridge is straight, perpendicular to the body on the lower side - it doesn't look twisted or bent. Is that what you mean?

[velvetkevorkian]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='740482' date='Feb 9 2010, 11:27 PM']In case it's not clear in the photos, the bridge is straight, perpendicular to the body on the lower side - it doesn't look twisted or bent. Is that what you mean?[/quote]
To me it looks like the top of the bridge is starting to lean towards the floor more than it should- the pics make it look like the lower side is significantly straighter. I've attached an awesomely Painted version to try and show what I mean.

I could be wrong though, and even if it is it's a routine job for a luthier to replace.

[PedalB]

Hi,
The bridge is not rite but this as has already been said this is not a major point, of more concern is that neck joint and that potential crack at the top of the neck- research into the basses history is needed here . Most reputable luthiers would make a much tidier job of this kind of repair so more questions need to be asked. Dont know of this maker myself but
am very dubious of ply instruments in general,in order to enjoy your bass playing get the best bass your budget to will stretch and some decent strings.Whilst I recognise there are differing opinions on ply basses , my experience is that they tend to be a bit dull and lacking in resonance . Sorry if this sounds a bit negative but it look like caution is needed with this instrument .

Good luck

Edited February 10, 2010 by PedalB

[macmellus]

So how long is a good bridge expected to last? Mine looks about the same.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='740488' date='Feb 9 2010, 11:34 PM']To me it looks like the top of the bridge is starting to lean towards the floor more than it should- the pics make it look like the lower side is significantly straighter. I've attached an awesomely Painted version to try and show what I mean.[/quote]

You are right of course. It's been so long since I've seen a DB up close I couldn't remember if they were supposed to be symmetrical, but this one definitely isn't.

Is this likely to need replacing soon, do you think? Only I've seen the price of adjustable bridges so I think it would be an issue worth raising!

[quote name='PedalB' post='740512' date='Feb 10 2010, 12:01 AM']of more concern is that neck joint and that potential crack at the top of the neck- research into the basses history is needed here . Most reputable luthiers would make a much tidier job of this kind of repair so more questions need to be asked.[/quote]

I will ask about the neck joint. The crack at the top looks like it's been like that for a long time - it's dirty - so it's probably OK. It certainly doesn't move. The neck joint - again - doesn't move, but it looks a bit scruffy like you said and it looks almost filled in a couple of spots, I'm wondering if it's more recent. I will ask about that.

[quote name='PedalB' post='740512' date='Feb 10 2010, 12:01 AM']Dont know of this maker myself but
am very dubious of ply instruments in general,in order to enjoy your bass playing get the best bass your budget to will stretch and some decent strings.Whilst I recognise there are differing opinions on ply basses , my experience is that they tend to be a bit dull and lacking in resonance . Sorry if this sounds a bit negative but it look like caution is needed with this instrument .[/quote]

I appreciate your feedback, it's exactly what I wanted - honest appraisal. But I do want a ply bass, I'd be too worried about looking after a carved bass properly and my budget wouldn't stretch to one anyway. But I do want to make sure I'm not paying too much for this one in case I want to shift it and upgrade to something else later.

In terms of how it plays, it only took me about an hour to get fairly comfortable with it (although I haven't ventured past "the ninth fret" or whatever I'm supposed to call it - the first two octaves ) and start bashing out tunes without struggling. This is as an absolute novice, so I think it's an easy bass to play, so potentially good to study on? I'm not sure about the way the A and E strings sound though, they're a little muddy compared to the other two and it's difficult to hear intonation on lower notes sometimes, but I don't know if that's strings or bass, or just me being unfamiliar with how deep a DB sounds compared to a bass guitar / fretless.

Anyway, long and short of it, the geezer wants £500 for it. So currently I'm thinking does the bridge need replacing, are they like cheap strings that your mum would buy on the market if she was a gypsy or something like that, and is the neck joint safe. If all of those come back "they're probably fine" then I think I'll have it, but I'm trying to weigh up what I'll (potentially) need to spend on it in the near future. Given that I already need a pickup.

Thanks for the responses so far, very valuable.

Edited February 10, 2010 by thisnameistaken

[TPJ]

That bridge is ok. Mine's carved (and curved) like that. The luthier I use said as long as the bottom of the bridge is flat and perpendicular to the body you'll be fine.
It takes some getting used to looking at them though

Also, strings look like Innovation Honeys. Nylon core with metal windings, they offer a darker gut like tone and very different to Spiros.

Edited February 10, 2010 by TPJ

[PedalB]

Hi,
you are going to need to keep an eye on that bridge and more than likely replace it at some point . I had one that went that way some years ago , it started out looking like yours but slowly the warping got worse (it took about 18 months) .My teacher at the time explained to me why I needed to get it sorted as soon as I could find the readies .I will try and recount his explanation , sadly its a bit of an engineering or physics lesson not my strongest point.
One of the functions of the bridge is to transmit the vibrations from the strings to the body of the bass , the feet of the bridge are hand fitted to the contour of the basses table to make maximum contact ,when the bridge is straight the force caused by tensioning the strings is applied evenly through the feet to the table
and the transmission of vibration is optimised,as a bridge warps more of that force is applied by less area of the feet ,and this situation worsens as the warping increases ,also the leading edge of the foot can start to bight into the wood of the table . If your looking for maximum performance the the bridge needs to be straight , however your bridge is probably not yet bad enough to warrant replacement ,but if the curvature worsens then its time to act. Hope that made sense.

[thisnameistaken]

Yep understood.

TPJ I think you must be right about the strings too, he did mention that the strings were "hybrids" when he dropped it off yesterday.

Right just need to speak to him about the heel joint then I guess. Thanks again everybody.

[TPJ]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='740952' date='Feb 10 2010, 01:22 PM']Yep understood.

TPJ I think you must be right about the strings too, he did mention that the strings were "hybrids" when he dropped it off yesterday.

Right just need to speak to him about the heel joint then I guess. Thanks again everybody.[/quote]

Is there a luthier in your area to take it for inspection? That'd give you a valuation as well.
Maybe make it a condition of the sale. You'll buy it at that price if he allows you to take it to get it inspected.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='TPJ' post='740965' date='Feb 10 2010, 01:35 PM']Is there a luthier in your area to take it for inspection? That'd give you a valuation as well.
Maybe make it a condition of the sale. You'll buy it at that price if he allows you to take it to get it inspected.[/quote]

When my guitars need work I usually take them down to Shane Haigh in Horbury, who does do work on violins and stuff AFAIK, but it's a bit far to go. I've got a couple of mates who did the musical instrument tech BTEC at Leeds...?

TBH I do trust the seller, we have a lot of mutual acquaintances and I don't think he'd rip me off. You're right though it would be good to get it looked over just to be on the safe side, I'm just trying to think where/when I could do that.

[thisnameistaken]

Actually I've just had another look at the bridge and it looks like it was cut into that shape - one side is a flat plane, the other side is rounded. It isn't bent or warped.

I also would've thought that a bridge would typically turn towards the fingerboard rather than the tailpiece, just from tuning up and stuff? I remember my last DB when I put new strings on it I had to keep re-setting the bridge because it was being pulled towards the f/board by the strings.

[TPJ]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='741018' date='Feb 10 2010, 02:12 PM']... I'm just trying to think where/when I could do that.[/quote]

Try Jan at [url="http://www.chapel-allerton.org.uk/"]Chappel Allerton Strings[/url]. He works on my bass and is a cool guy.
He's in North Leeds which maybe easier to get to from your neck of the woods.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='741055' date='Feb 10 2010, 02:31 PM']Actually I've just had another look at the bridge and it looks like it was cut into that shape - one side is a flat plane, the other side is rounded. It isn't bent or warped.[/quote]

This is how Jan carved my new bridge. I think it's probably ok, but get it checked out to be sure.

Edited February 10, 2010 by TPJ

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='TPJ' post='741101' date='Feb 10 2010, 03:08 PM']Try Jan at [url="http://www.chapel-allerton.org.uk/"]Chappel Allerton Strings[/url]. He works on my bass and is a cool guy.
He's in North Leeds which maybe easier to get to from your neck of the woods.

This is how Jan carved my new bridge. I think it's probably ok, but get it checked out to be sure.[/quote]

Ah. The guy who's selling me this bass uses him, so it's likely he fitted this bridge. That's me done with worrying about the bridge then.

Thanks.

[thisnameistaken]

Well I spoke to the seller (a local bass teacher called Christian Topman, who hopefully will take me on for some lessons too) today and he told me the neck break happened a few years ago and was repaired by Scheerers in Leeds. It doesn't look pretty but it doesn't look like a problem either so I'm not too bothered. Also turns out the strings are Pirastro Evah Pirazzis, but he's going to bung in an old set of steels too in case I want to try a more modern sound but to be honest I like this thick and boomy old-school sound so far, it's quite appropriate for what I'll be doing with it (old soul and rocksteady stuff mostly). The bridge is apparently quite new and was indeed fitted by Jan at Chapel Allerton, he's also seen to the fingerboard which I assume is why it plays so easily.

I've decided I'm having it. Looking past the old damage it's way more bass than I would get for that money elsewhere, it sounds good and it was comfortable to play from the first hour I had it, and I can do without the stress of trying not to get done over by sellers who I don't know, who might be less than entirely honest about what they're selling me. Plus I actually wanted a bass that I wouldn't be too scared about damaging myself, so a few war wounds makes me feel more comfortable!

Thanks again to you all for your help, I am a very stoked newbie DB botherer.

[Greydad]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='742088' date='Feb 11 2010, 01:50 PM']Well I spoke to the seller (a local bass teacher called Christian Topman, who hopefully will take me on for some lessons too) today and he told me the neck break happened a few years ago and was repaired by Scheerers in Leeds. It doesn't look pretty but it doesn't look like a problem either so I'm not too bothered. Also turns out the strings are Pirastro Evah Pirazzis, but he's going to bung in an old set of steels too in case I want to try a more modern sound but to be honest I like this thick and boomy old-school sound so far, it's quite appropriate for what I'll be doing with it (old soul and rocksteady stuff mostly). The bridge is apparently quite new and was indeed fitted by Jan at Chapel Allerton, he's also seen to the fingerboard which I assume is why it plays so easily.

I've decided I'm having it. Looking past the old damage it's way more bass than I would get for that money elsewhere, it sounds good and it was comfortable to play from the first hour I had it, and I can do without the stress of trying not to get done over by sellers who I don't know, who might be less than entirely honest about what they're selling me. Plus I actually wanted a bass that I wouldn't be too scared about damaging myself, so a few war wounds makes me feel more comfortable!

Thanks again to you all for your help, I am a very stoked newbie DB botherer. [/quote]

Excellent - well done!

Those are good strings, I'd leave them on.

And it comes ready "road worn" so adds to the kudos!

You're going to love it