A little confuzzled!!

[Bassulike66]

I have recently got my hands on a Hartke rig....and please forgive my ignorance for asking these simple quenstions, but i'm old lol!!

Amp...HA3500 350 Watts

Cab 4x10 XL series = 400W

Cab 1x15 Xl series =200W

All 8 ohm rating...

Amp states 240W at 8 ohm's..amp has 2 x speaker out channels, also 8 ohms..

Does this then mean i have 120W per channel????.

If this is so, then it ain't gonna be loud enough for what i want.

Could anyone advise me on a real rip snorter set up?!?!

Have had my eye on an Ampeg set up...but don't know what i'd be looking for really.

Music style played metal/rock.

Thank's very Ta'

[Paul_C]

[quote name='Bassulike66' post='743421' date='Feb 12 2010, 07:34 PM']I have recently got my hands on a Hartke rig....and please forgive my ignorance for asking these simple quenstions, but i'm old lol!!

Amp...HA3500 350 Watts

Cab 4x10 XL series = 400W

Cab 1x15 Xl series =200W

All 8 ohm rating...

Amp states 240W at 8 ohm's..amp has 2 x speaker out channels, also 8 ohms..

Does this then mean i have 120W per channel????.

If this is so, then it ain't gonna be loud enough for what i want.

Could anyone advise me on a real rip snorter set up?!?!

Have had my eye on an Ampeg set up...but don't know what i'd be looking for really.

Music style played metal/rock.

Thank's very Ta'[/quote]

you've got two 8ohm cabs plugged in which I imagine is dropping the impedance down to 4 ohms which uses the full 350w

if you only had one cab plugged in then it would only be 240w

[DirkThrust]

I think you're confusing the two output jacks for two seperate channels.

AFAIAA the HA3500 is a single channel amp so both those outs are common which is why Paul gave the above answer.

[TenLetters]

+1 to both the above.

Until very recently I used one Hartke 4x10 8ohm cab with the Ha3500 and it was more than i ever needed so im sure you have enough power. Depends on what your doing of course but your rig will go very loud indeed.

Cheers,

[Bassulike66]

[quote name='Paul_C' post='743441' date='Feb 12 2010, 07:55 PM']you've got two 8ohm cabs plugged in which I imagine is dropping the impedance down to 4 ohms which uses the full 350w

if you only had one cab plugged in then it would only be 240w[/quote]



The back of the amp states...

8 ohms = 240w
4 ohms = 350w

There are 2 outputs which both have 8 ohms written next to them.

It's just really thrown me...lol

So would it be worth while upgrading to the 500W amp..just for a little bit more oomph??

[cLepto-bass]

2 8ohm cabs = 4ohm output.

Its pretty standard setup, my Markbass LMII used the same style as do alot of others. With that much power hooked up to a 4x10 and 1x15, you should be having enough volume for most applications.

[TenLetters]

[quote name='Bassulike66' post='743518' date='Feb 12 2010, 09:32 PM']The back of the amp states...

8 ohms = 240w
4 ohms = 350w

There are 2 outputs which both have 8 ohms written next to them.

It's just really thrown me...lol

So would it be worth while upgrading to the 500W amp..just for a little bit more oomph??[/quote]

It all depends on what you need really, but like uzzell said I would think you already have enough power on your hands for most applications. If you need any more than you have now you should probably start thinking about putting you bass through a P.A and using you rig as a monitor.

What are you going to be using this set up for?

[Bassulike66]

It all depends on what you need really, but like uzzell said I would think you already have enough power on your hands for most applications. If you need any more than you have now you should probably start thinking about putting you bass through a P.A and using you rig as a monitor.

What are you going to be using this set up for?

We predominantly play metal...(and no..my amp doesn't go up to 11 lol). All im trying to do is re-educate myself on the basics of amp/cab set up's, it's been some years since i have been in a gigging band, i just wanted to be sure i was getting good wattage for my pound. Originally, i thought i would have enough power with the rig i have and everything would be tickety boo! But, we have had several rehearsal's in a small village hall due to not being able to get our usual rehearsal room. However, i am more than aware that the acoustics of an empty village hall are totally different to that of a nice warm rehearsal room. I had my amp volume up to 9 and it was barely audible over un-miked drums and guitar...and yes i thought PA should fill any short comings in power, but our drummer is such a big hitter..( like most drummers i suppose).. i was thinking that i'm not even going to hear it as a backline monitor....and the answer to this one is!?!?... there's only one way to find out lol.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Bassulike66

[Merton]

That rig will be plenty loud enough, and 500w won't seem that much louder. Try it, you'll like it

[ThomBassmonkey]

The confusing thing is about ohms. The ohms combine when you add bits of gear together. So in an 8ohm 4x10 there's 4 32ohm speakers. Instead of doing 32 x 4 to work out the total, you divide it by 4 which gives you 8ohms for the cab.

If you're running 2 8ohm cabs, same idea, so you get 4ohm total. From 4 ohms you'll be getting the full 350w from your head that's available in 4ohms.

If both outputs have 8ohms next to them, is it possible that it means you can't just run a single 4ohm cab from it? The only way to achieve 4 ohms is to have 2 8ohm cabs? I'm not an expert anyway so I might be wrong.

Any way, it should work out, as has been said, 2 outputs from 240W doesn't mean 120W a side, they're both in the same channel so it'll actually go up to the 350W for both.

[AlanP2008]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='743829' date='Feb 13 2010, 11:16 AM']If both outputs have 8ohms next to them, is it possible that it means you can't just run a single 4ohm cab from it? The only way to achieve 4 ohms is to have 2 8ohm cabs? I'm not an expert anyway so I might be wrong.

Any way, it should work out, as has been said, 2 outputs from 240W doesn't mean 120W a side, they're both in the same channel so it'll actually go up to the 350W for both.[/quote]
The first part of your posting was correct, but the above is incorrect.

Two outputs from a mono amp, each marked 8 ohms, is a reasonable marking but not too helpful (and potentially misleading if you don't understand about speaker impedance).

Yes, either one or two 8 ohm cabs can be plugged in, and that would probably be the normal case (and two x 8ohms in parallel gives 4 ohms).
However, a single 4 ohm cab may also be used, although that isn't explicitly stated.

From the ratings, with an 8 ohm load the amp will provide 240W, with a 4 ohm load it will deliver 350W total, and if the 4 ohm load consists of two 8 ohm cabinets, then those cabinets will share that 350W - ie. 175W per cab...

...And you might also want to ponder on the idea that in an 8 ohm cab containing 4 separate drivers, each of those drivers will be sharing the total that the cab is receiving...

Hope this helps.
Alan

Edited February 13, 2010 by AlanP2008

[steelman]

I use one of these with a Hartke 2X10 cab and Ashdown MAG 115 and I've not had it above half volume for some large pubs competing with a mic'd drum kit and loud guitarist using 2 2X12 Blackstar cabs. If we go to bigger venues then it will go through the PA anyway. You must be making alot of racket for it not to be loud enough!

[MIJ-VI]

[url="http://www.prestonelectronics.com/audio/Impedance.htm"]Meditations on Speaker Impedance ("OHMmmmmmmmm")[/url]

[Bassulike66]

Clear as mud lads..lol.

It's sinking in i think..thanx for all the input

[TenLetters]

You must be making some serious nosie with these to have it turned up that far and still be struggling to hear it!

I have no idea how you have your amp set up but you might find that using the E.Q to dial in a few more mids to you sound and take out some lows, which take a lot of power to amplify and might not be projected well by the cabs, makes it easier for you to hear yourself. Like you say the acoustics there will be shocking too so that will not help one bit.

Forgive me if that sounds patronising, i really dont mean it to. I just seems that strange that your set up is not enough at the moment. Of course it may just be that you are far more 'Rawk' than a few of us on here!

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='AlanP2008' post='743863' date='Feb 13 2010, 11:59 AM']The first part of your posting was correct, but the above is incorrect.

Two outputs from a mono amp, each marked 8 ohms, is a reasonable marking but not too helpful (and potentially misleading if you don't understand about speaker impedance).

Yes, either one or two 8 ohm cabs can be plugged in, and that would probably be the normal case (and two x 8ohms in parallel gives 4 ohms).
However, a single 4 ohm cab may also be used, although that isn't explicitly stated.

From the ratings, with an 8 ohm load the amp will provide 240W, with a 4 ohm load it will deliver 350W total, and if the 4 ohm load consists of two 8 ohm cabinets, then those cabinets will share that 350W - ie. 175W per cab...

...And you might also want to ponder on the idea that in an 8 ohm cab containing 4 separate drivers, each of those drivers will be sharing the total that the cab is receiving...

Hope this helps.
Alan[/quote]

Ah ok thanks, I wasn't sure about the last bit. I just went for the simple option and bought a head and cab that were advertised together.

[Bassulike66]

[quote name='TenLetters' post='744129' date='Feb 13 2010, 04:43 PM']You must be making some serious nosie with these to have it turned up that far and still be struggling to hear it!

I have no idea how you have your amp set up but you might find that using the E.Q to dial in a few more mids to you sound and take out some lows, which take a lot of power to amplify and might not be projected well by the cabs, makes it easier for you to hear yourself. Like you say the acoustics there will be shocking too so that will not help one bit.

Forgive me if that sounds patronising, i really dont mean it to. I just seems that strange that your set up is not enough at the moment. Of course it may just be that you are far more 'Rawk' than a few of us on here![/quote]



Ahh!!...now then, i don't use any mids at all if i can help it....i do however use a lot of lows and top end.

I'll give those mids a tweakin' next time we rehearse and i'll let you know.

'Rawk'!! at my age!?!?...

We do have it large when we get going lol..but it's only really since we've been in this bloody village hall. The drums just sound absolutely huge!! How do you tell a drummer to go lightly???..hahahahahaha.

[TenLetters]

Hmm, well with any luck adding a touch of Mid and rolling off a bit on the lows will make your sound cut through the mix a bit more. Might not work but worth a try at least.

Ha, yeah good luck with the drummer thing....like trying to communicate with a primate in my experience.

Another thuought....Hartke have a section in the Affiliates forum on here so if you still get troubles it migth be worth asking a question in there?

Hope things work out ok!

[Paul_C]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='743829' date='Feb 13 2010, 11:16 AM']If both outputs have 8ohms next to them, is it possible that it means you can't just run a single 4ohm cab from it? The only way to achieve 4 ohms is to have 2 8ohm cabs? I'm not an expert anyway so I might be wrong. [/quote]

you could have 4 x 16 ohm cabs

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='Paul_C' post='744238' date='Feb 13 2010, 07:09 PM']you could have 4 x 16 ohm cabs [/quote]

Not with 2 outputs. Unless you modified your amp, of course. Or would it work if you used splitter leads? Could be an interesting theory for anyone wanting more cabs without forking out for a new amp.

[Merton]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='744289' date='Feb 13 2010, 08:10 PM']Not with 2 outputs. Unless you modified your amp, of course. Or would it work if you used splitter leads? Could be an interesting theory for anyone wanting more cabs without forking out for a new amp. [/quote]
You can daisy chain two cabs from each output, most have parallel connections on 'em

[Paul_C]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='744289' date='Feb 13 2010, 08:10 PM']Not with 2 outputs. Unless you modified your amp, of course. Or would it work if you used splitter leads? Could be an interesting theory for anyone wanting more cabs without forking out for a new amp. [/quote]


[quote name='Merton' post='744296' date='Feb 13 2010, 08:22 PM']You can daisy chain two cabs from each output, most have parallel connections on 'em [/quote]

nyer

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='Paul_C' post='744323' date='Feb 13 2010, 09:07 PM']nyer [/quote]

I'm terrified of my 210 turning up, I'll probably have it in pieces before it's even turned on. Hopefully the GK 4 pin speakons are pretty self explanatory. hehe

[MIJ-VI]

[quote name='Bassulike66' post='744163' date='Feb 13 2010, 12:24 PM']Ahh!!...now then, i don't use any mids at all if i can help it....i do however use a lot of lows and top end.

I'll give those mids a tweakin' next time we rehearse and i'll let you know.

'Rawk'!! at my age!?!?...

We do have it large when we get going lol..but it's only really since we've been in this bloody village hall. The drums just sound absolutely huge!! How do you tell a drummer to go lightly???..hahahahahaha.[/quote]

Hi Bassulike66.

A useful approach to achieving an electric bass tone which defines well in a mix is to...

Make sure the bass is properly set up so that it:

- plays well (proper neck relief and appropriate string height at its bridge & nut)

- plays in tune on every note (correct intonation adjustment at the bass' bridge)

- and so that its pickups are adjusted parallel with the pick-guard (this helps insure that all the strings will be amplified to ~ the same apparent volume) and close enough to the strings for a good string capture/strong electrical output, yet far enough away to avoid excess magnet damping of the string's vibrations (leading to a loss of sustain and weird out-of-tune harmonics).

An electric bass which has a dynamic acoustic response {a big, loud, ringing timbre}, as well as a good amplified tone, is the goal of this setup procedure.

Then...

Set the amp's EQ flat (few bass rigs are truly flat, but the aim here is to amplify the instrument's entire frequency range to an equal degree) -->turn the rig up as loud as it needs to be (short of potentially speaker-killing power amp clipping/distortion)-->then [i]tweak[/i] the EQ slightly to compensate for room acoustics and/or competition from other instruments (which tends to mask portions of the bass' sound--especially the mids).

Boosting the lows out of proportion with the mids (the scooped mids 'bedroom tone') is a sure-fire way to get a flabby, muddy sound in an ensemble setting which will also eat up power amp headroom to the point where the amp clips more easily thus possibly imperiling speakers.

My .02.

Gary

Edited February 14, 2010 by MIJ-VI