Practicing

[jakenewmanbass]

I came across this on the Marcus Miller site. Marcus said he included it (it's by Herbie Hancock) because of the message in it.
I couldn't agree more with the sentiments and think it's a great read.
QUOTE

"The following text is not from Marcus but an excerpt from an interview Herbie Hancock did with the Detroit Free Press. Marcus asked me to put it here because he loves what Herbie has to say. The full interview text is online.
HANCOCK: One word Wayne and I use that sums it up is: possibilities. Limitless possibilities.
FREE PRESS: How do you do that if you don't practice?
HANCOCK: There's so much spontaneity involved, what do you practice? How do you practice teamwork? How do you practice sharing? How do you practice daring? How do you practice being nonjudgmental? Life itself is the practice.
FREE PRESS: You have to have extraordinary command of the fundamentals to play this way.
HANCOCK: Yes. But these ideas are very different than if your goal was to be a virtuoso. I decided years ago that I wasn't interested in being a virtuoso of the piano. The value of music is not dazzling yourself and others with technique. The value of music is to be able to play one note at the right time in the right way.
FREE PRESS: But you are a virtuoso.
HANCOCK: Nah, I'm not. Keith Jarrett's a virtuoso. Chick Corea is a virtuoso. Actually, I do want to start practicing. Wayne Shorter told me something recently that I never thought about before: Sometimes you can practice something but what you wind up playing when you're out doing a gig is not what you practiced. What you learn is not necessarily what you practice.
When I was coming up, I practiced all the time because I thought if I didn't I couldn't do my best. But when I was with Miles, he would never practice. His practice would be as we're walking onstage he would play a chromatic scale -- brrrrrrrrrip!"

[Stylon Pilson]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='746027' date='Feb 15 2010, 04:02 PM']His practice would be as we're walking onstage he would play a chromatic scale -- brrrrrrrrrip!"[/quote]

Is this a reference to flatulence?

S.P.

[TKenrick]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='746027' date='Feb 15 2010, 04:02 PM']"The value of music is to be able to play one note at the right time in the right way."[/quote]


Couldn't agree with this more.


Great post Jake, thanks for sharing.


Tom

[Wil]

Great way of looking at it, and it makes me feel even better about not being bothered to practice most of the time

[thunderbird13]

I dont get it - is he saying dont practice cos you'll play it differently live anyway

[Faithless]

So, what's the point of it?


I mean, it's clear, that there are two sides when in comes to practising - to do [i]it[/i], actually, to work your butt off (as Ron Carter did and helluva other jazz greats did, and, emmm... I actually do, except, I'm no jazz great..), or, not practice at all.


Jake, I assume, that you're saying, it's not worth to do individual practice?

I know, it sounds neat, but, then again, I can't see anything more past what you just put in front of us.

[Marvin]

If it's not worth practising I may as well sell up now, as I will always be sh1t!

[Wil]

This line sums it up beautifully:

"The value of music is not dazzling yourself and others with technique. The value of music is to be able to play one note at the right time in the right way."

Basically, don't waste your life woodshedding when there is as much value and joy to be taken from one note played in the right context. That is a skill that comes from playing with other people and listening, not just sat in your bedroom practicing modes or whatever.

[discreet]

[quote name='thunderbird13' post='746128' date='Feb 15 2010, 05:16 PM']I dont get it - is he saying dont practice cos you'll play it differently live anyway [/quote]

I think he's saying you wouldn't play... that thing... live if you [i]hadn't[/i] practiced. Or something.

Edited February 15, 2010 by discreet

[Doddy]

It's easy to misunderstand that quote.
The fact is that Herbie practised and studied for years before saying that,and he can now approach
things in a different way because his grasp of the fundamentals is so solid. He's paid his dues both on
stage and in the woodshed.
I understand where he's coming from,but-and this is the important thing-he is Herbie Hancock.
Jaco said in his video that most of his practise is without the bass in his hands,and a load of
players took it the wrong way. He had spent so long with the instrument previously that he knew
exactly how it worked and could concentrate on music.

Only when you have such a solid grasp on the fundamentals of music,and your chosen instrument,can
you start to approach it in this way.

[Pete Academy]

I can't be bothered to practice, even though I'm surrounded by basses all day. Maybe that's why? I keep telling myself I'll practice more, but I think you learn much more by playing gigs.

[Doddy]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='746441' date='Feb 15 2010, 08:13 PM']I keep telling myself I'll practice more, but I think you learn much more by playing gigs.[/quote]

You learn different things on gigs. What you study in the practise room should eventually
come out in your playing.
Fundamentals are learnt by practising. Application is learnt on gigs.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='746441' date='Feb 15 2010, 08:13 PM'][...] but I think you learn much more by playing gigs.[/quote]
It was at a gig that I learned that I should have practised.

[XB26354]

... and it's worth mentioning that all that practice and woodshedding may lead you to play that one note at the right time, in the right way. Great players play simple stuff beautifully. There are musicians that just want to play fast, or complicated, but all the great musicians I've ever heard know the simple as well as the complicated. Indeed, the whole point about getting better is that you play less, but make each note count more. Practice opens your eyes to options. The more options you have, the more likely you will, over time, choose the right option for a given situation. I've heard Gary Willis say something similar in a clinic. It's fine to come out with a statement like that when you've played thousands of gigs and recorded with top players for years!

[Major-Minor]

Practice isn't just something you do when you start learning an instrument.

I've been playing for over 40 years and I still need to practice.

For me there are three main aspects to practice:

1. To warm up the fingers, to strengthen all the muscles, to feel as one with the instrument.
2. To get my fingers around a particularly difficult passage or technical bit that someone else is asking me to play - like a composer or arranger or producer.
3. To find new ways to approach my own creative playing, to create lines, motifs, licks, riffs , tricks - or whatever else you want to call it.

To be honest, I wish I could find more time to practice these days. After a long day of maybe 5 or 6 hours rehearsal or performance, its hard to find the enthusiasm to do more playing. But on a day or morning off, I always try to do enough to make me feel prepared for the next day or session.

Playing on gigs or performing in concerts is actually quite bad for your technique. By which i mean that you can develop all sorts of bad habits that you then need to sort out in practice time.

If I do manage a day or two without playing, it always takes me another half day to feel I'm back to where I was before the break.

The Major

[Marvin]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='746456' date='Feb 15 2010, 08:23 PM']It was at a gig that I learned that I should have practised. [/quote]
I'm nominating that as quote of the thread.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='Doddy' post='746429' date='Feb 15 2010, 08:06 PM']It's easy to misunderstand that quote.
The fact is that Herbie practised and studied for years before saying that,and he can now approach
things in a different way because his grasp of the fundamentals is so solid. He's paid his dues both on
stage and in the woodshed.
I understand where he's coming from,but-and this is the important thing-he is Herbie Hancock.
Jaco said in his video that most of his practise is without the bass in his hands,and a load of
players took it the wrong way. He had spent so long with the instrument previously that he knew
exactly how it worked and could concentrate on music.

Only when you have such a solid grasp on the fundamentals of music,and your chosen instrument,can
you start to approach it in this way.[/quote]
Exactly...

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='XB26354' post='746466' date='Feb 15 2010, 08:28 PM']... and it's worth mentioning that all that practice and woodshedding may lead you to play that one note at the right time, in the right way. Great players play simple stuff beautifully. There are musicians that just want to play fast, or complicated, but all the great musicians I've ever heard know the simple as well as the complicated. Indeed, the whole point about getting better is that you play less, but make each note count more. Practice opens your eyes to options. The more options you have, the more likely you will, over time, choose the right option for a given situation. I've heard Gary Willis say something similar in a clinic. It's fine to come out with a statement like that when you've played thousands of gigs and recorded with top players for years![/quote]
again... exactly

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='Major-Minor' post='746481' date='Feb 15 2010, 08:37 PM']Practice isn't just something you do when you start learning an instrument.

I've been playing for over 40 years and I still need to practice.

For me there are three main aspects to practice:

1. To warm up the fingers, to strengthen all the muscles, to feel as one with the instrument.
2. To get my fingers around a particularly difficult passage or technical bit that someone else is asking me to play - like a composer or arranger or producer.
3. To find new ways to approach my own creative playing, to create lines, motifs, licks, riffs , tricks - or whatever else you want to call it.

To be honest, I wish I could find more time to practice these days. After a long day of maybe 5 or 6 hours rehearsal or performance, its hard to find the enthusiasm to do more playing. But on a day or morning off, I always try to do enough to make me feel prepared for the next day or session.

Playing on gigs or performing in concerts is actually quite bad for your technique. By which i mean that you can develop all sorts of bad habits that you then need to sort out in practice time.

If I do manage a day or two without playing, it always takes me another half day to feel I'm back to where I was before the break.

The Major[/quote]
and again... I don't need to say it

[jakenewmanbass]

I think the major point is that there is something a lot more than just notes to music. Grasping that takes more than mere woodshedding.
Herbie and Wayne Shorter are on a Joni Mitchell album called both sides now... on that album you can hear exactly what they are getting at in those sentiments there is not flash moment on the album but both of them can kill you from a hundred yards with just one note...

[urb]

All I can add to the profundity and accuracy of what has already been stated here is that I have tp physically practice playing - to retain muscle memory etc and basic technique - but like as has been said already it's the esoteric side of music that needs to be explored to really grasp (or have any hope of grasping) the real depths of the possibilities that are almost too many and too vast to comprehend.... but I still need to practice plucking the damn notes....


M

[Wil]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='746506' date='Feb 15 2010, 08:52 PM']I think the major point is that there is something a lot more than just notes to music. Grasping that takes more than mere woodshedding.
Herbie and Wayne Shorter are on a Joni Mitchell album called both sides now... on that album you can hear exactly what they are getting at in those sentiments there is not flash moment on the album [b]but both of them can kill you from a hundred yards with just one note...[/b][/quote]

I like that phrase. Dave Gilmour and Jeff Beck spring to mind.

[Faithless]

[quote name='Doddy' post='746429' date='Feb 15 2010, 10:06 PM']It's easy to misunderstand that quote.
The fact is that Herbie practised and studied for years before saying that,and he can now approach
things in a different way because his grasp of the fundamentals is so solid. He's paid his dues both on
stage and in the woodshed.
I understand where he's coming from,but-and this is the important thing-he is Herbie Hancock.
Jaco said in his video that most of his practise is without the bass in his hands,and a load of
players took it the wrong way. He had spent so long with the instrument previously that he knew
exactly how it worked and could concentrate on music.

Only when you have such a solid grasp on the fundamentals of music,and your chosen instrument,can
you start to approach it in this way.[/quote]


[quote name='Doddy' post='746448' date='Feb 15 2010, 10:18 PM']You learn different things on gigs. What you study in the practise room should eventually
come out in your playing.
Fundamentals are learnt by practising. Application is learnt on gigs.[/quote]

[i]Very [/i]good points, there, Doddy..

[The Funk]

You have to take that interview with a pinch of salt. Herbie Hancock IS a virtuoso! And I don't think he's saying that Chick Corea, as a virtuoso, doesn't know what music is all about.

I think what he's getting at is that you can't practice creating art, and that when are creating art, you can't be an automaton who simply reproduces his practice regime.

[Marvin]

[quote name='The Funk' post='746680' date='Feb 15 2010, 11:18 PM']You have to take that interview with a pinch of salt. Herbie Hancock IS a virtuoso! And I don't think he's saying that Chick Corea, as a virtuoso, doesn't know what music is all about.

[b]I think what he's getting at is that you can't practice creating art, and that when are creating art, you can't be an automaton who simply reproduces his practice regime.[/b][/quote]
That would make particular sense.