Advice sought: B-string on Jazz V

[martindupras]

I've been using Warwick Black Label stainless steel strings on my basses for several years. I love them, and never had a problem with them until today.

I've just acquired a Fender Jazz V, which has all five tuners on one side.

I've just been changing the strings for brand new 45-135 Black Labels.

As usual, I start with the low B, string it in the bridge, and cut off the excess string two tuners away from that string's tuner. I put the cut end of the string inside the slot in the tuner, bend it a little to keep it in place, then start tuning up, pulling the string gently as I wind. So far so good.

After about one turn and half, loud snap on the string: the *core* has broken, and now as I keep winding, the tuner is only pulling the outer two windings.

I thought that either I'd done something wrong or I had the first defective warwick string I'd ever encountered.

However, I just tried with a second identical Warwick Black Label 135, and the exact same thing has happened.

What would anyone advise?

Cheers,

- martin

[essexbasscat]

where did the strings break? was it the same place?

T

[martindupras]

Yes, the strings broke in the same place. Just about where the string meets the tuning post.

- martin


[quote name='essexbasscat' post='751292' date='Feb 19 2010, 07:33 PM']where did the strings break? was it the same place?

T[/quote]

[essexbasscat]

so would I be correct in thnking that winding the string on bends the string back at an angle about 90 degrees where it leaves the slot to wind around the post i.e. precision, jazz style and this is the place where it breaks with both strings ?

cheers

T

[martindupras]

Not quite. It doesn't break in the bit of the string wound around the post, but the bit hanging between the post and the nut, but nearest the tuning post.

- martin


[quote name='essexbasscat' post='751335' date='Feb 19 2010, 08:19 PM']so would I be correct in thnking that winding the string on bends the string back at an angle about 90 degrees where it leaves the slot to wind around the post i.e. precision, jazz style and this is the place where it breaks with both strings ?

cheers

T[/quote]

[gabson]

i guess its to do with bending the string or flexing the string too much. i couldnt believe it when i broke the core of a low B by adjusting the intonation. it's becuase i had been flexing one area of the string until it had had enough.

Not sure of a way to remedy it apart from perhaps revising your winding technique?

Pain in the arse

[martindupras]

It is a right pain.

I don't quite know what to do. First of all, at £10 a B-string, I'm not too keen on just "experimenting". I'd rather get at the root of the problem and have a strategy that leads to a solution.

The second thing is that I don't quite see what I can change in the winding technique that may make things any different.

The only thing I can think of at the moment is that the string is triple-wound, and my guess is that three layers shouldn't get on the post, just two. That's what happens on my other basses. Warwick Black Labels come in long-scale (35") and medium-scale (34"). These are medium-scale strings so you'd think they were designed to fit on a Jazz Bass, hardly the most esoteric of basses.

Any suggestions on how I can improve my winding technique, if you think that'll help?

- martin


[quote name='gabson' post='751462' date='Feb 19 2010, 11:28 PM']i guess its to do with bending the string or flexing the string too much. i couldnt believe it when i broke the core of a low B by adjusting the intonation. it's becuase i had been flexing one area of the string until it had had enough.

Not sure of a way to remedy it apart from perhaps revising your winding technique?

Pain in the arse[/quote]

[JTUK]

I don't know this set of strings but as you say hardly unknown territory for them.

I do prefer tapered strings to wind on better, but even so, I'd be putting this down to a bad set of strings.
I like the taper over the bridge ( as in Super Steps ) AND the nut.
I think DR do strings that taper down at the nut properly...but agree that until you get these strings out of the pack, you aren't sure how they will fit on the bass.

I'd say one break is bad luck, but two..????

I can see how a string might break prematurely over a stress point but not between the post on the nut...that sounds like fatigue and these are new strings.

Also, I always like to see strings wind on straight to the post and not at any sort of angle. Apart from the latter looking like a design fault, IMV, straighter winding strings should survive multiple rewinds.

Can you put an old set back on just to see if there isn't an inherrent issue with the post.. ?

[martindupras]

I've put the old string back on, and it's fine.

As far as I can tell, the design of the string is the problem. Tapering of the string at both ends would effectively solve the problem.

Do you think I have grounds to ask either the music store or Warwick for replacement strings? Technically, the strings are advertised as being appropriate for a 34" scale 5-string bass. That's what I have. It should fit, otherwise it's not fit for purpose, is it?

- martin


[quote name='JTUK' post='751649' date='Feb 20 2010, 11:09 AM']I don't know this set of strings but as you say hardly unknown territory for them.

I do prefer tapered strings to wind on better, but even so, I'd be putting this down to a bad set of strings.
I like the taper over the bridge ( as in Super Steps ) AND the nut.
I think DR do strings that taper down at the nut properly...but agree that until you get these strings out of the pack, you aren't sure how they will fit on the bass.

I'd say one break is bad luck, but two..????

I can see how a string might break prematurely over a stress point but not between the post on the nut...that sounds like fatigue and these are new strings.

Also, I always like to see strings wind on straight to the post and not at any sort of angle. Apart from the latter looking like a design fault, IMV, straighter winding strings should survive multiple rewinds.

Can you put an old set back on just to see if there isn't an inherrent issue with the post.. ?[/quote]

[JTUK]

With regards to asking for your money back... hmmmm
I think asking is the only thing left open to you, and you could hint that you are mightily p***d off about 2 injustifiable breaks...to you mind,
and point to a bad batch.
The shop might help you out...as might Warwick, as in goodwill, but these are difficult times so they might just say you
are at fault..and get a stalemate situation.

If they help out, then you be that loyal customer for a while,..because that is all that is in it for them, and if they don't then, you need to find another string that works and supplier that works.

Off on a tangent, I note that strings are the same price as they were 15 years ago.... so maybe quality isn't the same, but prooving you weren't at fault isn't going to work, IMV, and you are at their mercy as to whether they want to do the decent thing.

If they sent you a replacment B and the 3rd broke, then I would write off those strings as being suitable for that bass...

You can but try...and tell them that the old string works fine..

I would clean that set up and put them back on anyway..and if the shop is close, you could get them to put the string on..just to show them that it isn't your fault the strings break..

As I say, if the strings breaks in between the post and the nut and not at either of those two points, then this is a really weird place for a string to break..and the sort of thing that would only really happen if over tensioning them... very odd, IMV..

FWIW, I have only ever had one string break on me through fatigue... in more years than I care to remember..and I reuse my strings many times over..
I did break 2 strings when I first got a bass..and that was over tightening them...but I was just a kid who didn't know what he was doing at that time...so I don't think it is a very common thing to happen at all..IME.


Let us know what the shop say.....

[martindupras]

Thanks for the advice.

I don't think anyone can claim that I am at fault here. I bought strings made for a 34" 5-string bass, and I put them on a 34" 5-string bass. I put them on exactly as is recommended by Fender. But you're right, Warwick may very tell me that it's not their problem.

I won't try to put the same strings on that bass. I think they're just not suitable. I will ask for a replacement for the broken Bs and will use those sets on a different bass.

I'll definitely look into it, but my suspicion is that by law, I am in my rights to ask for a refund. If you buy a Blu-Ray player and it's not compatible with your TV, you'd be entitled to a refund, I don't see how this situation is any different.

Many thanks for all the helpful advice, guys.

- martin

[quote name='JTUK' post='752124' date='Feb 20 2010, 07:47 PM']With regards to asking for your money back... hmmmm
I think asking is the only thing left open to you, and you could hint that you are mightily p***d off about 2 injustifiable breaks...to you mind,
and point to a bad batch.
The shop might help you out...as might Warwick, as in goodwill, but these are difficult times so they might just say you
are at fault..and get a stalemate situation.

If they help out, then you be that loyal customer for a while,..because that is all that is in it for them, and if they don't then, you need to find another string that works and supplier that works.

Off on a tangent, I note that strings are the same price as they were 15 years ago.... so maybe quality isn't the same, but prooving you weren't at fault isn't going to work, IMV, and you are at their mercy as to whether they want to do the decent thing.

If they sent you a replacment B and the 3rd broke, then I would write off those strings as being suitable for that bass...

You can but try...and tell them that the old string works fine..

I would clean that set up and put them back on anyway..and if the shop is close, you could get them to put the string on..just to show them that it isn't your fault the strings break..

As I say, if the strings breaks in between the post and the nut and not at either of those two points, then this is a really weird place for a string to break..and the sort of thing that would only really happen if over tensioning them... very odd, IMV..

FWIW, I have only ever had one string break on me through fatigue... in more years than I care to remember..and I reuse my strings many times over..
I did break 2 strings when I first got a bass..and that was over tightening them...but I was just a kid who didn't know what he was doing at that time...so I don't think it is a very common thing to happen at all..IME.


Let us know what the shop say.....[/quote]

[martindupras]

Just a quick update.

After contacting Thomann and sending them a photo of the broken strings, they have agreed to send me brand new replacements of the strings (full packs, not just the broken ones.) They didn't make a fuss, and I didn't have to chase it up.

+1 for Thomann customer service from me.

My experience so far with them has been excellent.

- martin

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='martindupras' post='771857' date='Mar 11 2010, 05:25 PM']Just a quick update.

After contacting Thomann and sending them a photo of the broken strings, they have agreed to send me brand new replacements of the strings (full packs, not just the broken ones.) They didn't make a fuss, and I didn't have to chase it up.

+1 for Thomann customer service from me.

My experience so far with them has been excellent.

- martin[/quote]
Good news! That's a great example of how to keep your customers..

[martindupras]

Absolutely.

When it came out I bought a Pod X3 Live from them. It was faulty; pressing on some switches would activate adjacent switches. I returned the unit to Thomann who sent a replacement right away. The replacement had one row and one column of dead pixels (clearly not acceptable) and I returned it to them and asked for my money back. They did, and they didn't cause any fuss.

I like the way that they treat you like professionals and don't waste your time with back and forth non-sense.

In contrast, I've just emailed D'addario with a very specific and carefully worded question about the length of the outer winding on their .135 stainless steel strings, and they replied with a stupid answer saying I should measure the scale length on my bass.

Yeah, treat me like a dumbass, that will just make me want to buy your products.

- martin


[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='772128' date='Mar 11 2010, 09:23 PM']Good news! That's a great example of how to keep your customers..[/quote]