Slappers!

[velvetkevorkian]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='754978' date='Feb 23 2010, 01:26 PM']Is it just that Basschat's just littered with Mark King wannabes?[/quote]
Probably

[Doddy]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='754978' date='Feb 23 2010, 01:26 PM']I'm quite astonished (only quite, though ) at the way "thumb up" is winning. I hadn't even considered it as a sensible option for slapping. You've got to have a [b]seriously[/b] short strap to pull that off, surely? Is it just that Basschat's just littered with Mark King wannabes?[/quote]

Why the surprise? I think that it's a better way to play than thumb down. I find that it gives
you way more control and accuracy if you have your thumb either pointing up or parallel
to the strings. I've found that having your thumb pointing down pretty much limits you to
playing octaves.
You don't need a super short strap either-I have my bass at the same height standing as
sitting. And I don't particularly like Mark King.

[Conan]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='754978' date='Feb 23 2010, 01:26 PM']I'm quite astonished (only quite, though ) at the way "thumb up" is winning. I hadn't even considered it as a sensible option for slapping. You've got to have a [b]seriously[/b] short strap to pull that off, surely? Is it just that Basschat's just littered with Mark King wannabes?[/quote]

Possibly... It also depends on the way you hold your thumb! Some people's thumbs curve back on themselves so although the first joint might be parallel to the strings, the end joint could be almost perpendicular!

I play vaguely in the Mark King style and certainly don't wear my bass under my chin (too high a risk of carpal tunnel syndrome in my playing hand when not slapping!). I guess it all depends on the position of your forearm, hand and thumb. Some people are more flexible than others...

The main reason I am finding double-thumb techniques difficult to master is due to the upright position of my thumb! Nearly thirty years of practice makes it hard to change...

[The Funk]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='754992' date='Feb 23 2010, 01:36 PM']I stand corrected. [/quote]

I wish all discussions in life were as simple as this.

[JTUK]

I started off with thumbs down, and then went level after a while.

I posted that I play thumbs up but in reality it is just the last part of the thumb that might point slightly up.
If I follow through for a double thump..altho this term doesn't make sense to what you actually do.. my thumb levels out as
you tilt the wrist. You may also have to have the thumb pointing down so you can engage a finger for a pull-off

In reality, the action is, thump down through the string, flick thumb up for the double stroke and then pull-off with a finger.

Depending on which finger you want to use, might dictate the angle you have to strike the string.
Like most things in bass, these things evolve as you add more tricks and only when someone asks a specific question, do you go back and see how you do these things..

[JTUK]

And no, never tried to ape Mark King's style. ....it just made everyone sound the same as he was up there on his own for quite a while..

[stevekendal]

[quote name='JTUK' post='755263' date='Feb 23 2010, 05:54 PM']And no, never tried to ape Mark King's style. ....it just made everyone sound the same as he was up there on his own for quite a while..[/quote]

Boring Oldie's turn to speak now! Back in the eighties, when MK was God, I tried for quite a while to perfect the machine gun/typewriter style, buying books, videos etc, but never was much good at it, in spite of being a very competent player. (head swelling, watch out) and eventually resigned myself to making the most of my finger style (octaves, staccato etc). Later on I felt much relieved and vindicated when I got a tape and book by my other hero, the late John Entwistle, in which he freely admitted that he was crap at what he called the "crab claws" style and just made the best of his 4, (yes all 4 at once) fingers. Nowadays I just think that such theatrical displays of technical ability serve only to impress ones fellow players and do little to enhance the music or the enjoyment of it by the audience in general, unless they are all musos themselves. The same also applies to other instruments of course. Just as an aside, if I had indeed been able to do the old slap and tickle thingie, I suspect that after some 30 odd years of it, the arthritis which is only just starting to make playing a bit painful might have been much worse. This also afflicted the non-slapping Carol Kaye. Who? Google her, more hits than Russell Brand. End of lecture.

Edited February 23, 2010 by stevekendal

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='Doddy' post='754996' date='Feb 23 2010, 01:39 PM']Why the surprise? I think that it's a better way to play than thumb down. I find that it gives
you way more control and accuracy if you have your thumb either pointing up or parallel
to the strings. I've found that having your thumb pointing down pretty much limits you to
playing octaves.
You don't need a super short strap either-I have my bass at the same height standing as
sitting. And I don't particularly like Mark King.[/quote]
I think the surprise stems from the fact that every instructional book/video/teacher/YouTube clip/bit of written advice/whatever that I've seen on slap recommends having the thumb parallel to the strings. I can understand why some might slap with their thumb down (you can maintain your usual low-slung position... if you usually sling low anyway), and I agree that it'd probably be hugely limiting to do that. But thumb [i]up[/i] just feels uncomfortable unless I've got the instrument embedded in my wattle. Everybody's a different shape, though. A lot of things that work for others don't work for me, and vice-versa.

I suppose slap is a relatively new technique on a still-young instrument in the grand scheme of all music, so people will have different ways of doing it. Hence my OP.

[Conan]

Actually, I've just had a proper look and my thumb, which I previously THOUGHT was pointing up, is in reality parallel to the strings most of the time!

Jeez, if I can't even analyse my OWN technique, how can i comment on anyone else's?!

[The Funk]

[quote name='Conan' post='755396' date='Feb 23 2010, 08:01 PM']Actually, I've just had a proper look and my thumb, which I previously THOUGHT was pointing up, is in reality parallel to the strings most of the time![/quote]

Most of us thumb up players probably turn into parallel thumb players the faster we get.

[Pete Academy]

When I first heard slapping back in the 70s, I wasn't sure what was being done and how. I saw the Crusaders on the OGWT and Robert 'Pops' Popwell (great name!) was slapping. To me it looked like he was pinging the strings with his finger ends. Cue a few weeks of sore finger ends and crap sound until I discovered what he was really doing.

I'm a big fan of MK but have never achieved the machine-gun slap properly. I've always preferred and played more like Marcus, something more melodic and groovy.

[4 Strings]

I think MK is great, of course there's always an argument of the musical value of being machine gunned (similarly to shredding Les Pauls). But I regard him like an F1 racing car, lots of extreme technology etc some of which filters down to benefit 'normal' cars. Regardless of how talented Pop Powell is, it was MK who inspired me and kept the bar high. MK did plenty of other, more worthy stuff and loved the whole bass thing.

(Despite seeing L42 plenty of times in the 80s the most memorable was a latter day version in a small club in Essex (with Gary Husband - worth the ticket price alone) where things were less serious and more up close. The guy is amazing!

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='4 Strings' post='755878' date='Feb 24 2010, 10:22 AM']I think MK is great, of course there's always an argument of the musical value of being machine gunned (similarly to shredding Les Pauls). But I regard him like an F1 racing car, lots of extreme technology etc some of which filters down to benefit 'normal' cars. Regardless of how talented Pop Powell is, it was MK who inspired me and kept the bar high. MK did plenty of other, more worthy stuff and loved the whole bass thing.

(Despite seeing L42 plenty of times in the 80s the most memorable was a latter day version in a small club in Essex (with Gary Husband - worth the ticket price alone) where things were less serious and more up close. The guy is amazing![/quote]

Their very first album with Mr Pink on it is a classic. Love Games is also one of my favourite tracks and bass part ever.

[MythSte]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='755888' date='Feb 24 2010, 10:33 AM']Their very first album with Mr Pink on it is a classic. Love Games is also one of my favourite tracks and bass part ever.[/quote]

Quick question for you, In the Chorus Section of 'Peg' by steely dan, Is it double thumbed or just a very fast "normal" slap technique on the doubles?

[Master blaster]

I think they're both different techniques that are used to accomplish different results. Its good to do both as it will increase your playing vocabulary.

[Doddy]

[quote name='MythSte' post='755915' date='Feb 24 2010, 10:57 AM']Quick question for you, In the Chorus Section of 'Peg' by steely dan, Is it double thumbed or just a very fast "normal" slap technique on the doubles?[/quote]

I don't think Chuck Rainey used a double thumb on 'Peg'. I'm pretty sure it's a standard
thumb technique.
It's not that fast-it's just a matter of controlling the rebound of the thumb.

[Bay Splayer]

when i learnt to slap my thumbs normal resting position was bent back

i then ruptured the extensor tendon ([i]Extensor Pollicis Longus[/i]) in my thumb so had to re-learn my technique with a straight thumb

i am currently awaiting an operation to mend it, then will probably have to re-learn

[sshorepunk]

Thread deleted after reading bio on person playing!

Tony

Edited February 24, 2010 by sshorepunk

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='MythSte' post='755915' date='Feb 24 2010, 10:57 AM']Quick question for you, In the Chorus Section of 'Peg' by steely dan, Is it double thumbed or just a very fast "normal" slap technique on the doubles?[/quote]

I would think Rainey played it straight, as double-thumbing wasn't around then (I think). If you watch the 'Making Of Aja' DVD, Rainey has an unusual slap style which is hard to replicate.

I just play it my own way. Seems to work OK.

[Doddy]

In all fairness to the guy in the video.....if you read his bio on
Youtube he says he has autism.

[MythSte]

[quote name='Doddy' post='756048' date='Feb 24 2010, 01:30 PM']It's not that fast-it's just a matter of controlling the rebound of the thumb.[/quote]

Yeah, this is where im struggling. Thanks

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='MythSte' post='756478' date='Feb 24 2010, 08:47 PM']Yeah, this is where im struggling. Thanks [/quote]

Slap bass is hard to master. Just keep at it. You'll get it eventually.

[MythSte]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='756485' date='Feb 24 2010, 08:52 PM']Slap bass is hard to master. Just keep at it. You'll get it eventually. [/quote]

Im not bad at slapping in general, Its just a really odd rhythm in that section. We cover the song occasionally for fun and i can get through it without to much hassle but it'd be nice to play it right! I think doddy was right, i need to control my thumb bouncing perhaps!

[JTUK]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='756392' date='Feb 24 2010, 07:33 PM']I would think Rainey played it straight, as double-thumbing wasn't around then (I think). If you watch the 'Making Of Aja' DVD, Rainey has an unusual slap style which is hard to replicate.

I just play it my own way. Seems to work OK. [/quote]


This is correct, IMV.. Rainey was unconventional as a slapper at that time..
He will slap the root note and pull and slap the octave and 7th which might not be anything to wonder about now, but back then, it probably was different. He also used a P-bass thud type sound to such an extent that it was hard to pick out how he played it by the sounds alone. Even Becker and Fagan couldn't hear it at the time and it was only the root note thumbing that gave it away to bass players. Becker and Fagan didn't want slapping on their records back then as it was the vogue style. One reason why Miller..who was playing and slapping on everything else in New York at that time only appeared on one track of theirs..and that was on Aja and played fingerstyle.
I did think it funny that Tom Barney did the SD '93 world tour and he made his name as a doubler for Miller, IIRC.

I think Larry Graham had a a bit of a double thumbing thing going on...but nowhere near the extent of its use and sound of today..IMO.

[Doddy]

[quote name='JTUK' post='757643' date='Feb 25 2010, 10:05 PM']One reason why Miller..who was playing and slapping on everything else in New York at that time only appeared on one track of theirs..and that was on Aja and played fingerstyle.[/quote]

Marcus Miller didn't play on Aja...... Walter Becker played on 'Deacon Blues' and the rest was Chuck Rainey. In
fact,I don't think he played on any Steely Dan album-although he played on a few tracks on Donald Fagan's
awesome 'Nightfly' album