How Can You Justify Spending £5,350 on a New Bass??

[discreet]

[quote name='witterth' post='755481' date='Feb 23 2010, 08:56 PM']that guitar is....is well..a... a "double header"[/quote]

[xilddx]

[quote name='TimR' post='755473' date='Feb 23 2010, 08:50 PM']Ultimately supply and demand set the price. If the demand is not there at that price and the price cannot drop then the item will not sell.[/quote]
S&D do not set the price. You may think you can predict demand for something like this, but there are too many variables to do that with any useful accuracy in this case. This bass does not solve any significant problems, its aesthetic is its USP. The only thing weighing in its favour is that supply is extremely short, hence the exclusivity factor which EBS Freak mentioned earlier. I cannot see a sustainable business unless Mr Farmer markets less expensive aspirational models, which he has done for some time anyway and which has not led to demand requiring him to increase the GUS workforce beyond himself.

He is a one man cottage industry, I absolutely applaud that, and the very best of luck to him.

Edited February 23, 2010 by silddx

[supabock]

Well ok, ive been rumbled on this one and it was the latest, and yes, what a beaut, but i have to say as long ago as when the angel bass was about and the prices were still appropriate then, i had the same ease of playing and all of the stuff i mentioned before....Incredible....
I have to say, i didnt play it very well though


[quote name='EBS_freak' post='755369' date='Feb 23 2010, 07:43 PM']Bernie's latest by any chance? Heard that you played it...[/quote]

[7string]

[quote name='Clarky' post='755303' date='Feb 23 2010, 06:43 PM']Erm, I commuted to work in London on a Harley for years (a Sportster to begin with, later a Fat Boy). Very reliable, massive torque, low seats (so easy to clamber on in a business suit), looked wicked (the Harley, not the suit).[/quote]

I used to do that as well. Funny how car drivers will move out of the way for a Harley but won't budge for a Hornet.

[xilddx]

[quote name='7string' post='755534' date='Feb 23 2010, 09:30 PM']I used to do that as well. Funny how car drivers will move out of the way for a Harley but won't budge for a Hornet.[/quote]
I used to courier in Central London on a Hornet. Cars couldn't catch me, but I did get cut up all the time, regardless of the Remus Grand Prix which you could hear about twelve miles away.

[Marvin]

[attachment=43416:images_1.jpeg]

[attachment=43417:images.jpeg]


Which one?

[xilddx]

The new Hornets aren't nice looking, I had a Mk1

[Linus27]

[quote name='Wolverinebass' post='752194' date='Feb 20 2010, 08:43 PM']A Corvette is a very nice bass though I've never got on with Warwicks at all due to the neck profile. A bit too chunky for me.[/quote]

I think you need to go and try a new Corvette. They have the thinest neck I have ever played. I thought my ESP Jazz was thin but my new Warwick is uber thin. Granted, the old Warwicks used to be chunky.

[BigRedX]

Well I was hoping to read the BGM review before posting my comments, but there's no copies of the new issue in the shops here in Nottingham yet, and I feel the need to comment before this thread dies a death, I'll have to keep what I say general rather than specific, although that's probably a good thing.

Before I go any further I need to "nail my colours to the mast"...



I'm a fan of Simon Farmer's (Gus) work and have been since I saw photos of his original prototypes in the musical instrument press in the mid 80s.
I've also put my money where my mouth is and bought a G1 Guitar as well as the three basses in the photo above.

So how can you justify spending £5350 on a new bass?

Well from my personal perspective I don't need to. If I want it and I can afford it, I'll buy it. End of story.

I wouldn't consider myself particularly well off, my yearly income is (and always has been) below the national average, but music is what I am interested in and therefore I've made several lifestyle choices that allow me to be able to buy some nice instruments and equipment in order to be able to pursue my passion for making music. I haven't yet spent that much money on a bass, but I have in the past bought a mixing desk that cost almost that much (and in real terms was probably considerably more), which has depreciated more than any instrument ever could, and one day will cease to function, be unrepairable and therefore only good for the skip.

Would I spend £5350 on that particular bass? No. But I can see myself getting another Gus at sometime in the future (probably a 5-string fretless) which would most likely cost around that kind of figure.

Gus, or any other custom built bass with an unconventional design, doesn't sell to people who simply want a bass. They sell the those of us who want that particular bass. Let's face it, once you get to the £1500+ mark, you're going to get a great playing and sounding instrument (unless you and your luthier have very different ideas about that in which case you've picked the wrong luthier). Above that what you're paying for are maybe some extra custom features and that particular luthier's vision of how an instrument should look, sound and feel. That's why there's hundreds of custom luthiers out there each producing their own take on what a bass should be. For some people like me that's important. Other's simply won't get it and therefore don't need it.

Too answer the OP, the Gus almost definitely isn't £4000 better than his Warwick. It doesn't need to be as the basses aren't in competition. The person who wants a Warwick buys a Warwick. If you want a Gus - or any other unconventional design bass - (you save up some more and) you buy a Gus. Personally, once you get beyond the cheap Fender copy market, I don't believe that any bass is a substitute for another. They're all different and fulfil different needs. There was a comment, as a minus, in last month's BGM in the Digwall Combustion review that "Looks won't appeal to everyone". You could say that about any bass. I feel that way about some designs that are considered "classics" but I wouldn't want have one.

If you've found your personal bass heaven cheaper, that's great. In a way I'm envious. It would be great to be able to achieve musical and artistic satisfaction for less money, but I can't and therefore I have to (and do) live with it.

I'm thankful that there are luthiers out there like Simon Farmer, Jens Ritter, Michael Spalt, Heiko Hoepfinger, Ulrich Teuffel and Claudio Pagelli, to name but a few who want to push the boundaries of boundaries of guitar and bass design. It's unfortunate that because of the less than mainstream nature of their work that prices are beyond what is easily affordable by all those who share their vision of instrument development. On the other hand I'm glad that we're not all still playing instruments that seemed to have ended development in 1960.

[xilddx]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='756267' date='Feb 24 2010, 05:23 PM']Well I was hoping to read the BGM review before posting my comments, but there's no copies of the new issue in the shops here in Nottingham yet, and I feel the need to comment before this thread dies a death, I'll have to keep what I say general rather than specific, although that's probably a good thing.

Before I go any further I need to "nail my colours to the mast"...



I'm a fan of Simon Farmer's (Gus) work and have been since I saw photos of his original prototypes in the musical instrument press in the mid 80s.
I've also put my money where my mouth is and bought a G1 Guitar as well as the three basses in the photo above.

So how can you justify spending £5350 on a new bass?

Well from my personal perspective I don't need to. If I want it and I can afford it, I'll buy it. End of story.

I wouldn't consider myself particularly well off, my yearly income is (and always has been) below the national average, but music is what I am interested in and therefore I've made several lifestyle choices that allow me to be able to buy some nice instruments and equipment in order to be able to pursue my passion for making music. I haven't yet spent that much money on a bass, but I have in the past bought a mixing desk that cost almost that much (and in real terms was probably considerably more), which has depreciated more than any instrument ever could, and one day will cease to function, be unrepairable and therefore only good for the skip.

Would I spend £5350 on that particular bass? No. But I can see myself getting another Gus at sometime in the future (probably a 5-string fretless) which would most likely cost around that kind of figure.

Gus, or any other custom built bass with an unconventional design, doesn't sell to people who simply want a bass. They sell the those of us who want that particular bass. Let's face it, once you get to the £1500+ mark, you're going to get a great playing and sounding instrument (unless you and your luthier have very different ideas about that in which case you've picked the wrong luthier). Above that what you're paying for are maybe some extra custom features and that particular luthier's vision of how an instrument should look, sound and feel. That's why there's hundreds of custom luthiers out there each producing their own take on what a bass should be. For some people like me that's important. Other's simply won't get it and therefore don't need it.

Too answer the OP, the Gus almost definitely isn't £4000 better than his Warwick. It doesn't need to be as the basses aren't in competition. The person who wants a Warwick buys a Warwick. If you want a Gus - or any other unconventional design bass - (you save up some more and) you buy a Gus. Personally, once you get beyond the cheap Fender copy market, I don't believe that any bass is a substitute for another. They're all different and fulfil different needs. There was a comment, as a minus, in last month's BGM in the Digwall Combustion review that "Looks won't appeal to everyone". You could say that about any bass. I feel that way about some designs that are considered "classics" but I wouldn't want have one.

If you've found your personal bass heaven cheaper, that's great. In a way I'm envious. It would be great to be able to achieve musical and artistic satisfaction for less money, but I can't and therefore I have to (and do) live with it.

I'm thankful that there are luthiers out there like Simon Farmer, Jens Ritter, Michael Spalt, Heiko Hoepfinger, Ulrich Teuffel and Claudio Pagelli, to name but a few who want to push the boundaries of boundaries of guitar and bass design. It's unfortunate that because of the less than mainstream nature of their work that prices are beyond what is easily affordable by all those who share their vision of instrument development. On the other hand I'm glad that we're not all still playing instruments that seemed to have ended development in 1960.[/quote]
That's a superb post BRX. Thank you!

EDIT, I would certainly spend good money on a Spalt, was thinking of doing so before I tried the Wick. I agree with"I'm glad that we're not all still playing instruments that seemed to have ended development in 1960".

Edited February 24, 2010 by silddx

[Rich]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='756267' date='Feb 24 2010, 05:23 PM'][/quote]
Ooh look! Stealth saveloys!

Cracking set of basses you have there.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Johnston' post='756376' date='Feb 24 2010, 07:21 PM']A few quick questions if I may.

Are the horns metal or just chrome look?[/quote]
They are chromed aluminium, I doubt there is anything significant tonally, but not sure if that was the intent.

[Spoombung]

They really are very special looking instruments - especially that red one. I'd like to try one some day. As for the money, well, a lot of people here must regularly spend £5000 + on cars and computers every few years or so - items that inevitably retain almost zero value a few, short years later. Those Gus basses on the other hand look immortal - like some kind of pervy instruments of destiny or something. If I really wanted one I'd save up till I was ready to do glorious battle with it - jabbing those silver horns into the enemy (the Vintage Fender bores, that is).

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Rich' post='756306' date='Feb 24 2010, 06:12 PM']Cracking set of basses you have there.[/quote]
Thanks!

[quote name='Johnston' post='756376' date='Feb 24 2010, 07:21 PM']A few quick questions if I may.

I think I have seen 1 gus before and that was many moons ago when I had a subscription to bassist mag. I have never seen BGM in the shops so I don't think I will ever get to read the article in question.

Are the horns metal or just chrome look?

If they are metal do they serve any particular purpose tone wise or functionality?

What is the bridge like? it looks like quite a different style than the norm. Can anyone actually describe it?[/quote]

For more information on the metal horns it's best to let Simon Farmer speak for himself:
[quote]What's the tube made of and why is it there?
The tube elements on G1 and G3 instruments are made of chrome plated aluminium and are a part of the instruments' unique history, helping to make Gus guitars distinctive. My first prototype guitars were made from a steel tube framework (with no solid body). As I developed the designs and ideas the tube stayed, becoming a Gus trademark. They are also functional too, providing strap support and bracing against the body. Contrary to many peoples' ideas, they don't contribute to the sound![/quote]

The bridge is a unique design and made by Simon himself. In fact every part of a Gus guitar or bass except for the strap lock and machine heads is either made by Simon or made exclusively for him. Hopefully these photos will help explain it:


It's an interesting design which has no free vibrating string length past the 'witness point' of the bridge. Once the string has passed over the saddle it is in contact with the material of the bridge all the way to the ball-end. Below the visible part of the bridge is a massive metal block that the stings pass through. The string height is adjusted by an allen screw on the underside off the assembly which is reached by removing the panel on the back off the bass:


Intonation is also adjusted from this point, by undoing a bolt for each bridge unit (all the relevant tools are supplied with the bass) and manually moving it forwards or backwards as required. It's not the most user friendly of methods as it requires you to slacken off the string first, but I've come across far worse.

Edited February 25, 2010 by BigRedX

[chris_b]

[quote name='Johnston' post='756376' date='Feb 24 2010, 07:21 PM']....I think I have seen 1 gus before and that was many moons ago when I had a subscription to bassist mag. I have never seen BGM in the shops so I don't think I will ever get to read the article in question....[/quote]
Have a look here [url="http://www.gusguitars.com/"]http://www.gusguitars.com/[/url]

[BigRedX]

[quote name='silddx' post='756301' date='Feb 24 2010, 06:09 PM']I would certainly spend good money on a Spalt, was thinking of doing so before I tried the Wick.[/quote]
A Spalt Hybrid is also on my must try/buy list.

I once saw a 'review' of a Spalt Hybrid on Ed Roman's site where he really slagged it off and ended by suggesting an alternative that he considered a far better musical instrument. I can't remember exactly what he thought was a viable alternative, but I do recalled being extremely underwhelmed by the choice, proving that Mr Roman like so many people who claim to dislike unconventional instruments had completely missed the point. The alternative suggested may well have been a superior on a playability/tone level, but visually it was so bland that no-one considering a Spalt Hybrid would for a moment have taken it as an alternative.

BTW Did you know that Michael Spalt has recently relocated to Austria, and is rumoured to be working with Andreas Pichler of Andreas Shark Bass fame?

[xilddx]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='757464' date='Feb 25 2010, 07:22 PM']A Spalt Hybrid is also on my must try/buy list.

I once saw a 'review' of a Spalt Hybrid on Ed Roman's site where he really slagged it off and ended by suggesting an alternative that he considered a far better musical instrument. I can't remember exactly what he thought was a viable alternative, but I do recalled being extremely underwhelmed by the choice, proving that Mr Roman like so many people who claim to dislike unconventional instruments had completely missed the point. The alternative suggested may well have been a superior on a playability/tone level, but visually it was so bland that no-one considering a Spalt Hybrid would for a moment have taken it as an alternative.

BTW Did you know that Michael Spalt has recently relocated to Austria, and is rumoured to be working with Andreas Pichler of Andreas Shark Bass fame?[/quote]

Ed Roman is a bit of a twat by all accounts, and he's said the same things about other left field instruments, that he can build a much better one for you at a much better spec and in the color [sic] you really want, rubbish like that.

I did NOT know that about Michael Spalt, that should be quite exciting, I remember checking out Sharks (unless I'm mistaken) even before the Spalts. It was a Spalt hybrid I was after actually, think I first came across them when I read your W&W thread when I just joined BC.

BTW, my OP was meant to be a bit provocative. I really admire Simon Farmer for what he's doing. As far as spending much money is concerned, I have no issue with that at all. I'll be eating at the Fat Duck in a couple of months, I would be able to buy a decent MIJ Fender for the price of an evening's eating and drinking. However, the pleasure and lifetime's memories is worth it for me.

Cheers.

[BigRedX]

Mr Roman did the same about the Andreas Shark guitars. As Far as I can tell he either bullied Andreas into making the guitar how he wanted it or took and existing Andreas guitar and modified it to suit what he wanted to promote. This appeared to mainly consist of removing the aluminium fingerboard and replace it with a conventional wood one and therefore completely missing the point of the design of the instrument in the first place!

I had guessed that your original post had been designed to be somewhat provocative as it did seem OoC for you! However it was in the most part a good natured debate and hopefully opened one or two people's eyes to the possibilities of a Gus bass, even if they can't afford it right now. When I first saw the Gus prototypes I was at the time unemployed and living in place that someone once ask me if it was a squat! I was impressed enough by what I saw and read about what Simon was creating to know that if I ever had the opportunity, I would be buying one of his creations.

TBH I was somewhat shocked by how much the price had risen since I bought my G1 Guitar and the matt-black G3 Bass (the other two basses were ex-demo and one of only 2 I've ever seen second hand and so don't really count price-wise). I knew that prices had increased but I hadn't expected them to double in the time since I bought mine. However there's an interview with Simon Farmer where he says that it takes him 150 hours to build a standard G1 Guitar and if you want to pay yourself a realistic self-employed hourly wage that covers a substantial part of the asking price.

[4000]

[quote name='silddx' post='757476' date='Feb 25 2010, 07:33 PM']Ed Roman is a bit of a twat by all accounts[/quote]

I've met Ed. Imagine Gimli the Dwarf but twice the size and with [i]attitude[/i]. I wouldn't be in a hurry to meet him again.

[Spoombung]

Sorry to ressurect this thread about the Gus guitar but I just got a copy of Bassplayer and read the article (it arrives about a month late in london) and the devil can be in the detail.

I must say that what struck me as most surprising was the expense of the additional features; the extra pickup (£100), the maple fingerboard and heastock veneer(£250), the scratchplate and control cavity covers(£350) and carbon fibre inlays(£150) all coming to an [i]additional[/i] [b]£850! [/b] Seems [i]incredibly[/i] expensive on top of the £4500!

Yes, I can understand paying extra for fairy lights... but I would have thought for that price you certainly should [i]not[/i] pay extra for a maple fingerboard and headstock veneer, (for instance) ....I mean, that [i]really[/i] should be included in the price - you'd expect that as it's hardly an 'addition' by luthier standards. In fact, for £4500 perhaps it should have all been included, IMO. Bizarre.

[The Burpster]

[quote name='Spoombung' post='761040' date='Mar 1 2010, 06:43 PM']Sorry to ressurect this thread about the Gus guitar but I just got a copy of Bassplayer and read the article (it arrives about a month late in london) and the devil can be in the detail.

I must say that what struck me as most surprising was the expense of the additional features; the extra pickup (£100), the maple fingerboard and heastock veneer(£250), the scratchplate and control cavity covers(£350) and carbon fibre inlays(£150) all coming to an [i]additional[/i] [b]£850! [/b] Seems [i]incredibly[/i] expensive on top of the £4500!

Yes, I can understand paying extra for fairy lights... but I would have thought for that price you certainly should [i]not[/i] pay extra for a maple fingerboard and headstock veneer, (for instance) ....I mean, that [i]really[/i] should be included in the price - you'd expect that as it's hardly an 'addition' by luthier standards. In fact, for £4500 perhaps it should have all been included, IMO. Bizarre.[/quote]

I agree to some extent but then its a bit like buying a Bentley or Rolls Royce........

If you have to ask how much it is - you cant afford it....!

[Spoombung]

[quote name='The Burpster' post='761042' date='Mar 1 2010, 06:46 PM']I agree to some extent but then its a bit like buying a Bentley or Rolls Royce........

If you have to ask how much it is - you cant afford it....![/quote]

er, right.

[xilddx]

[quote name='The Burpster' post='761042' date='Mar 1 2010, 06:46 PM']I agree to some extent but then its a bit like buying a Bentley or Rolls Royce........

If you have to ask how much it is - you cant afford it....![/quote]
I'm sorry mate, but that's crap. Most of the people with that sort of cash know exactly where it's going and what it's doing and will want intimate details of their expenditure. Why do you think they have that sort of money?

It's usually poor people who spend unwisely.

Anyway, it says quite clearly in the review what it costs. Try phoning Simon farmer and see if he says [i]"If you have to ask how much it is - you cant afford it....!"[/i]

I can't imagine you approaching PRS and saying I want a nine string single cut with burlesque inlays made of rarest unicorn shell and no bum notes, and not asking what it might cost.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='silddx' post='761391' date='Mar 2 2010, 12:20 AM']...with burlesque inlays...[/quote]

You're all over this burlesque thing at the moment, aren't you. Mind you, it [i]would[/i] make a change from the old 'flying bird' inlays.

And, without wishing to stoke one particular aspect of this debate, you're right about the rich, if my kazillionaire neighbour is anything to go by.

Every time his gardener comes round, I can hear old Moneybags out the back, bellowing: " I want it [i]there[/i]. And that one over [i]there[/i]. [i]How much[/i]? I'm not paying that for some trees. Take 'em back. No, Tilly, darling, you can't have sweets, you've spent all your pocket money till next week. [i]How much[/i]?!? For one bloody bush?"

Edited March 2, 2010 by skankdelvar

[xilddx]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='761396' date='Mar 2 2010, 12:29 AM']You're all over this burlesque thing at the moment, aren't you. Mind you, it [i]would[/i] make a change from the old 'flying bird' inlays.[/quote]
Or those daft dragons.

Also puts a new spin on "Private Stock"