Gallien Krueger

[ThomBassmonkey]

Anyone used these? Specifically the 700RB-II and 210RBH.

Got one a couple of weeks ago and it's causing me grief. They're just not loud enough. They can handle band practice but they're hinting at farting and not as clear as they are below practice volumes.

I'm surprised I can't crank it more to be honest, it's a 320w (into 8ohms) head and a 400w cab so I'd have thought that I could really crank the amp before it distorts but I'm not even halfway up on the volume (on average, input volume's up, boost is down and woofer volume is in the middle somewhere). I've talked to the place where I bought it from and they say that GK stuff is very reliable so it shouldn't be a fault, but it doesn't sound right either so the cab's going to go back and be looked at (I've used the head with a 2x15 cab and it's seemed ok).

So the question is is it likely to be a fault with the head (I don't know if I can rule it out because the 2x15 I ran it through would surely be louder anyway so the head turned up as much)/cab?

If it's not a fault, is it likely to be a problem with the head being too low wattage (for some reason, I don't see many 700RBs around, most people seem to go for the 1001RB) or, despite the wattage, is the cab just not able to push out enough volume as a 2x10? So would I be better off getting a 1001RB or a 4x10 (or both, though I wouldn't be able to afford a 410RBH so I'd have to get a neo or move away from GK for that).

The more people I speak to, the more confused I'm getting about this (so maybe starting the thread might not help, I'm prepared to take that chance ). I've only ever used combos before so I really don't know what the problem could be, but it's really not working out for me. I love the tone though (when it's how I like it) so would really like to get to the bottom of it.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[umcoo]

The 700rb is 225w into 8 ohms. I bet with the 2x15 you were using a 4 ohm cab and obviosuly the bigger speaker area made it louder. 2X10's are cool for practice and stuff, but can struggle when in a band in my experience.

Maybe try an 8 ohm extension cab underneath...you will then be running at 4 ohms, getting the full power from the GK, and have a bigger speaker area.

[umcoo]

My apologies...you're right about 320 watts. More speakers should do the trick!

[ThomBassmonkey]

Problem with that is that I only drive a Fiesta that has to deal with 2 basses and a 4u rack already before the cab, If I have to fit anything else in, it'd already be a challenge, I could possibly fit in a bigger cab (with the seats folded down) but I really can't fit in 2 cabs. Not to mention that I can't afford another cab.

I've thought about sending the cab back (it's still within it's 7 days return limit) and getting a Neo 212 which can handle a higher wattage and has a bigger surface area, but there's no way I can try it out before hand so I could just have the same problem again and if part of the problem is the amp can't send enough power for a single cab, I'm not sure running a cab with a higher wattage without upgrading the head would help anyway.

Edit: and I'd rather run an 8 ohm cab than a 4 ohm so that in future I have the flexibility of borrowing/renting another cab if needed for bigger gigs.

Edited February 20, 2010 by ThomBassmonkey

[Delberthot]

If you can sell your cab and pick up a Schroeder on the forum then you'll be set.

I used a 700RB II and a 4ohm Schroeder 1212L and it was loud enough for any gig I did regardless of size. The amp is plenty loud so I would say to change the cab and keep the amp if you like the GK sound.

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='Delberthot' post='752290' date='Feb 20 2010, 10:26 PM']If you can sell your cab and pick up a Schroeder on the forum then you'll be set.

I used a 700RB II and a 4ohm Schroeder 1212L and it was loud enough for any gig I did regardless of size. The amp is plenty loud so I would say to change the cab and keep the amp if you like the GK sound.[/quote]

Well I can still return the cab (which I intend to do whatever the outcome of this as the combination's definitely not working) so I'll be doing that. If I did upgrade the amp, it'd definitely be to a 1001RB, I don't intend to move away from GK.

Like I said though, I don't really want a 4ohm cab if I can avoid it, how does the 8ohm version measure up? To be honest, I think I'll actually just be going around shops with my head though rather than buying another cab blind, all this has come at a bad time and I don't want to mess about trialling loads of combinations of amps and cabs. Are there any Eden cabs worth looking at? There's a dealer not far from here that has a fair few in stock.

[umcoo]

Me and Tayste might plug these all the time, but a Matamp 2x12 would do the trick. £350, can be 8 or 4 ohms, any colour you want, can have neo drivers if weight is a problem, and mine fits in the back of my fiesta with a valve amp and a jazz bass with the seats folded down. Not to mentiuon, they sound the mutts nuts.

Just a thought....

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='umcoo' post='752301' date='Feb 20 2010, 10:42 PM']Me and Tayste might plug these all the time, but a Matamp 2x12 would do the trick. £350, can be 8 or 4 ohms, any colour you want, can have neo drivers if weight is a problem, and mine fits in the back of my fiesta with a valve amp and a jazz bass with the seats folded down. Not to mentiuon, they sound the mutts nuts.

Just a thought....[/quote]
Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think there's any dealers local to me and after all the messing about I've done with this, I'd rather go and try something out, then if I like it, buy it. Saves me ordering something else that I potentially won't get on with.

Edited February 20, 2010 by ThomBassmonkey

[MythSte]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='752296' date='Feb 20 2010, 10:35 PM']Well I can still return the cab (which I intend to do whatever the outcome of this as the combination's definitely not working) so I'll be doing that. If I did upgrade the amp, it'd definitely be to a 1001RB, I don't intend to move away from GK.

Like I said though, I don't really want a 4ohm cab if I can avoid it, how does the 8ohm version measure up? To be honest, I think I'll actually just be going around shops with my head though rather than buying another cab blind, all this has come at a bad time and I don't want to mess about trialling loads of combinations of amps and cabs. Are there any Eden cabs worth looking at? There's a dealer not far from here that has a fair few in stock.[/quote]

If you cant fit any more cabs in your car then why not shoot for 4ohms?

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='MythSte' post='752410' date='Feb 21 2010, 12:30 AM']If you cant fit any more cabs in your car then why not shoot for 4ohms?[/quote]

Because for our bigger gigs/tours we can take a van.

I am looking at 4 ohm cabs too, not completely writing them off. I'd just rather have 8ohm ones for flexibility.

I have a couple of cabs in mind but for that's for another day when I can go play with them.


I think I'm just a bit spooked because I can't tell whether it's the head distorting or the cab (purely because of my inexperience). If I felt confident that it was the cab, I'd upgrade that and there'd be no bother. Because I'm concerned it's the head, it's making me wonder if that's enough. Though as I've said, the head was only up halfway so logic would suggest it was just the cab. I just don't get how a cab that's rated at 400w can't handle a 320w amp, that doesn't seem to make sense..

Combos are a world away from this. Is it loud enough? No? Buy a bigger one.

[Delberthot]

I've used GK amps in one form or another for most of my bass playing life, almost 23 years and counting, and I've never managed to make one distort yet and I am bloody loud

[MythSte]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='752434' date='Feb 21 2010, 01:09 AM']Because for our bigger gigs/tours we can take a van.

I am looking at 4 ohm cabs too, not completely writing them off. I'd just rather have 8ohm ones for flexibility.

I have a couple of cabs in mind but for that's for another day when I can go play with them.


I think I'm just a bit spooked because I can't tell whether it's the head distorting or the cab (purely because of my inexperience). If I felt confident that it was the cab, I'd upgrade that and there'd be no bother. Because I'm concerned it's the head, it's making me wonder if that's enough. Though as I've said, the head was only up halfway so logic would suggest it was just the cab. I just don't get how a cab that's rated at 400w can't handle a 320w amp, that doesn't seem to make sense..

Combos are a world away from this. Is it loud enough? No? Buy a bigger one. [/quote]

Hmm! Definately an interesting one. I suppose its in your interest to get it swapped and at least try and see if thats the problem!

Keep us posted!

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='MythSte' post='753752' date='Feb 22 2010, 01:08 PM']Keep us posted![/quote]

I've just rung Rattle and Drum in Derby (who have a 2nd hand 700RB-II in) so gonna take my gear over there and A/B them. Also gonna try out some Eden cabs as I really can't afford a GK 410 and don't fancy buying blind again anyway.

If I copy the settings across from my head when it's breaking up (if they let me turn it to practice volumes in the shop. ) and the other head isn't breaking up, I'll know it's a problem with the head. If it does, it'll just be the speakers and I'll just have a look at their cabs (I doubt I'll be able to push the volume so much with a 410, we'll see though. Depends how loud it seems in the shop).

Edited February 22, 2010 by ThomBassmonkey

[ThomBassmonkey]

Ok, got back from R&D and rang GAK.

From what I heard there (with the help of the bass guy, who's name I've forgotten but was very helpful!) is that with the amp (I used their 700RB-II to make sure it wasn't just my head being faulty) plugged into a different cab it sounded louder. And with a different amp plugged into the 210RBH, it sounded louder. I don't know why it would be quieter with that amp specifically plugged into that cab when they're designed to work together. The other cabs didn't have as much punch (which is a shame) but the Eden D410 still sounded great.

So I've rang GAK and asked if they can swap the head for a 1001RB-II and refund me the difference on my cab. They say that because I've had the head almost 3 weeks, it's unlikely that they'll be able to do that, but he's asking someone higher up if it's possible.

So outcome depends on what GAK's response is (I'll hopefully get a call later today) but if they don't swap the head, at least I know that with another cab I should be alright with the same head (though it's not as ideal as having a more powerful head).

It all just seems odd as GKs are supposed to be loud amps, I don't understand why it would be quieter than other heads and I especially don't understand why a GK head and cab would be quieter than any of the other combinations I tried out.

Edited February 22, 2010 by ThomBassmonkey

[bigjohn]

I've got a 1212L you can try out with your head if you want?

I'd be quite interested to see what a RB sounds like through one. I was thinking quite seriously about getting one before I bought my power amp. The Schroeder takes 600W from that without any trouble.

I'm over in Ruddington.

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='bigjohn' post='754002' date='Feb 22 2010, 04:29 PM']I've got a 1212L you can try out with your head if you want?

I'd be quite interested to see what a RB sounds like through one. I was thinking quite seriously about getting one before I bought my power amp. The Schroeder takes 600W from that without any trouble.

I'm over in Ruddington.[/quote]

That'd be cool mate. I'll drop you a PM later in the week about it. Been curious about 2x12s anyway, just never seen any around to have a play with.

[ThomBassmonkey]

Perhaps predictably GAK didn't ring me back and maybe less predictably, their claim on their website that their phonelines are open 9am-10pm isn't true either.

I guess I should've just taken my money and ran when they made such a mess of my initial order, dunno what possessed me to give them a 2nd chance and get my cab from them too.

[ThomBassmonkey]

Just rang GAK (been in the studio since Tuesday so not had a chance between Monday and now) and they'll take swap the 700RB-II for the 1001RB-II.

They're gonna collect it on Monday and check that it's undamaged before it's definite but it's been in the rack since I got it, so I'm not too worried. Good outcome.

I'll be starting a thread on cabs later.

John, I'll have to get in contact next week if you're still up for trying out RB/1212L since I'll be sending the head back so don't know how long I'll be without.

[ThomBassmonkey]

Just as a final update to this, I tried to contact GAK again yesterday and couldn't get through so I've sent them an email telling them I'm not going to bother returning the amp or cab.

I'd rather just have to pay out the extra cash for another cab than deal with them again. I've never had so much hassle over something so simple. It's a sad state when I'd rather waste money than get a refund from them, but I honestly feel that's the easiest and lowest stress option, even though I'm on a very low income.

[MythSte]

Sorry to hear about that man!

On the plus side, I used a 1001RBII and a Schroeder 1212 For a long time with great results!

[Mr. Foxen]

I think this is a pretty good demo of why the power ratings of a cab are a bit irrelevant to the practice of using it. The things you want to look for is sensitivity, which is the more volume with the same amp bit (usually achieved by more speaker area). The farting out bit is determined by the mechanics of the speaker and a bit more difficult to find out without some serious nerding (so if you wanna know, ask a serious nerd), the watts rating is the amount it can take before melting, the point where it farts is unrelated to that.

There are a bunch of threads on that sort of stuff, if you search 'xmax' and 'thermal power handling' you'll find AlexClaber and BFM waxing geeky about it.

[MythSte]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='759853' date='Feb 28 2010, 03:59 PM']I think this is a pretty good demo of why the power ratings of a cab are a bit irrelevant to the practice of using it. The things you want to look for is sensitivity, which is the more volume with the same amp bit (usually achieved by more speaker area). The farting out bit is determined by the mechanics of the speaker and a bit more difficult to find out without some serious nerding (so if you wanna know, ask a serious nerd), the watts rating is the amount it can take before melting, the point where it farts is unrelated to that.

There are a bunch of threads on that sort of stuff, if you search 'xmax' and 'thermal power handling' you'll find AlexClaber and BFM waxing geeky about it.[/quote]

Yes and no! From what i remember of Alex' and Bills' Geek ramblings sensitivity should be useful, but it isn't as everyone seems to measure it slightly differently? Anyway, Que a million and one people telling you to use your ears!

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='MythSte' post='759865' date='Feb 28 2010, 04:12 PM']Yes and no! From what i remember of Alex' and Bills' Geek ramblings sensitivity should be useful, but it isn't as everyone seems to measure it slightly differently? Anyway, Que a million and one people telling you to use your ears! [/quote]

Nominal sensitivity is probably a better word for it, since like impedance, it varies with frequency. Fact is it is sensitivity and excursion limited power handling (determined by xmax)that you want in order to avoid finding you have a quiet cab that farts out easily. The fact the specs published might be misleading is secondary, because firstly you need to look for them, and secondly the manufacturer needs to publish them, and they often don't.

Your ear is the measure of those properties, you hear it being quiet; lacking sensitivity, and you hear is breaking up; lacking excursion limited power handling.