People who don't 'get' the vintage market

[xilddx]

[quote name='OldGit' post='753625' date='Feb 22 2010, 11:43 AM']Felling it's better is a large part of the appeal.

As with many thing we like to join in with a prevailing belief (well lots do) so if the general belief is that a mojo'd 62 P bass in Jamerson sunburst with all orginal bits is considered a cool and valuable piece by enough people many more will agree to be part of the pack.[/quote]
You mean most vintage Fender buyers are sheep-like?

[xilddx]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='753622' date='Feb 22 2010, 11:37 AM']Cool... Thanks for sharing![/quote]
Not sure if you are having a little dig at me for some reason. If you are, please stop it, it tickles

[Musicman20]

I think my opinion is obvious. I would snap that instrument up in the for sales if I could.

Refin? Hmm, as long as the price reflects that, then fair enough. I would be particular about correct case, case candy if possible. Its not that hard to keep all these things together if you are careful.

IMO, Fender instruments look 'cool' anyway. Its just like I think Lambretta's/Vespa's also look cool. I definitely consider myself a person that enjoys 'classic' designs.

Maybe its because they have been around for so long that many of us class a good Fender as the Holy Grail! I notice so many people on this forum going back to a Fender P, just because no other instrument sounds like a P. They might get VERY close, but its not that sound im afraid. Ive tried it, and I came right back.

[OldGit]

[quote name='silddx' post='753637' date='Feb 22 2010, 11:57 AM']You mean most vintage Fender buyers are sheep-like?[/quote]

No that would be joining the flock.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='silddx' post='753638' date='Feb 22 2010, 11:58 AM']Not sure if you are having a little dig at me for some reason. If you are, please stop it, it tickles [/quote]
Nah.. just no point in disagreeing.

If you like tuna sandwiches, why don't we argue about wether they're nice or not instead?

[Conan]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='753658' date='Feb 22 2010, 12:08 PM']If you like tuna sandwiches, why don't we argue about wether they're nice or not instead?[/quote]

Are we talking about sandwiches containing tuna, or sandwiches that tuna themselves take on picnics?

[xilddx]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='753658' date='Feb 22 2010, 12:08 PM']Nah.. just no point in disagreeing.

If you like tuna sandwiches, why don't we argue about wether they're nice or not instead?[/quote]
But that's the point, I am not arguing. I am questioning.

What is "nice"? There are all sorts of reasons why you might like or dislike a tuna sandwich. Everything from the quality of the bread, salted or unsalted butter, home made mayo, sweetcorn or not to sweetcorn. Then you have things like mouth-feel, moisture content, presence of umami stimulators, the sustainability and species of the tuna, etc.

So I'm not arguing, I'm interested in the psychosocial motivation and behaviour of people buying and selling vintage Fenders. Well I am today anyway.

Edited February 22, 2010 by silddx

[thunderbird13]

Stop this tuna madness - surely everyone must agree that tuna tastes like catfood

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='silddx' post='753683' date='Feb 22 2010, 12:24 PM']But that's the point, I am not arguing. I am questioning.

What is "nice"? There are all sorts of reasons why you might like or dislike a tuna sandwich. Everything from the quality of the bread, salted or unsalted butter, home made mayo, sweetcorn or not to sweetcorn. Then you have things like mouth-feel, moisture content, presence of umami stimulators, the sustainability and species of the tuna, etc.

So I'm not arguing, I'm interested in the psychosocial motivation and behaviour of people buying and selling vintage Fenders. Well I am today anyway.[/quote]
Question away, but I can't explain.

Oh, by the way, the three vintage Fenders I have will probably be worth a ridiculous $hitload by the time I throw the towel in.

Crass, I know... but my daughter will thank me in years to come.

[xilddx]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='753691' date='Feb 22 2010, 12:28 PM']Question away, but I can't explain.

Oh, by the way, the three vintage Fenders I have will probably be worth a ridiculous $hitload by the time I throw the towel in.

Crass, I know... but my daughter will thank me in years to come.[/quote]
Not crass at all. A very worthy explaination of bass purchases to the wife

[Stan_da_man]

Vintage Fenders do nothing for me. I'm going to make a bold statement and say that modern Fenders can do everything a vintage Fender can.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Stan_da_man' post='753696' date='Feb 22 2010, 12:33 PM']Vintage Fenders do nothing for me. I'm going to make a bold statement and say that modern Fenders can do everything a vintage Fender can.[/quote]
And do it better.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Stan_da_man' post='753696' date='Feb 22 2010, 12:33 PM']Vintage Fenders do nothing for me. I'm going to make a bold statement and say that modern Fenders can do everything a vintage Fender can.[/quote]
Cosmetics aside, of course they can - no arguments from me. But I'm not sure many people would suggest they can't..?

[Stan_da_man]

So why pay top dollar for something that is not as good as the modern equivalent?

I bet people with vintage Fenders are getting sick to death of being asked what bass they play:

"What bass is that then?"
"Well its a 1964 Jazz bass"
"Does that make it better then if its older?"

Can't really see the point.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Stan_da_man' post='753715' date='Feb 22 2010, 12:43 PM']So why pay top dollar for something that is not as good as the modern equivalent?[/quote]
Read the thread, man.

*rewinds tape*

[quote]- Inexplicable desire to own a piece of heritage.
- Investment.
- They look cool.[/quote]

You dan't have to agree with the specifics, but that's the answer to your question.

And... speaking from experience, I don't agree with your 'not as good' point.

[OldGit]

[quote name='Stan_da_man' post='753696' date='Feb 22 2010, 12:33 PM']Vintage Fenders do nothing for me. I'm going to make a bold statement and say that modern Fenders can do everything a vintage Fender can.[/quote]

Except be worth a lot more in years to come....

[thepurpleblob]

Have you watched the Antiques Greed Show on a Sunday night? During the bits were you're not trying to work out if Fiona Bruce is fit or not there's all these bits of old pot that turn out to be work 25 Grand. Twenty-Five-Grand to who? It's still and old plate with chipped edges. I'd rather have a new one out of Ikea for a quid - it does the same job and it doesn't matter if I drop it.

Same thing with Basses.... vintage isn't any better 'really' but *anyone* can go and buy a 2010 Jazz Deluxe (or whatever) but if you have a 1962 in some obscure colour it's probably unique. Some people just like that and will pay whatever it takes.

[xilddx]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='753795' date='Feb 22 2010, 01:36 PM']Antiques [b]Greed [/b]Show on a Sunday night?[/quote]

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='silddx' post='753824' date='Feb 22 2010, 02:01 PM'] [/quote]

I was trying for irony.... and obviously failing miserably

[xilddx]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='753829' date='Feb 22 2010, 02:06 PM']I was trying for irony.... and obviously failing miserably [/quote]
I failed to see any irony too!

Cheers.

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='silddx' post='753834' date='Feb 22 2010, 02:08 PM']I failed to see any irony too!

Cheers.[/quote]

Ok, that's it, outside........

(you do know I meant the Antiques Road Show, yeh? Bastion of people desperate to find that their old junk is worth thousands... just checking!)

[Conan]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='753691' date='Feb 22 2010, 12:28 PM']...my daughter will thank me in years to come.[/quote]

Brilliant!! The perfect justification to invest in more gear!

Problem is, I'm not keen on vintage Fenders Incidentally, at what age does an "old" bass become a "vintage"? Would my Status, at 25 years old, be classed at "vintage"? Scarey...

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='silddx' post='753683' date='Feb 22 2010, 12:24 PM']I'm interested in the psychosocial motivation and behaviour of people buying and selling vintage Fenders. Well I am today anyway.[/quote]
I apologise in advance for the length of this post. The value is in inverse proportion to the volume.

The widespread, though not universal, belief in the inherent superiority of vintage guitars encompasses a number of separate though complementary assertions. Broadly, these are that they play, sound and look better than their modern counterparts. The descriptor of 'cool' is often applied to them. The important point is that these are qualities which are judged subjectively by the individual and can be neither proved or disproved. The only truth upon which we all might agree is that vintage instruments are, by some measure, older than contemporary instruments.

Yet the term 'vintage' is less descriptive of an instrument's age than an assertion that the instrument possesses certain desirable qualities absent from other instruments. These qualities are derived not only from the manufacturer who produced it but, through some osmotic process, the culture which pertained at the time of production. Who among us has not sniffed an old guitar and not instantly visualised some fuzzy yet emblematic image of a bygone period?

Many in modern society believe themselves to be faced with a contracting horizon and a flattening of distinctive local or national culture. Many see modern life as lacking a quality which may be embodied in certain historic practices or artefacts. These might include antiques, allotment gardening, classic cars, collectables, old musical genres. When people contrast these examples of 'the old ways' with modern life, they often attribute an 'authenticity' or truthfulness to them which stands in stark contrast to 'value-free' contemporary artefacts and culture.

This belief is, of course, nothing new. In the UK, shape was first given to the concept by Victorians such as William Morris and Cecil Sharp, who attributed an 'authenticity' to furniture, tools and folk song which they believed to be wholly absent from the age of 'The Machine'. Heidegger pronounced upon authenticity. Existentialism is all about authenticity in a personal sense. Japanese culture venerates authenticity.

And, of course, where there is desire there is money to be made. The heritage industry (National Trust, English Heritage, Wm Shakespeare Walking Tours of Stratford Upon Avon), Antiques fairs, retro clothing manufacturers, forgers, Fender Roadworn instruments; the examples are countless and ubiquitous. 'Authentic' sells.

The qualities attributed to vintage instruments may have a basis in fact. But the belief is supported by a far wider ranging desire for authenticity. In this respect, vintage basses are simply a tiny corner of a broader social phenomenon.

To me, the most interesting aspect is the inconsistency of application. As Bloodaxe rightly noted: If it's a Fender, it's 'mojo'. If it's any other manufacturer, it's just damage.

Edited February 22, 2010 by skankdelvar

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='thunderbird13' post='753684' date='Feb 22 2010, 12:24 PM']Stop this tuna madness - surely everyone must agree that tuna tastes like catfood[/quote]

you can tune a bass but you can't tuna fish.

[josh3184]

supply/demand.

End of really