EBMM Stingray 4 string weak G string question

[funkgod]

REG the G string pole pices
At first i tried to heat up the g string poles with a solder iron from the bottom even when warm they did not slip through the wax and coils
but the A and D ones did you do heve to give them a bit of a push ( dont over do it) mine went through quite easy ? tho i know my friends befor he got rid of it had a bit of a problem getting them to push through...here is a pic after done.....
no doubt the strings are much more even in volume now and i dont get drop out when walking over the G string.

[attachment=44213:IMG_1052.jpg]

mmmmmmm how do i get a photo on here ????

[mep]

[quote name='green' post='764530' date='Mar 4 2010, 10:00 PM']mep, let us know if it worked. and if it did, could you please post a closeup photo of your bridge after your modification ?[/quote]

Here are some photos with the G string more over the pole. The bits of plastic are not easy to see, which is what I intended.
One more tip is to roll off the bass eq a bit. If you can't increase the level of the G string much then at least try this. I also wonder if different strings make any difference, as old ones certainly do.

I'm going to have another go at pushing down the pole pieces as suggested by funkgod after reading a bit more about it. I guess I was to delicate at first and couldn't get them to move.

Won't have a chance to try it out at a practice or gig for a week ot two.

[attachment=44218:MM_Bridge_012.jpg]

[attachment=44220:MM_Bridge_015.jpg]

Edited March 5, 2010 by mep

[dave_bass5]

The last 3 posts have been very helpful. Plenty to go on, thanks.
I did push quite hard to move the A and D pole pieces but they wouldn't budge, i didn't want to break anything so i left them alone.

I noticed when i was having weak G problems with my DJ5 that it was the lows that seemed to be too strong, backing them off a bit, as suggested by mep is a good idea but not always ideal of course.

Im in two mind as to just leave the Sub as it is or get a new pup. I think i need ot get a few gigs with the Sub before i make any decisions though, i don't think its going to be too bad.

[green]

[quote name='funkgod' post='765538' date='Mar 5 2010, 08:47 PM']At first i tried to heat up the g string poles with a solder iron[/quote]


OH NO !!!
better don't do that again !

there are magnets inside your pickup.
ferromagnetic materials have a so called curie-temperature. if you heat them above that, they lose their magnetic properties.
for alnico magnets, this curie temperature is at about 860°C, but you shouldn't heat it above about 500°C or you will wreck it.

folks, whatever you do: never heat or smash your pickup with a hammer ! you will ruin it !

[mep]

[quote name='mep' post='765562' date='Mar 5 2010, 08:10 PM']Here are some photos with the G string more over the pole. The bits of plastic are not easy to see, which is what I intended.
One more tip is to roll off the bass eq a bit. If you can't increase the level of the G string much then at least try this. I also wonder if different strings make any difference, as old ones certainly do.

I'm going to have another go at pushing down the pole pieces as suggested by funkgod after reading a bit more about it. I guess I was to delicate at first and couldn't get them to move.

Won't have a chance to try it out at a practice or gig for a week ot two.[/quote]

Well, I managed to lower the 4 middle poles as funkgod recommended. I managed to do it with the pup in place! Now the poles are pretty much flush with the pup and I have adjusted the pup height so suit. I have a Trace head and the G string is showing a good input level and matches the A & D. The E is allways a bit louder. Combined with my string alignment and new strings it feels and sounds fantastic. I can't wait to gig my refreshed Ray.

Funkgod, add me to the list of satisfied bassists. Thanks a lot!!

[dave_bass5]

Gald it worked mep.
Im going to give it another try today. I did two gigs with my Sub this weekend and the G was so quiet my drummer asked me why i had changed what i was playing.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='green' post='765742' date='Mar 6 2010, 12:10 AM']folks, whatever you do: never heat or smash your pickup with a hammer ! you will ruin it ![/quote]

I didnt see this earlier and have just used a hammer to get my pole pieces down. It only took a few gentle taps and now they are all the same height and every thing is still working. I took the pup out and took the cover off first.

Not sure how much of a difference its going to make but its got to be at least a bit better.

[green]

i guess a few gentle taps are ok, but throwing your pickup against the wall or something like that will ruin it for sure.

but heating with an soldering iron really isn't a good idea...

[implo]

Very handy thread indeed! Considering this is a significant problem with 'Rays, might I suggest someone sticky's it?

I can also add a little something of worth. As well as the pup issue, there seems to be many who hanker after the classic MM sound and John East's pre-amps come up alot in that regard. I've spoken at length with him (and a very helpful chap he is too) and in the end he recommended shifting out the existing pre with his MMSR 4 Knob 3 Band over the 2 EQ. This is for two reasons:
1) To quote him, [i]When the mid boost/cut knob is in its centre click, then you just have the pre EB style 2 band alone, but the sweepable mid can be very useful for tuning some definition and punch.[/i]
2) You don't end up with two jack inputs... :-/

I also asked him about how close the sound was to his '76:
[i]I found it difficult to distinguish between the original 76 pre and mine on my tests, but it's not just the EQ that sets the sound, it's the bass and the pickup too. Mine is designed to mimic the pre EB EQ curves but gives a little more boost at the extreme of the bass control.[/i]

He also mentioned he'd heard good things from many of his users about the Nordstrand, so it's possible a combination of the two = bass-nirvana. Bassvana?

[danweb22]

Here is a bit of info from Stew at Nordstrand Pickups regarding the G string pole piece alignment.

"Hi Dan,

I think that you have to remember that many of the original designs for
instruments which became the standard production basses and guitars were
made with what was in the shop at any given moment. If there was a flaw in
the design but it still worked *mostly* correctly, it often times became the
norm.

What's even funnier is that some of these designs have now developed rabid
followers and when someone offers a replacement product that compensates for
the original flaw, it is seen in some quarters as nearly heretical!
Consequently players who buy these products are sometimes slammed by
collectors and purists regardless of how the modified instrument sounds or
performs!

You have to love being a musician and being a part of this field.



In all truth, I don't know that the original pickup is too big necessarily.
If you like at many of the J-Basses coming off the Fender assembly line you
will find that the poles do not line up with the strings, but they sound
just fine. Remember that the magnetic field above the pole piece is designed
to pick up the excursion of the string and this -- especially in the case of
a thumped E or a snapped G -- can be a pretty big variance of movement.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further questions.

Thanks for writing and take care,

Stew"

[gafbass02]

I've luckily never experienced this on any of the rays I've owned, but I always thought (dunno where from) that the magnetic pull was greater at the edge of the magnet?

[dave_bass5]

I do find it quite strange the both the E and G pole pieces are the same height, yet the G lacks so much volume.
This doesn't happen on my other basses and their pole pieces are also the same height.

[green]

well, i guess it's pure physics:
if the g-string is just as close to the pickup as the e-string is, then the e-string would have a lot more output, because there is more metal vibrating over the pickup.

so, the g-string may sound weak, because it is too far away from the pole piece.
i don't think it has to do with the center of the pole piece.
the g-string - being so thin - has the biggest amplitude, rigth ?
so, it's necessary to pick it up somehow different sompared to the e-string for example.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='green' post='768395' date='Mar 8 2010, 07:42 PM']well, i guess it's pure physics:
if the g-string is just as close to the pickup as the e-string is, then the e-string would have a lot more output, because there is more metal vibrating over the pickup.

so, the g-string may sound weak, because it is too far away from the pole piece.
i don't think it has to do with the center of the pole piece.
the g-string - being so thin - has the biggest amplitude, rigth ?
so, it's necessary to pick it up somehow different sompared to the e-string for example.[/quote]

Yeah, i get the physics part but my comment was really why its so bad on my SUB and not on my other basses. All my other basses have the E and G pole pieces level and none have lost the G string as much as my Sub.
In fact my Duck Dunn has the same strings on and with the pup perfectly straight i have to almost back off the G string.

[funkgod]

[quote name='green' post='765742' date='Mar 6 2010, 12:10 AM']OH NO !!!
better don't do that again !

there are magnets inside your pickup.
ferromagnetic materials have a so called curie-temperature. if you heat them above that, they lose their magnetic properties.
for alnico magnets, this curie temperature is at about 860°C, but you shouldn't heat it above about 500°C or you will wreck it.

folks, whatever you do: never heat or smash your pickup with a hammer ! you will ruin it ![/quote]


hi green, my fault for not explaining better,
when i said i heated it up, sorry should of said, i heated it up only enough to wharm the wax around the pole, so not very hot at all, my choise was... what the hell worth a try as i was going to get another pickup anyway as i could not live with it the way it was. anyway as said it did not work for reasons stated. but dropping the 4 middle ones is a vast diff on mine, it still has not got the power or tonal range of the G&L. but then again horses for etc,

[dave_bass5]

Just reviving this thread as i just got a SBMM Ray34 and the G is just as weak as my Sub was (before adjustment).
Ive got a heavier G string coming but im also going to knock the A and D pole pieces down as well.

[4 Strings]

Let us know how you get on

[dave_bass5]

Well ive just changed the strings but didn't adjust the pole pieces and it does sound a bit better
I do think a lot of it is the strings and EQ. the .050 does seem to make a difference, then again i find XL's to be a bit more middy so that also probably helps.
Ive not used a G this heavy before but happy to stick with it if it helps.

One thing i noticed last night was when i played finger style the G sounded quite compressed and thin, but played with a pick it cut thorough a bit more.
My first gig with it is not until the 17th April, if i still find it lacking ill attack the pole pieces. And if that doesn't work ill get a nordstrand put in.
For now its fine, just playing through my PC at home.

[artisan]

you've got exactly what i had with mine by the sounds of it,i managed to get the volume even accross all 4 strings but the G just lacked any punch.
i tried changing strings & messed with the pickup heights for ages all to no avail,but once the Nordstrand was fitted the problem just dissapeared & my bass is now perfect + it sounds a lot better too. (this shouldn't be a problem on a £1000 + bass of course)

[dave_bass5]

Yeah, i dont think pup height is going to do anything as ill be raising the D as well.

I check the input levels to my PC last night and all seemed pretty even but this was open strings. If fretted the G just seems to lack substance, but not volume.
I expect ill get a Nordy in at some point, it seems to be the common fix.

[Jigster]

[quote name='artisan' post='786917' date='Mar 26 2010, 01:37 PM']you've got exactly what i had with mine by the sounds of it,i managed to get the volume even accross all 4 strings but the G just lacked any punch.
i tried changing strings & messed with the pickup heights for ages all to no avail,but once the Nordstrand was fitted the problem just dissapeared & my bass is now perfect + it sounds a lot better too. (this shouldn't be a problem on a £1000 + bass of course)[/quote]


you probably said it in this post already, but it's Friday and I'm lazy, where did you source the Nordy pup? got a weblink?

I have mentioned this G problem about my MM before, kind of lived with it for a bit - and this week I put on EB flats and the G seems more present, BUT the Nordy might be an idea

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Jigster' post='787024' date='Mar 26 2010, 03:15 PM']you probably said it in this post already, but it's Friday and I'm lazy, where did you source the Nordy pup? got a weblink?

I have mentioned this G problem about my MM before, kind of lived with it for a bit - and this week I put on EB flats and the G seems more present, BUT the Nordy might be an idea[/quote]

Bass direct have them for £100 + postage.

Thats probably where ill get mine from. I got a Nordy for my DJ5 last year from the USA and it ended up costing me £15 more than getting it from over here, mainly due to customs and being charged for PF to clear it.

Edited March 26, 2010 by dave_bass5

[40hz]

I find this thread quite interesting as my SBMM Ray 34 has no problem whatsoever on the G string. Its even and loud and full of life. Some people say that theirs are dead and others claim to have never experienced this problem. If it is a manufacturing (or design) defect i would imagine that every Stingray would suffer from it?
Its quite puzzling either way.

Edited March 26, 2010 by 40hz

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='40hz' post='787136' date='Mar 26 2010, 04:19 PM']I find this thread quite interesting as my SBMM Ray 34 has no problem whatsoever on the G string. Its even and loud and full of life. Some people say that theirs are dead and others claim to have never experienced this problem. If it is a manufacturing (or design) defect i would imagine that every Stingray would suffer from it?
Its quite puzzling either way. [/quote]

What strings are you using?
Its a wide spread complaint but i dont think its a manufacturing default.
I think its a combination of EQ/strings/setup/playing style. I also dont notice it when im playing on my own. It seems to be a lack of freq's or clashing freq's thats the problem IMHO. And much more so at the bottom of the neck where the G is weaker.

As ive said, my Sub's G string, around the 1st to the 7th fret definitely vanished at gigs, ive got the recordings to show this wasnt just my imagination. It was a lot better once i put some XL's on though.

I did have something similar happen with my Duck Dunn when i first got it and again, changing the strings really helped.

I must admit ive yet ot play my Ray34 through an amp and thats where it counts but ive been using Guitar rig for a few years so i know how things compare.

[40hz]

It is currently strung up with ernie ball super slinky's 045- 100. It's the second set i've put on as i like the tone (while it lasts). At my band practices the G cuts through using the Trace Elliot 1048 running at 300w.

One thing that i've noticed after having a closer examination of the setup is that the nut is cut very low on the G-string, and the G is set lower than any of the others, maybe this has something do with it?

I also use a full bass boost and a notch of extra treble, leaving the mids flat on the preamp. Leaving the amp flat bar a touch of extra bass.

I think its just another Ernie ball 'quirk' like the G string not being inline with the center of the polepiece! Smashing basses though.