Custom Bass vs High end bass

[chenzo_1]

I've been in talks with mike from Iceni guitars about making me a Semi custom built guitar (he had a body and neck lying about) and i just wondered what peoples opinions/ pros & cons are on buying a custom built guitar compared to say a normal high end bass.

[Metalmoore]

Obviously with a custom you get everything you want and the chance to get that dream bass youve always wanted whereas a high end would be great but also much easier to know that the final product sounds/plays the way you want via reviews.

The custom made jazz i made is great, it just needs a replacement saddle and a pro setup (once i save up some money) and would highly recomend DIY'ing it if your peicing it all your self as its great fun.

[hillbilly deluxe]

Something to think about............if you go custom,you may not like the end result,neither may many other people if you decide to sell.

Edited February 24, 2010 by hillbilly deluxe

[pantherairsoft]

The above is true... But I find as a rule of thb the resale value of custom gear is pretty similar to that of comparatively priced high end gear. As long as youndont have your name as an inlay

Just bear in mind you'll never get back what you pay for it.

I'd say make sure you play a few instruments from the Luthier your looking to make the instrumen for you. They may make different models, but they will have 'that feel'. that's what I did, and I own two custom Luthier builds... And they are truely stunning.

Shep

[Lfalex v1.1]

Good topic! Plenty to discuss here, methinks!

I own 2 "high-end " basses (Status Streamline, Vigier Passion V s3). And one of Mike's, which was his Zoot Chaser prototype. No serial number. Nothing.

High-end basses enjoy one insurmountable advantage in my personal opinion;
You get to play it before[i] any[/i] cash changes hands.

With a custom, you've got to have absolute faith in your luthier of choice. Will they deliver [i]exactly[/i] what you wanted / ordered.
If I had the requisite degree of woodworking skill, my guarantee would be something on the lines of;

"Yes, make a downpayment, but if you don't find the instrument to be devastatingly good, I'll refund your money, because I am SO convinced that this instrument is SO good that the next player through the door will fall over themselves to buy it"

How many luthiers would pass that test?

I'll admit that my judgment in this matter is coloured by the fact that I certainly would not buy a (costly) bass that I hadn't played first.

That said, Mike's a good bloke, and my Iceni cost me about the same as a 'Ray (at the time) and I got this;


Oh, and a plus1 for dabbling yourself. There's a lot to learn!

Edited February 24, 2010 by Lfalex v1.1

[pantherairsoft]

[quote]"Yes, make a downpayment, but if you don't find the instrument to be devastatingly good, I'll refund your money, because I am SO convinced that this instrument is SO good that the next player through the door will fall over themselves to buy it"

How many luthiers would pass that test?[/quote]

Bernie @GB said pretty much that. Even a month after I'd had it he still said if I changed my mind he'd take it back... So it's possible. Needless to say his confidence is supported by the fact that his basses are amazing and there is Zero chance I was ever giving it him back!

Edited February 24, 2010 by pantherairsoft

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='pantherairsoft' post='756381' date='Feb 24 2010, 07:26 PM']Bernie @GB said pretty much that. Even a month after I'd had it he still said if I changed my mind he'd take it back... So it's possible. Needless to say his confidence is supported by the fact that his basses are amazing and there is Zero chance I was ever giving it him back![/quote]

Excellent. Plainly a man with whom I could do business!

[henry norton]

Thing is, with most 'custom' basses you are getting a variation based on a luthier's already proven design. You can usually try out something similar then specify certain woods, pickups etc. to suit what you want (or what you [i]think[/i] you want). It's quite rare a luthier will make something totally unique for you.

[E sharp]

[quote name='henry norton' post='756552' date='Feb 24 2010, 10:04 PM']Thing is, with most 'custom' basses you are getting a variation based on a luthier's already proven design. You can usually try out something similar then specify certain woods, pickups etc. to suit what you want (or what you [i]think[/i] you want). It's quite rare a luthier will make something totally unique for you.[/quote]
I think , that you're describing the 'high end' quoted , and not the custom option .
All of the high end makers quoted , will customise to a degree , but normally within parameters .
I wouldn't call Shuker , Status , Fodera , Ritter , Sei , or any of them 'custom builders' , cause they're not .
IMO , a custom buider , is a one man operation , in a shed or garage .
All of the 'big boys' , will not build what you want . I mean , someone on the Statii forum , said that Rob wouldn't move a front pick up back a bit , on a new build Jazz , what's all that about . I suppose nothing wrong with that on the face of it (this is the model , this is what you get) . But not exactly a custom ethos .
As stated , a high end maker , will build a fabulous bass - just have to decide which one .
A custom build may be a bit more of a gamble , and you have to be sure what you want . I know I don't fully , and I suspect most people don't.
Best of luck - you won't regret it (hopefully )

[Rich]

[quote name='E sharp' post='759457' date='Feb 27 2010, 09:42 PM']I wouldn't call Shuker , Status , Fodera , Ritter , Sei , or any of them 'custom builders' , cause they're not .
IMO , a custom buider , is a one man operation , in a shed or garage .[/quote]
Shuker = one-man operation in a small Derbyshire workshop.
Sei = two-man operation in a basement in North London.
Fodera = two-man operation in NYC workshop.

Jon Shuker built me a bass to the design I wanted, from the woods I selected, with a neck profile I dictated, with the electronics and pickups and hardware I chose and the finshed I desired. How, exactly, is that not a 'custom' build?

[budget bassist]

yeah what rich said, jon shuker [i]is[/i] a one man operation in a shed and the only thing that isnt' custom about what he does is the body shape, and i daresay he would probably do a custom shape anyway if presented the right plans, just like someone on here did with iceni/zoot/whatever the hell they're called.

[mikhay77]

[quote name='chenzo_1' post='755935' date='Feb 24 2010, 11:14 AM']I've been in talks with mike from Iceni guitars about making me a Semi custom built guitar (he had a body and neck lying about) and i just wondered what peoples opinions/ pros & cons are on buying a custom built guitar compared to say a normal high end bass.[/quote]
I say go for it,at least it will be quite unique rather than a custom bass that is built to say a fender jazz spec? And no I'm not knocking jazz's I own one but why get a high end or luthier built bass when you could buy one off the peg as it were.Mind you I am lucky enough to own a high end Neuser cloudburst and a Luthier built Bilodeau.Both from one man in a shed.

[E sharp]

[quote name='Rich' post='759475' date='Feb 27 2010, 10:06 PM']Shuker = one-man operation in a small Derbyshire workshop.
Sei = two-man operation in a basement in North London.
Fodera = two-man operation in NYC workshop.

Jon Shuker built me a bass to the design I wanted, from the woods I selected, with a neck profile I dictated, with the electronics and pickups and hardware I chose and the finshed I desired. How, exactly, is that not a 'custom' build?[/quote]
I probably , didn't come accross how I intended , so I apologise .
What I was trying to say , is that high end bass builders are custom , but to a degree .
The SEI interview in BGM is a case in point . Martin said that he is open to any ideas , but it has to be a SEI (not a problem) .
But if you were to say for example , "I want the LIVE AID guitar , with the Africa body , but in a Bass format" , he might not be too willing , as he will customise , but in general , has his set out shapes .
I wasn't meaning to demean any high end builder , as I've been to The Gallery , and bought one , and also been to Status twice - owned 2 and had work done on another .
The original thread opener , was about - Custom or High end . And to get a true custom (which might include options and shapes that aren't available with any of the above) , then a small one man operation is probably your only option . I'm thinking of someone like Martin Booth , who although builds primarily guitars , is open to a one of special - although you may pay alot for it .

[Rich]

Ahhh, gotcha. I see what you're getting at now.

[BigRedX]

All too often IMO strip off a wacky body shape and you're left with a bass that is essentially a P, J or Stingray. It certainly doesn't make it any more custom than the offerings from Sei, Shuker, ACG etc. where the body shape may be (relatively) fixed, but everything else is up for grabs.

TBH the need for the custom builder who will absolutely anything completely from scratch has diminished over the years as more and more luthiers appear each offering a different take on what a bass guitar is. You don't need to find completely custom luthier, because there's an excellent chance that somewhere there is someone who's already building an instrument that is pretty close to what you want.

I know that I would feel happier about commissioning a custom build from someone who's already tried and tested the majority of the features that I want, rather than stepping along with my luthier into the unknown.

When I was looking for someone to build my fretless bass, after trying every production fretless I could get my hands on and being unimpressed with the majority, for feel and sound and all off them for looks, I started by visiting every luthier web site I could find and making a short list of all those who were producing instruments that matched up with what I wanted. I entered into dialogue with those luthiers who's work I admired, went to try examples of their instruments and eventually made my choice.

I picked Sei because their Flamboyant design was very close to my idea of what the bass should look like, and they were prepared to make the few slight alterations to make it exactly what I was after, and the quality of their work was second to none. My finished bass has a Sei vibe, but it's just as much my personal vision of what a fretless bass should be. I went to a luthier and picked an existing design I liked, but I chose the luthier in the first place because they were producing that particular design. Everything else about the bass, the woods, the colours, the pickups and electronics the hardware and the placement of all those items was from Martin's interpretations of what I wanted visually, tonally and playability.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Rich' post='759475' date='Feb 27 2010, 10:06 PM']Shuker = one-man operation in a small Derbyshire workshop.
Sei = two-man operation in a basement in North London.
Fodera = two-man operation in NYC workshop.

Jon Shuker built me a bass to the design I wanted, from the woods I selected, with a neck profile I dictated, with the electronics and pickups and hardware I chose and the finshed I desired. How, exactly, is that not a 'custom' build?[/quote]


Gotta agree, Sei did the same for me and at that time he was working on his own in Queens Park. I think he virtually did everything bar the pup routs by hand..AFAICT.
The options were limitless, I think.... but there is also a risk of being the guinea pig if you go too far left-field.
We decided on the headstock as he was building headless mostly at the time and he had a few designs on file and not long after that, he decided to stick with
that headstock design and it is now his signature.

[largo]

Martin at Sei would only make a bass to a Sei shape when I asked for a custom build, although I did get to choose neck profile, string width etc. Fodera I would imagine do the same.
However, Jon Shuker is a different kettle of fish. He will help design and build a custom bass with any body shape and so I would call Sei high-end and Shuker custom.

[Davo-London]

Yeah, it is a gamble but a small one to go with custom builder. My Cliff Bordwell is such a sweet bass and so so playable it did everything I wanted and was ridiculously cheap as the GBP and USD exchange rate was around 1:2.

If there is a dedicated following on TB or here, then you can tell that the owners are happy and so the gamble is lessened somewhat.

Davo

[Rich]

[quote name='largo' post='760668' date='Mar 1 2010, 01:00 PM']Jon Shuker is a different kettle of fish. He will help design and build a custom bass with any body shape[/quote]
I believe the same is true of ACG, RIM, Jim Fleeting, etc. All low-volume one-man-band operations. Gawd bless 'em every one

[alanbass1]

I ordered a 'custom' made bass (in the spirit of the luthiers shape but my choice of electronics/woods/hardware etc) and was mightily dissappointed with both the end result and after sales service. I did the due dilligence thing but for me it never worked out and I ended up losing a tidy sum as I just wanted rid of the darn thing and most basses from the small builders do not command a high resale value. This was the only time I had done such a thing and the last time I would contemplate doing it.

[dub]

If you really want to know what bass sounds you like the most, then use a portable recorder with a direct input and headphones to record the same bassline on lots of different hi end basses at the same level, (including one made by your luthier). Try flat eq and then with eq adjusted to what you like and keep notes on each one (eq settings pickup setting, playability etc.). Wait a few weeks, then get a friend to play back your recordings in random order so you don't know which is which, but they do. You may well be surprised at which one is your favourite.

[OutToPlayJazz]

The two custom basses (both KingBasses) I had made, I ended up selling, whereas the stock basses I actually tried first have all been keepers. I guess that's the only thing with customs - There's no chance to try before you buy, otherwise you're quite often left with a hyper expensive bass that you don't really get on with.

[largo]

From my point of view, it's choosing the custom "build" that's sometimes the most fun part.
It's like being a luthier without knowing woodwork.... Helping decide on the look, the sort of sound you'd like, the feel of the neck, the finish, the colour, whether to have "fairy" lights, the weight and on and on ....
Then there's the wait, the anticipation, have you made the right choices? Some you win, some you lose. In my experience it's a bit like gambling. If you can afford to lose a little (i.e. the build doesn't work out) then it's worth the gamble and it's addictive. It's been 2 or 3 years since my last build, but I'm already thinking a GB would be a nice build for my next one. Help! It's starting again.