paul_5 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Finished my Idiotbox Blowerbox clone today. I put an extra switch on it for a 'low gain' setting too… It's the first time I've gone for a 'Rat' based dirt box, as I've always been a Muff sort of guy, but I'm loving it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 No laughing now! Probably another dumbass request for help - I've got a free evening so thought i'd get on and replace the 3PDT switch on my Grey Stache - so I've taken the back off the pedal and photographed where the wires go etc but my question relates to the orientation of the new switch, I was thinking (wrongly I reckon) that this should be a fairly straight-forward operation, I'm now concerned I could mount the switch 180 degrees out and potentially cause all sorts of problems - I'm a total noob to DIY electronics as you've probably guessed! Given there are 9 pins and no markings whatsoever to give me a clue I thought I'd ask you very kind souls for some advice. Perhaps I should find a local electronics engineer and trust the job to him/her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 The switch should be arranged so that the terminals/lugs look horizontal. This is only really for the wiring really, so you can follow diagrams. Once wired, the orientation doesn't really matter......although usually your wires should be short enough that you can't really spin it round. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Cheers Si, I knew this would be kinda tricky to explain, the old switch has the pins mounted vertically and I suppose what I mean is that the pin currently mounted in the top left corner is wired to the input jack (the shorter terminal on the jack), I guess what I'm trying to get at is if the switch is mounted in the casing 180 degrees out, the top left pin on the switch would now be bottom right, so I'm concerned (as i don't really understand how the switch works) whether i could cause damage/further problems with the pedal. Apologies if this makes no sense, I've been up since 5am and brain is a bit frazzled, thought this would be fairly therapeutic, but instead has me worried! Perhaps I should reconsider on my day off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Essentially, wire it exactly the same as you see it on the photo, then you can't go wrong Add me on facebook if you like and we can chat it out (link in my sig) Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Thor' timestamp='1405538823' post='2502909'] Cheers Si, I knew this would be kinda tricky to explain, the old switch has the pins mounted vertically and I suppose what I mean is that the pin currently mounted in the top left corner is wired to the input jack (the shorter terminal on the jack), I guess what I'm trying to get at is if the switch is mounted in the casing 180 degrees out, the top left pin on the switch would now be bottom right, so I'm concerned (as i don't really understand how the switch works) whether i could cause damage/further problems with the pedal. Apologies if this makes no sense, I've been up since 5am and brain is a bit frazzled, thought this would be fairly therapeutic, but instead has me worried! Perhaps I should reconsider on my day off? [/quote] I sometimes have crises of confidence so I try to make as many notes as possible. I like to draw the switch and all the links so that I can label them in a way that makes sense to me. I also use coloured pens (the kind that you use on CDs that doesn't wipe off easily) on the switch and circuit board. That way if my mind goes blank I will have a simple reference. The easiest way to think of a 3pdt switch is as 3 spdt switches stuck together side by side. Edited July 16, 2014 by KingBollock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1405192120' post='2499612'] The problem I am having is working out how to make it do what I want it to do. I will basically have two pedals in one box, a fairly standard Big Muff and a Musket, but I want them to share an RGB tri-colour LED, with a shared anode. When the Muff is on I want the LED to glow green, when the Musket is on I want it to glow red, but when both pedals are on together I want it to glow blue. As it is I can't figure out how to do it. I can't find a red/blue bi-colour LED so if I do decide that I definitely can't make it work how I want, I will still have to buy the tri-colour one and just not use the green cathode. [/quote] How complicated do you want to get? It would be pretty easy with a couple of logic ICs - hex inverter (you use five inverters) and quad AND (you use three gates). CMOS chips will run at 9V which is what you want (TTL only goes up to 5V). Run the Big Muff LED signal to the A input of AND 1, the A input of AND 3, and via an inverter to the A input of AND 2. Run the Musket LED signal to the B input of AND 2, the B input of AND 3, and via the other inverter to the B input of AND 1. AND 1 output goes to the green anode, AND 2 output to the red anode, AND 3 output to the blue anode, and you connect the common cathode to 0V with a resistor, or maybe put the resistor between the AND gates and the anodes. The logic is pretty simple - LED 1 is A.!B, LED2 is !A.B, and LED3 is A.B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 [quote name='Thor' timestamp='1405538823' post='2502909'] Cheers Si, I knew this would be kinda tricky to explain, the old switch has the pins mounted vertically and I suppose what I mean is that the pin currently mounted in the top left corner is wired to the input jack (the shorter terminal on the jack), I guess what I'm trying to get at is if the switch is mounted in the casing 180 degrees out, the top left pin on the switch would now be bottom right, so I'm concerned (as i don't really understand how the switch works) whether i could cause damage/further problems with the pedal. [/quote] 180 degrees out wouldn't matter, but those 9-ways can easily be put in 90 degrees out (I've done it myself). Get a multimeter on it and as KB says, map it out. Simplest way is to put one probe on the centre pin and then go round the four pins at the centre of each side until you get a connection, then you know what the orientation is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) When I made the Big Muff my initial intension was to mod the bejesus out of it, but after changing a component or two I decided that I didn't want to mess with it any more as I like it as it is. But I have quite a big box for it in anticipation of the extra stuff that was going to go in it and it seemed a shame to have it rattling around in there on its own. While looking for nice mods I came across the Musket, so I have decided to build one of those and put it in the same box. Unfortunately both vero board layouts are 19 holes wide, so on the same board would be 38 holes wide, 2 holes too many. I have redesigned the layouts slightly to make them fit on a 34 hole wide board. I can't have the board orientated lengthways because then I couldn't get the jack sockets and the footswitch in. But for [reasons] my head has been all over the place recently and I am not as confident as when I built the Muff the first time and I am afraid I might have made obvious and important mistakes that I just can't see, I was hoping that if I posted it on here new eyes might spot anything that I haven't. This is the layout I want to use: The line between Q and R splits the board. The teal coloured jumper wire is just to remind me to use sleeved wire. For comparison is the original Big Muff layout that I used: And this is the Musket layout I am basing mine on. The only other difference is going to be an order switcher in the off board wiring. It is going to be tight, but with both pedals on the same board like this, and not separate and overlapping, and only using one multicoloured LED (red with the Muff, blue with the Musket and purple with both), it will all fit. So if someone could tell me whether I have completely cocked it up or not, before I start on it, that would be ace. Edited July 18, 2014 by KingBollock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Well, I have built the Musket side using the new layout and it worked first time. Well, sort of. I blew an LED because I forgot to put a resistor in front of it, luckily it had used a cheapo one, just in case, rather than the expensive RGB one I have bought for the job. And after that I found that the pedal went silent when I turned it on, before realising that I had forgotten to put the transistors in their sockets... BUT, other than that it worked first time... Not had a chance to try it at any real volume, it being 5am, but I like it so far. Wishing I had bought all new components for the Big Muff side, now. Don't want to have to take the other, nicely working, one apart. I've probably got enough stuff to do it, but my resistors are all carbon film, rather than metal film. Need to stock up properly on metal film ones. When buying for the Musket I ordered 10 or 20 of each resistor, depending on how many the kit needed, so I would have plenty left over. Bought twice as many transistors as I needed, but I had plenty of capacitors and diodes. It's nice watching my component draws filling up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Yup, I am back again and asking for more advice... I have been, slowly, going through this thread properly. I saw the stuff about making an audio probe. So I got thinking about building a small, maybe 1w, amp and signal generator, all in one box that can sit on my work bench. I would use banana plug sockets, including the required capacitor for the probe, that way I can just use some of my multimeter test leads, and a 1/4" output jack from the signal generator. I need to find designs for a simple amp and a signal generator. I have seen the Ruby and Cricket amps but I want something clean, no distortion. Is there a way to give those masses of headroom before they clip? Not sure how helpful being able to create different signal waves from the generator would be, but it would be good to have it create a range of signal to include the lowest notes of a bass and highest of a guitar. This would mean I won't have to learn to play bass with my toes, or make a compliant friend to strum for me, when mucking about with the probe. I will be using veroboard and don't want to spend money on a complete kit. Basically, if I need to buy bits that I don't have, I have to be able to get them from Bitsbox, so it would be helpful if there weren't any obscure components. When it is done I will post results if anyone is interested in doing one for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I could use some pointers to troubleshoot a non-working pedal. Pedal is a PedalParts Blue Fool MXR Blue Box clone. Everything is in the right place, electrolytic is in the right way round, ICs ditto . Diodes check out with my multimeter so haven't been fried. Wired it up without the foot switch so the circuit is permanently on and tried it with a guitar and amp. Signal is very weak but just about audible, so quiet that it's hard to tell if there's any distortion or not. I'm guessing there's a dry joint somewhere, but nothing looks wrong to my not-very-well trained eye. I have the link to the audio probe at diy-fever.com from earlier in this thread and I will build one. Is the capacitance value in the probe critical? I have some spares but not the exact value as used in the diagram of the probe. Any other helpful tips for dealing with it, particularly to tell if there is a problem with the ICs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1405945332' post='2506750'] Yup, I am back again and asking for more advice... I have been, slowly, going through this thread properly. I saw the stuff about making an audio probe. So I got thinking about building a small, maybe 1w, amp and signal generator, all in one box that can sit on my work bench. I would use banana plug sockets, including the required capacitor for the probe, that way I can just use some of my multimeter test leads, and a 1/4" output jack from the signal generator. I need to find designs for a simple amp and a signal generator. I have seen the Ruby and Cricket amps but I want something clean, no distortion. Is there a way to give those masses of headroom before they clip? Not sure how helpful being able to create different signal waves from the generator would be, but it would be good to have it create a range of signal to include the lowest notes of a bass and highest of a guitar. This would mean I won't have to learn to play bass with my toes, or make a compliant friend to strum for me, when mucking about with the probe. I will be using veroboard and don't want to spend money on a complete kit. Basically, if I need to buy bits that I don't have, I have to be able to get them from Bitsbox, so it would be helpful if there weren't any obscure components. When it is done I will post results if anyone is interested in doing one for themselves. [/quote] Instead of a signal generator to create you test tones, could you record a series of notes or tones on phone/walkman/small recording device and use that as a test signal ? Just a thought. You'd still need some kind of probe to inject them into the circuit though. As for the amp - if you're tinking of putting bass through it then a amp with a small speaker it might struggle with the bass. Sorry, these are just musings really.... There are quite a few audio amp chips you could use to make a simple, low volatage amp - maybe a LM386 or a TDA300 ? Edited July 22, 2014 by ahpook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 [quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1405535221' post='2502855'] Finished my Idiotbox Blowerbox clone today. I put an extra switch on it for a 'low gain' setting too… It's the first time I've gone for a 'Rat' based dirt box, as I've always been a Muff sort of guy, but I'm loving it. [/quote] The blowerbox has me intrigued, but they're quite expensive and there weren't any for sale last time I looked! Where did you get the schematic/layout from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 [quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1406027163' post='2507569'] Instead of a signal generator to create you test tones, could you record a series of notes or tones on phone/walkman/small recording device and use that as a test signal ? Just a thought. You'd still need some kind of probe to inject them into the circuit though. As for the amp - if you're tinking of putting bass through it then a amp with a small speaker it might struggle with the bass. Sorry, these are just musings really.... There are quite a few audio amp chips you could use to make a simple, low volatage amp - maybe a LM386 or a TDA300 ? [/quote] I did actually add in my own notes the idea of adding a jack socket for an MP3 player for that purpose, but forgot to mention it here. But I really like the idea of having most of it all in one box, I was going to include a speaker inside the box. I would prefer to build a signal generator because this is just as much about the fun of building the project as it is how useful it will be afterwards. As it will just be used to follow a signal and determine where the signal is effected in the circuit, I'm not bothered about it being able to handle bass, I just need it to be clean so I can tell when the effect is working. If the signal is getting through and the effect is doing what it's supposed to through this test box, then I can do final testing with whatever instrument and amp it is intended for. I only have an LM741, but it's not a problem, once if know what I need I will add it to my next Bitsbox order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1406035537' post='2507696'] I would prefer to build a signal generator because this is just as much about the fun of building the project as it is how useful it will be afterwards. [/quote] That's a sentiment I can understand ! I've just dug out an old book I have "Audio Projects" by F.G. Bayer (ISBN [font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"][size="2"]9780859340656[/size][/font]) which has a schematics for a miniature audio tracer and a pen generator - might be worth seeing if you can get hold of a copy - it's quite a nice little book overall. Edited July 22, 2014 by ahpook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1405716597' post='2504751'] The only other difference is going to be an order switcher in the off board wiring. It is going to be tight, but with both pedals on the same board like this, and not separate and overlapping, and only using one multicoloured LED (red with the Muff, blue with the Musket and purple with both), it will all fit. [/quote] Not going for the logic-powered three-colour system then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 [quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1406115480' post='2508430'] Not going for the logic-powered three-colour system then? [/quote] Probably not. I am taking rather a long time getting this done, I am going through some personal crap that is sapping my concentration and will somewhat. I think that if I found a schematic, and it was small enough, I might. The way I am putting the two effects onto the same veroboard leaves me with a section of 5 strips by 17 holes, because that's how much smaller the Muff is than the Musket as I have redesigned it, that I could use for something. I'm just not up to designing it myself right now. I haven't even tested my theory that having the red and blue on together will actually make it look purple in my simplified version. I know red and blue do make purple but will it just look like red and blue sitting beside each other in the LED? I'll figure something out, eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I've run into another problem with my LED... I have an RGB LED, the plan was to have it glow red for one effect, blue for the other, then when both effects are on it would glow both colours, hopefully making it look purple. Yeah... Not so much... The problem is that when the red part is on it completely takes over, I don't mean it outshines the other colours, the other colours won't glow. It will do the green and the blue at the same time, but if you have either the blue or the green glowing and you kick in the red, the other colour will shut off and you just get the red. The green and blue at the same times looks rubbish. Is this normal? I think this pedal might be cursed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1406315150' post='2510605'] The problem is that when the red part is on it completely takes over, I don't mean it outshines the other colours, the other colours won't glow. It will do the green and the blue at the same time, but if you have either the blue or the green glowing and you kick in the red, the other colour will shut off and you just get the red. The green and blue at the same times looks rubbish. Is this normal? I think this pedal might be cursed. [/quote] Could you tweak the values of the current limiting resistors to tame the relative brightness ? I'm guessing here as I've never used an RGB LED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 [quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1406315765' post='2510612'] Could you tweak the values of the current limiting resistors to tame the relative brightness ? I'm guessing here as I've never used an RGB LED. [/quote] It's not the brightness. Turning on the red actually, physically turns the others off, even though the blue and green can be on together. And it's a common anode, so there is only one resistor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 [quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1406317756' post='2510625'] It's not the brightness. Turning on the red actually, physically turns the others off, even though the blue and green can be on together. And it's a common anode, so there is only one resistor. [/quote] OK, hopefullly someone else has had more experience with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DolganoFF Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Common anode doesn't mean you cannot have separate resistors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 [quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1406319256' post='2510644'] OK, hopefullly someone else has had more experience with them. [/quote] I feel like I have just started college again, I seem to have forgotten more than I ever bloomin' knew. Mind you, blue LEDs were only invented while I was in college. Lots of people got very excited about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 [quote name='DolganoFF' timestamp='1406319681' post='2510650'] Common anode doesn't mean you cannot have separate resistors! [/quote] Eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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