TC system. First gig, minor disappointment?

[bobpalt]

I did my first proper gig last night with my new TC450 and 2 x 210 TC cabs, and along with our soundman, was mildly disappointed, which really surprised me as at home and in the shop, I was blown away by the sound and couldnt wait to get on stage.

The gig was in a fair sized room with high ceilings in a stately home, on a solid floor (no stage), and I was using a Zon Custom bass, but try as we did (and there are still a shedload of control knob combinations we didnt try due to time constraints), we couldnt seem to get rid of a heavy mid bias in the sound without going very "soft and bottomy", which we settled on. I guess it was a combination of the somewhat sterile sound of the Zon, the room itself, the 10" speakers and a lack of familiarity with the amp and cabs, but it wasnt great.

I have therefore bought a single 112 TC cab to put under a 210 cab, rather than use 2 x 210 cabs to see if that is any better. What do the panel think of this as a solution? Is it more likely to be a bass/room problem, or something we will resolve when we have used the system more and got used to it, or maybe its the inherent sound of TC systems that I just have to get used to? I love the ergonomics of the amp, and have several other basses I could use that maybe arent as clinical as the Zon, but has anyone had a similar experience?

[MythSte]

[quote name='bobpalt' post='759685' date='Feb 28 2010, 12:04 PM']I did my first proper gig last night with my new TC450 and 2 x 210 TC cabs, and along with our soundman, was mildly disappointed, which really surprised me as at home and in the shop, I was blown away by the sound and couldnt wait to get on stage.

The gig was in a fair sized room with high ceilings in a stately home, on a solid floor (no stage), and I was using a Zon Custom bass, but try as we did (and there are still a shedload of control knob combinations we didnt try due to time constraints), we couldnt seem to get rid of a heavy mid bias in the sound without going very "soft and bottomy", which we settled on. I guess it was a combination of the somewhat sterile sound of the Zon, the room itself, the 10" speakers and a lack of familiarity with the amp and cabs, but it wasnt great.

I have therefore bought a single 112 TC cab to put under a 210 cab, rather than use 2 x 210 cabs to see if that is any better. What do the panel think of this as a solution? Is it more likely to be a bass/room problem, or something we will resolve when we have used the system more and got used to it, or maybe its the inherent sound of TC systems that I just have to get used to? I love the ergonomics of the amp, and have several other basses I could use that maybe arent as clinical as the Zon, but has anyone had a similar experience?[/quote]

That sounds like a real shame! Obviously, the room sounds less than ideal so I'd wait for another gig in a more "normal" gig environment before making to many changes.

I suppose thats one of the hard parts about all these lovely digital amps, changing anything on the fly can be a bit tricky! It might also be that you've got your centre frequencies on the EQ set in places that just arent working for you at the moment. Have a hunt around for amps you do like centre frequence's and adjust accordingly.

Not sure how much, if any difference the 12 will make, but good luck!

[MythSte]

Just realised its the classic your talking about and not the RebelHead... Ignore all the digital bits i wittered on about! ^_^

[wayne58]

Hi Bob
We met at the ACG bash, I have the Rebelhead 450 and two Berg AE112's and it took me a little while to get used to the eq I must admit.
I am not exactly a technical player myself and I stuck with it, but don't be afraid to make radical adjustments to experiment until you get the right sound.
Also give your ears enough time to adjust, I went through this process after using a Hybrid amp for many years.

I am now well pleased with my rig and wouldn't swap.

Good luck
Cameron

[Pete Academy]

What rig has been replaced by the TC?

[thebassman]

[quote name='bobpalt' post='759685' date='Feb 28 2010, 12:04 PM']I did my first proper gig last night with my new TC450 and 2 x 210 TC cabs, and along with our soundman, was mildly disappointed, which really surprised me as at home and in the shop, I was blown away by the sound and couldnt wait to get on stage.

The gig was in a fair sized room with high ceilings in a stately home, on a solid floor (no stage), and I was using a Zon Custom bass, but try as we did (and there are still a shedload of control knob combinations we didnt try due to time constraints), we couldnt seem to get rid of a heavy mid bias in the sound without going very "soft and bottomy", which we settled on. I guess it was a combination of the somewhat sterile sound of the Zon, the room itself, the 10" speakers and a lack of familiarity with the amp and cabs, but it wasnt great.

I have therefore bought a single 112 TC cab to put under a 210 cab, rather than use 2 x 210 cabs to see if that is any better. What do the panel think of this as a solution? Is it more likely to be a bass/room problem, or something we will resolve when we have used the system more and got used to it, or maybe its the inherent sound of TC systems that I just have to get used to? I love the ergonomics of the amp, and have several other basses I could use that maybe arent as clinical as the Zon, but has anyone had a similar experience?[/quote]

hi bob
sorry to hear you are having problems, I am sure it will work out. These amps get great reviews.
I am loving the Mesa boogie fathom btw.
Have you received your tc tuner yet! Would be great to hear a user review.
Cheers
martin

[bobpalt]

Thanks guys, for all the advice.

It is a Rebel Head (but I have also bought a Classic as well to use as a back up, as I was so convinced I would be very happy with the sound) It has replaced a Mesa Boogie Fathom/Carbine combo, which was superb, and I'm really glad that Martin, who bought it off me, is loving it! My wife said I was crazy selling it, as she thought the Mesa was a quantum leap better than any amp I have ever had (and told me again at the gig last night, which didnt help!) I have to admit that almost the sole reason for buying the TC rig, apart from the great reviews, was because I thought the idea of a "high" stack, putting one tall cab on top of another, would help me to hear what I was playing on stage. I have a hearing aid coming next month, as I have (through playing in the band) lost most of my high frequencies and am finding it more and more difficult to hear on stage. I rely very much on our sound man for stage adjustments.

I hope that adding the single 12 might fill the sound out a bit, but of course, I havent given it a proper run out yet, and only time and adjustment/experiment will tell. I guess with all the hype I just thought that I would switch it on and be in paradise!

TC tuner coming on Monday, which stupidly, I am quite excited about!!!

Bob

[chris_b]

You need a plan which doesn't involve spending any more money! Just use the TC rig for the next few months and, starting flat, try small EQ adjustments at each gig. It may just be that the Zon is too hifi and won't work with this amp no matter what you do. Take another bass, you have a big enough choice! Some rooms are just bad and suck the tone out of an amp so wait until you've gigged a few more times before you condemn the TC rig. But, ultimately I think your wife might be right on this!!

Edited February 28, 2010 by chris_b

[Musicman20]

Do you mean the rig didn't have enough bottom end girth?

I haven't gigged all mine yet, but I opted for a 212 as well so I had lots of choice.

Despite the problems of mixing drivers, the rs212+210 sounds great to me at a highish volume.

Are you missing the thump? Those tens are very punchy by nature.

The amp has tons of low end...I have to back it off haha!

[bobpalt]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='759849' date='Feb 28 2010, 03:57 PM']Do you mean the rig didn't have enough bottom end girth?

I haven't gigged all mine yet, but I opted for a 212 as well so I had lots of choice.

Despite the problems of mixing drivers, the rs212+210 sounds great to me at a highish volume.

Are you missing the thump? Those tens are very punchy by nature.

The amp has tons of low end...I have to back it off haha![/quote]

Its hard to explain, but the sound seemed to be all mids, with not a great deal of bottom, and our sound guy said it was masking the guitar sounds in some way? We had to dial a lot of the mids out on the bass, and a little on the amp, and turn the tweeters down, which left me with a warm fuzzy sound, which of course could have been due to the room, so I will reserve judgement until a few more gigs are under my belt. The bass sound on stage didnt travel to the far side of the stage very well though, when usually the guys can hear me fine over there.

I did go to Bassdirect with the intention of buying a 210 and a 212, and actually preferred the sound of the 12s, but Mark explained that having a mixture of sizes wasnt always a good thing and the 10s would be great. I hope the addition of a single 12 may help? I didnt actually realize that the 212s would be that much bigger than the 210s either, which I didnt really want.

Edited February 28, 2010 by bobpalt

[Pete Academy]

Changing gear that you're used to is always a daunting task. You need to be patient and experiment with your EQ at different gigs. Maybe the venue wasn't ideal acoustically. Our guitarist plays bass and he has recently bought a Markbass rig - LMK head and 2 x New Yorker 406 cabs. He was previously used to a couple of Peavey 2 x 10" cabs. At first he thought he might have made a mistake, but after a few gigs he's happy with the choice.

Persevere a bit longer before you give up on the new rig.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='bobpalt' post='760007' date='Feb 28 2010, 06:47 PM']Its hard to explain, but the sound seemed to be all mids, with not a great deal of bottom, and our sound guy said it was masking the guitar sounds in some way? We had to dial a lot of the mids out on the bass, and a little on the amp, and turn the tweeters down, which left me with a warm fuzzy sound, which of course could have been due to the room, so I will reserve judgement until a few more gigs are under my belt. The bass sound on stage didnt travel to the far side of the stage very well though, when usually the guys can hear me fine over there.

I did go to Bassdirect with the intention of buying a 210 and a 212, and actually preferred the sound of the 12s, but Mark explained that having a mixture of sizes wasnt always a good thing and the 10s would be great. I hope the addition of a single 12 may help? I didnt actually realize that the 212s would be that much bigger than the 210s either, which I didnt really want.[/quote]

Ah I see. Hmm, I have settings but none of them are 'gig' settings yet.

I was a little apprehensive about mixing, but I had an in depth email from TC (Uffe who seems to be behind the design) and he stated they are designed to be mixed. There is science that says you shouldn't, but damn it, it does sound good!

I have dual 210s coming and a 212 so I have all options covered...the 12s do sound nice but I also wanted a vertical 4x10.

The threads on talkbass are great, I'm sure they could help out. My advice would be to dial down the hi mids, boost the bass a few clicks, and fiddle with the centre freq. It's got great options...the most extensive eq I've used before.

It is worth mentioning the first time I ever heard one in GuitarGuitar, the settings were awful and 'wrong' with the preset volumes way low.

Next time I tried it properly and now I'm hooked!

[MOSCOWBASS]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='760056' date='Feb 28 2010, 07:31 PM']Ah I see. Hmm, I have settings but none of them are 'gig' settings yet.

I was a little apprehensive about mixing, but I had an in depth email from TC (Uffe who seems to be behind the design) and he stated they are designed to be mixed. There is science that says you shouldn't, but damn it, it does sound good!

I have dual 210s coming and a 212 so I have all options covered...the 12s do sound nice but I also wanted a vertical 4x10.

The threads on talkbass are great, I'm sure they could help out. My advice would be to dial down the hi mids, boost the bass a few clicks, and fiddle with the centre freq. It's got great options...the most extensive eq I've used before.

It is worth mentioning the first time I ever heard one in GuitarGuitar, the settings were awful and 'wrong' with the preset volumes way low.

Next time I tried it properly and now I'm hooked![/quote]

These TC amps are reviewed as being a bit dark.....Try a Tecamp Puma 1000.

[JTUK]

You should indeed give it more time.

I would use a bass you know inside out as some set-ups have just so much EQ, you are going to go round in circles with a new amp with so much scope.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='JTUK' post='760236' date='Feb 28 2010, 10:28 PM']You should indeed give it more time.

I would use a bass you know inside out as some set-ups have just so much EQ, you are going to go round in circles with a new amp with so much scope.[/quote]

+1....agreed.