advantages of fretless basses?

[JordanRLS]

I've been racking my brains for a while, and i can't think of any advantages other than personal preference on the aesthetics, or the feel of the neck. are there any actual physical advantages? or is it just because of these preferences? opinions?

[Higgie]

[quote name='JordanRLS' post='762121' date='Mar 2 2010, 07:24 PM']I've been racking my brains for a while, and i can't think of any advantages other than personal preference on the aesthetics, or the feel of the neck. are there any actual physical advantages? or is it just because of these preferences? opinions?[/quote]

They sound different. There are different techniques involved. For me it's a completely separate instrument!

[Spoombung]

[quote name='JordanRLS' post='762121' date='Mar 2 2010, 07:24 PM']I've been racking my brains for a while, and i can't think of any advantages other than personal preference on the aesthetics, or the feel of the neck. are there any actual physical advantages? or is it just because of these preferences? opinions?[/quote]

Advantages? It's a different instrument.

[JordanRLS]

[quote name='Higgie' post='762127' date='Mar 2 2010, 07:27 PM']They sound different. There are different techniques involved. For me it's a completely separate instrument![/quote]

I see. Now you mention it, a difference in sound makes sense

[Jerry_B]

There is a tendency to think that their difference in sound means that they only suit certain kinds of music and playing techniques. At the end of the day it's down to the individual in terms of what's right or wrong with that. So some see them as best suited to jazzy finger-playing. I tend to like messing about with them for punky, distorted stuff, played with a pick. You're only really limited by what you can think up.

[chris_b]

You can do better slides on a fretless!

[goingdownslow]

No fret buzz.

[KERMITNT]

round or flat strings also make difference. you can play out of tune as well fretless is a limitless world i think most of you that you agree on that!!

[Bloodaxe]

I went fretless about 10 months ago, & I'm now more inclined to ask



...advantages of [b]fretted[/b] basses?

Pete.

[7string]

It's a personal taste thing. It's a different sound and you can play anything on a fretless that you can on a fretted.

It takes a while to get used to playing one though, but this is time well spent.

[thisnameistaken]

Fretless is seriously out of fashion at the moment because it's so closely associated with chorus-soaked '80s music. It's a much more interesting instrument than that.

I played nothing but fretless for about 5 years in the '90s, I really liked how expressive it could be. And I don't mean "cheesy ballad expressive" either.

[Doddy]

I really enjoy fretless-it gives you options that are unavailable on a fretted
bass.
For me,it's main problems come from the fact that many players add vibrato onto
nearly every note,and the overuse of glissando's. It has a great sound in itself with
relying on the techniques that are now available.
I did some recordings a few years ago on fretless,and it had a really nice mellow,
'pop-py' tone that was very different to my fretted basses. However,you wouldn't
know it was fretless,because I didn't use the cliched techniques. I wouldn't say that
playing fretless is an advantage,but I like the fact that it gives you a new range of
tonal options.

[thisnameistaken]

TBH I used to bung on a lot of vibrato in loud passages, just to make it sound a bit nutsy and unpredictable. I didn't gliss much except for the occasional harmonic or double stop octaves leading into big dynamic changes.

To me the thing that makes fretless uncool is that most players use it for slow songs, or bury it in chorus. Or both. Fretless sounds much more interesting when wielded aggressively!

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4OhIU-PmB8"]Case in point[/url].

[mike13]

Fretless are great for an upright sound,but easier to carry and play,I use a Bass Collection ebony board and Alembic activator eletronics

Edited March 3, 2010 by mike13

[beardybass]

I agree with the 'they're a totally different monkey' viewpoint, I also think they can be a really good way of making something sound more interesting! Like if you've got a fairly generic sounding piece of music and you start playing it on fretless, it can add a whole new dimension to it. I love 'em.

I also went through a fretless only phase a few years ago, when I was playing in a funk rock band, it was a lot of fun, really does a lot for your technique as well.

[51m0n]

The other day I put fretless on a pretty full on bluesy rock track for a band, as a bit of an experiment (it was the VMJ).

Hardly any gliss, and no silly vibrato (nothing more obvious than you would get on a fretted), except in one section of the track which had a really catchy 'trippy'guitar part.

The warm woody nature of the fretless sound really worked in context, surprised at just how great it sounded. And I am in no way a good fretless player, if I didnt have those handy lines on the board I'd be pretty screwed

Its a completely different beast tonally, it offers a world of microtonal expression (for an expert) it can be played properly in tune (by an expert), it looks way cool (even to a non-expert) and is considered a tougher instrument to play (by everyone).

If you dont drench it in effects it sounds gorgeous. If you drench it in effects it sounds like a reject fro a dodgy 80's covers band...

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='Bloodaxe' post='762391' date='Mar 2 2010, 11:35 PM']I went fretless about 10 months ago, & I'm now more inclined to ask

...advantages of [b]fretted[/b] basses? [/quote]
+1 on that
[EDIT: Except it's a whole universe easier to slap on a fretted bass and not have it sound like a robot choking to death on a rubber band.]

[quote name='51m0n' post='762641' date='Mar 3 2010, 09:57 AM']it offers a world of microtonal expression (for an expert)[/quote]
I'll be using that in future. "Whaddya mean? I'm perfectly in tune; I'm an expert in microtonal expression."

[quote name='51m0n' post='762641' date='Mar 3 2010, 09:57 AM']If you dont drench it in effects it sounds gorgeous. If you drench it in effects it sounds like a reject fro a dodgy 80's covers band...[/quote]
Fretless + fuzz = pure awesome. Roll off the tone and you don't need no stinkin' synth bass.

Edited March 3, 2010 by BottomEndian

[51m0n]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='762687' date='Mar 3 2010, 10:26 AM']+1 on that
[EDIT: Except it's a whole universe easier to slap on a fretted bass and not have it sound like a robot choking to death on a rubber band.]


I'll be using that in future. "Whaddya mean? I'm perfectly in tune; I'm an expert in microtonal expression."


[b]Fretless + fuzz = pure awesome. Roll off the tone and you don't need no stinkin' synth bass[/b].[/quote]


So in that case youd be in a dodgy 70's AND 80's covers band

I do agree about the slap thing, though there was a time where you'd find fretless basses with a bass inlay 'slap plate' at the top of the neck for your strings to bounce off when slapping. That worked really well!

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='7string' post='762406' date='Mar 2 2010, 11:45 PM']you can play anything on a fretless that you can on a fretted.[/quote]

Except, for me, if playing two notes a distance apart (fretwise) your range is effectively increased on the fretted because you don't have to stretch quite as far. ie you only have to stretch say 3 1/2 frets instead of 4.

[valere24]

Have you ever [b]heard[/b] a fretless bass? That will answer your questions.
It's a different sound, different technique, different feel.

It's like asking, what's the advantage of an electric bass compared to a tuba or a minimoog :-)

Suggested listening:
- "A remark you made" on Weather report's "heavy weather" album - Jaco pastorius
- "Hey You" on Pink Floyd's the wall album - I think it was David Gilmour playing bass for this
- "Whereever I lay my hat" - Paul Young - Pino Palladino

[quote name='JordanRLS' post='762121' date='Mar 2 2010, 07:24 PM']I've been racking my brains for a while, and i can't think of any advantages other than personal preference on the aesthetics, or the feel of the neck. are there any actual physical advantages? or is it just because of these preferences? opinions?[/quote]

[josh3184]

No speed bumps

[Conan]

Jaco is usually held up as the paragon of virtue on a fretless (whatever that means!), but often you can't tell that he is actually playing a fretless! He tended not to overdo the vibrato/glissando stuff and ended up with a very "punchy" tone. Compare that to, say, Pino Paladino's work in the early and mid eighties where the slides and stuff were rather overdone... a different kettle of fish altogether. Jeff Berlin is another unusual example as he can make a fretted bass sound like a fretless! Check out his playing on Bill Bruford's "Feels good to me".

They are as different or as similar as you want them to be. One of the reasons I have given up fretless playing (for the moment anyway) is that I was annoying myself by slipping into all those eighties stereotypes and cliches. Boring.

Horses for courses though!

[valere24]

Good point...

I like to think of the fretless as a "horn" - the sound is expressive, and you've got a similar control on the pitch/vibrato.

A guy like Gary Willis is probably a good illustrator of the approach... His soloing is very melodic, "horn" like, and it doesn't overdo the slide/vibrato thing (if any at all).

At the opposite part of the spectrum take Percy Jones... I respect what he does, but I struggle to find the musicality in it sometimes.

[quote name='Conan' post='762759' date='Mar 3 2010, 11:30 AM']Jaco is usually held up as the paragon of virtue on a fretless (whatever that means!), but often you can't tell that he is actually playing a fretless! He tended not to overdo the vibrato/glissando stuff and ended up with a very "punchy" tone. Compare that to, say, Pino Paladino's work in the early and mid eighties where the slides and stuff were rather overdone... a different kettle of fish altogether. Jeff Berlin is another unusual example as he can make a fretted bass sound like a fretless! Check out his playing on Bill Bruford's "Feels good to me".

They are as different or as similar as you want them to be. One of the reasons I have given up fretless playing (for the moment anyway) is that I was annoying myself by slipping into all those eighties stereotypes and cliches. Boring.

Horses for courses though![/quote]

[JMT3781]

I've been through three fretless basses. Each time i have bought one, tried to use it in a band i just ended up putting down, thinking that it simply doesnt work becuase the sound of the bass wasnt right. So i've sold and bought different ones and had the same problem. Its only since doing new york minute by don henley in a band that my current has sounded right... So i've come to the conclusion that one of the main things in fretless playing is using it in the correct setting

[Beedster]

[quote name='Conan' post='762759' date='Mar 3 2010, 11:30 AM']Jaco is usually held up as the paragon of virtue on a fretless (whatever that means!), but often you can't tell that he is actually playing a fretless! He tended not to overdo the vibrato/glissando stuff and ended up with a very "punchy" tone. Compare that to, say, Pino Paladino's work in the early and mid eighties where the slides and stuff were rather overdone... a different kettle of fish altogether. Jeff Berlin is another unusual example as he can make a fretted bass sound like a fretless! Check out his playing on Bill Bruford's "Feels good to me".

They are as different or as similar as you want them to be. One of the reasons I have given up fretless playing (for the moment anyway) is that I was annoying myself by slipping into all those eighties stereotypes and cliches. Boring.

Horses for courses though![/quote]

Agreed. Let's not forget that the whole 'fretless slide & vibrato/glissando' thing was partly a means of bassist holding their own in bands increasingly dominated by the left/bass hand of overly dominant keyboard players. Slap and fretless are as identified with 80's pop as, and because of, over-produced keyboards. There's a reason why the basses of the era were either very scooped for slap or very middy for fretless.

Jaco believed that it was easier to play fretless than fretted. He practiced on a C-width fretted Precision neck but gigged and recorded on a defretted A-width Jazz. OK, he had big hands so some of the points re the limitations of fretless above are negated, but even so he had a point. Once you've played fretless a while frets genuinely get in the way. Frets also colour the tone to a huge degree, something that took me a long time to realise. This colouration isn't as easy to get rid of as you'd think, that is, it's not easy to change as the colour of a fretless note.

As a bassist I have been constantly troubled by the fact that at auditions, rehearsals and gigs, people constantly rave about my fretless playing, not because it's good, but because it's different and, I think, because they think it's worthy of praise in itself. By that I mean "wow, that guy's playing fretless, he must be really good". I'm not. As long as you don't have very small hands or very poor hearing, it's as easy to learn fretless as it is fretted. The main problem, as has been mentioned on BC many times, is that people believe that fretless is a solo, mwah, vibrato, and slide sound. I blew a couple of guys away once by playing Rhythm Stick on my fretless Jazz. They simply would not believe that it's easier to play on a fretless! If I play it fretted I'm in Fret Buzz City, fretless, sounds fine.

My only real concern with fretless playing is in recording. I was at the receiving end of a humbling lesson last year when what I thought was great playing turned out to be consistently out of tune on playback. As we were recording live this was a real problem. I have a generally good ear but it appears I was shifting pitch with the vocalist, and consequently we we became a rather off-key positive feedback loop. Also in live situations with poor monitoring or lighting (or both), fretless can be a nightmare, even for very good players. If you don't believe me, listen to some of Jaco's horribly out of tune recordings (OK, not just the monitors and the lighting I know).

My view on fretless playing if asked, and I get asked a lot at gigs, is quite simply that the only difference is a few strips of metal. In the same way that you know a fretted bass is out of tune, you know a fretless is out of tune. The great thing about the fretless is that you can do something about it in real time. If you're the guy who can never tell his bass is out of tune, don't buy a fretless, If not, get one and treat playting it just the same as your fretted and I'm sure you'll find it a very satisfying experience.

The compromise between treating it a s anormal bass and being a 'fretless player' is this: negotiate one moment per gig when it's obvious you're playing fretless, and you will get chicks talking to you all night and fellow musicians buying you beers!

C