advantages of fretless basses?

[51m0n]

Thats a really good post Beedster!

I had always considered myself not up to fretless, not having the required ears etc.

Having got one recently I've discovered that my concern was largely unjustified, yes I make mistakes, yes my intonation is not perfect, but I use it as a tool for recording (although I may use it for a couple of tracks in an upcoming gig) so I get to fix my flubs until I'm really happy.

If I concentrated on fretless I think I could really quickly switch over full time if I wanted to, far easier than moving to a five string has been, YMMV of course !

[spacecowboy]

When i first got my Fretless and a couple of months back before i'd even recieved it i had booked it in for a fret dress at the Bass Gallery in London, but after just 1 practice with the Fretless i was sold on the sound and feel and the next day sacked off the appointment. I tend to use my fretless for my more funky numbers, i don't make it sound like an upright, i don't slide around on it, use vibratos, but what i do find is that the flatwounds and fretless neck give the bass a unique percussive ness which is great for my muted staccato style on some numbers think Me'Shell Ndegeocello style finger grooves, i do however adopt a different fretting position which has helped my hand technique on the fretted bass no end! You play more parallel and finger technique comes under real scrutiny as you have to push down on to the neck with more force to complete solid notes and jump between the notes with more aim and elegance i suppose, its a real technique refinement. There are a million merits for both instruments and i love playing them both, i'm going to do a comparrison between my two basses soon as people have asked me to give them sound clips so i can post them up on here and you can hear the subtle yet distinctly unique differences between the two.

Edited March 3, 2010 by spacecowboy

[mcgraham]

I played fretless exclusively for a year or two, and dabbled in it after that. Since getting my new fretless W&T, I've remembered why I love fretless. Like an earlier poster said, you can do anything on fretless that you can on fretted. Like another poster said, the sound is/can be made different to a fretted and can be closer to an upright sound, but you can also play it and make it sound like a fretted (to some extent). So those are practical reasons I love fretless.

On a more emotional/personal level, I love the challenge and reward of playing fretless. The tone is different to fretted and beautiful. Certainly more expressive but not necessarily needing vibrato or slides to achieve that. Yes it carries the risk of a note being out, but that demands dedication devotion and practice and love for the instrument to minimise/overcome that. And as you progress, the emotional reward (for me) is just wonderful. Playing in the 2nd (and in my case the 3rd) octave of the fingerboard and playing what you're hearing in your head is more rewarding (for me) when done on a fretless than on a fretted, both for sonic reasons (i.e. the tone) and the personal reasons.

[sshorepunk]

I'm with the Beedster on this
I play fretted 90% of the time with my band, one track is fretless and it really changes the feel of the track, but I have had occasion where it's been very difficult to play due to the on stage sound. I really do prefer to have my own rig, if we get booked for a gig and we are told we are using someone elses back line (doesn't happen very often, I am one of those pissed off bassists whose always getting asked for the use of his rig) I will consider, depending on what I'm hearing, playing the track on fretted!
I'm going to be recording the track on fretless soon, that should be intrersting!

I play lines BTW, just dont spend enough time practising to give myself the confidence to move to a plain fretboard, but I'm happy with what I got and what I do, regardless of what the "Don't do lines" brigade say :-)

Tony

[Doddy]

[quote name='mike13' post='762488' date='Mar 3 2010, 03:33 AM']Fretless are great for an upright sound,but easier to carry and play,I use a Bass Collection ebony board and Alembic activator eletronics[/quote]

I'm going to disagree with this. No fretless I've ever played or heard sounds like an upright.
They are two very different instruments,tonally.

[casapete]

Advantages of fretless?
Nobody asks to borrow your bass at jam nights..............

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='casapete' post='762963' date='Mar 3 2010, 02:05 PM']Advantages of fretless?
Nobody asks to borrow your bass at jam nights..............[/quote]
Or if they do, chances are they're a well-rehearsed player who would treat it with respect.

[51m0n]

[quote name='sshorepunk' post='762922' date='Mar 3 2010, 01:31 PM'][b]I play lines BTW, just dont spend enough time practising to give myself the confidence to move to a plain fretboard, but I'm happy with what I got and what I do, regardless of what the "Don't do lines" brigade say :-)[/b]

Tony[/quote]

I just like pointing out to them that Jaco had lines on his bass (from where he ripped the frets out), and you dont hear too many people moaning about that

[Jerry_B]

Okay, I'll moan then. He was a lazy git

Sshorepunk - if I was you I'd brave the leap to an unlined fretless. It's not as hard as it may seem.

[sshorepunk]

[quote name='Jerry_B' post='763165' date='Mar 3 2010, 05:44 PM']Okay, I'll moan then. He was a lazy git

Sshorepunk - if I was you I'd brave the leap to an unlined fretless. It's not as hard as it may seem.[/quote]

I know, I've owned a few. but can't be arsed putting the extra effort into it right now, too much involved in writing, recording and all the other stuff that goes with a busy band, suits me sir and it sounds th same, maybe it dont look as cool, but who cares But thanks for the advice I may get a cheap unlined just to play with

Tony

Edited March 3, 2010 by sshorepunk

[littleal]

For me i just love the honky tone of a fretless bass with the bridge pickup solo'd, it's funky as hell. The one problem i have is constantly changing basses between songs if a more percussive tone is required, as slapping on a fretless doesent have the attack of a fretted.
My solution:
Wal basses have this pick attack thing going on (pull up on the volume control to activate it) so i was able to play the fretless bass & if a more percussive tone was required just a quick pull on the vol & hey presto "instant frets almost"

Unfortunately i sold the wal many years ago but i have just ordered a new 6 string fretless from paul herman

[Marvin]

[quote name='Beedster' post='762796' date='Mar 3 2010, 11:55 AM']Agreed. Let's not forget that the whole 'fretless slide & vibrato/glissando' thing was partly a means of bassist holding their own in bands increasingly dominated by the left/bass hand of overly dominant keyboard players. Slap and fretless are as identified with 80's pop as, and because of, over-produced keyboards. There's a reason why the basses of the era were either very scooped for slap or very middy for fretless.

Jaco believed that it was easier to play fretless than fretted. He practiced on a C-width fretted Precision neck but gigged and recorded on a defretted A-width Jazz. OK, he had big hands so some of the points re the limitations of fretless above are negated, but even so he had a point. Once you've played fretless a while frets genuinely get in the way. Frets also colour the tone to a huge degree, something that took me a long time to realise. This colouration isn't as easy to get rid of as you'd think, that is, it's not easy to change as the colour of a fretless note.

As a bassist I have been constantly troubled by the fact that at auditions, rehearsals and gigs, people constantly rave about my fretless playing, not because it's good, but because it's different and, I think, because they think it's worthy of praise in itself. By that I mean "wow, that guy's playing fretless, he must be really good". I'm not. As long as you don't have very small hands or very poor hearing, it's as easy to learn fretless as it is fretted. The main problem, as has been mentioned on BC many times, is that people believe that fretless is a solo, mwah, vibrato, and slide sound. I blew a couple of guys away once by playing Rhythm Stick on my fretless Jazz. They simply would not believe that it's easier to play on a fretless! If I play it fretted I'm in Fret Buzz City, fretless, sounds fine.

My only real concern with fretless playing is in recording. I was at the receiving end of a humbling lesson last year when what I thought was great playing turned out to be consistently out of tune on playback. As we were recording live this was a real problem. I have a generally good ear but it appears I was shifting pitch with the vocalist, and consequently we we became a rather off-key positive feedback loop. Also in live situations with poor monitoring or lighting (or both), fretless can be a nightmare, even for very good players. If you don't believe me, listen to some of Jaco's horribly out of tune recordings (OK, not just the monitors and the lighting I know).

My view on fretless playing if asked, and I get asked a lot at gigs, is quite simply that the only difference is a few strips of metal. In the same way that you know a fretted bass is out of tune, you know a fretless is out of tune. The great thing about the fretless is that you can do something about it in real time. If you're the guy who can never tell his bass is out of tune, don't buy a fretless, If not, get one and treat playting it just the same as your fretted and I'm sure you'll find it a very satisfying experience.

The compromise between treating it a s anormal bass and being a 'fretless player' is this: negotiate one moment per gig when it's obvious you're playing fretless, and you will get chicks talking to you all night and fellow musicians buying you beers!

C[/quote]

A great post, takes those myths.

[EricTile]

The sound is the advantage!

[dumelow]

[Lfalex v1.1]

Further listening;

"Babooshka" by Kate Bush.
Shut out the histrionics and bluster. Just listen to John Giblin go...
It must be good because non-bass players don't seem to get it! (unfortunately!)

And if you want a super-low action, fretless will accomodate it (although they're not at their best set TOO low, as the notes can choke a bit)

[iconic]

this is going to sound like a real newbie light bulb moment but I never knew you could slap with a fretless bass.....I'm sure some guy told me that in Wales last year..... "it's the action of the strings on the frets that makes for that slap sound"...or I dreamt it :blush:

[b]Note To Self...don't listen to drunk bass playing Welshmen who use picks[/b]

I'll get my coat.....

Edited March 4, 2010 by iconic

[iconic]

fretless have my attention now...do they all sound like this VMJ fretless, or this going thru oodles of witchcraft boxes?

....obviously a great player but it's the spanky tone that I find wonderful....

[wateroftyne]

Also, if you don't want to be Jaco or Pino... a solo'd P pickup on a fretless is a beautiful thing, IMO.

[url="http://www.jollybeggars.co.uk/stuff/motrr.mp3"]Here's a recording of mine[/url]. (folk music warning)

[purpleblob]

"advantages of fretless basses?"

Expressiveness

disadvantages of fretless basses? (to give a balanced opinion )

Intonation

Edited March 4, 2010 by purpleblob

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='iconic' post='763622' date='Mar 4 2010, 08:04 AM']fretless have my attention now...do they all sound like this VMJ fretless, or this going thru oodles of witchcraft boxes?[/quote]
That's pretty much what mine sounded like. Cracking bass.

[Dom in Dorset]

If you have to ask, you'll never know.

[valere24]

Agree. I find flatwound strings and a palm mute technique are better "tools" to get an upright sound.

[quote name='Doddy' post='762946' date='Mar 3 2010, 01:54 PM']I'm going to disagree with this. No fretless I've ever played or heard sounds like an upright.
They are two very different instruments,tonally.[/quote]

[51m0n]

[quote name='iconic' post='763622' date='Mar 4 2010, 08:04 AM']fretless have my attention now...do they all sound like this VMJ fretless, or this going thru oodles of witchcraft boxes?

....obviously a great player but it's the spanky tone that I find wonderful....

[/quote]

Thats about right - he might have a tiny tiny hint of a chorus on there (tricky to tell with it being an mp3), he's eq'ed it and maybe even compressed it too.

The core tone on there is all about the VMJ, they a re just superb for the money IMO...

Here's a snip of mine (having gone through a wide variety of wonderful boxes to make it sound as spanky as poss!):-

[url="http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~snaish/music/Tall_Trees_edit.mp3"]Tall Trees[/url]

Edited March 4, 2010 by 51m0n

[iconic]

[quote name='51m0n' post='763697' date='Mar 4 2010, 09:42 AM']Thats about right - he might have a tiny tiny hint of a chorus on there (tricky to tell with it being an mp3), he's eq'ed it and maybe even compressed it too.

The core tone on there is all about the VMJ, they a re just superb for the money IMO...

Here's a snip of mine (having gone through a wide variety of wonderful boxes to make it sound as spanky as poss!):-

[url="http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~snaish/music/Tall_Trees_edit.mp3"]Tall Trees[/url][/quote]


sweet....oooh no I think I fancy one...must resist...must resist...must resist.....no need for 4 basses...seem great value at £223.99 new...be rude not too, but I only just got my BB
last week!
[url="http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product.asp?id=5402"]http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product.asp?id=5402[/url]

[size=1]just how much is kidney worth on Fleabay in this credit crunch climate???[/size]

Edited March 4, 2010 by iconic

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='iconic' post='763622' date='Mar 4 2010, 08:04 AM']....obviously a great player but it's the spanky tone that I find wonderful....[/quote]
To further qualify my previous reply... there are a world of variables that affect the spankiness of fretless tone, IME. That video's super-spanky because of the fact he's playing (what sounds like) roundwounds on a very hard (ebonol) board through the bridge pickup on a Jazz, played [i]over[/i] the bridge pickup. If you swap all those factors to their polar opposites... La Bella flats on rosewood through a Precision pickup, played over the neck... it's a whole different tonal world.

I sit somewhere in the middle (Status half-wounds on ebony on a Music Man), hoping to achieve both ends of the spectrum to a certain extent.

EDIT: ...bridge not neck, bridge not neck, bridge not neck...

Edited March 4, 2010 by BottomEndian