wateroftyne Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 [url="http://www.baeramps.com"]Dunno if they'll be available in the UK, but they look interesting...[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanbass1 Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 It would be interesting to try one out but weighing in at 25lbs I don't think I would go there personally. Ever since I got my Eden WT400 plus back in '99 the days of lugging the heavy amps around has gone for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 7, 2010 Author Share Posted March 7, 2010 [quote name='alanbass1' post='766658' date='Mar 7 2010, 08:16 AM']It would be interesting to try one out but weighing in at 25lbs I don't think I would go there personally. Ever since I got my Eden WT400 plus back in '99 the days of lugging the heavy amps around has gone for me.[/quote] Y'know, I think my MPulse weighs around that. The Boschma rack has such a comfortable handle I've never really thought of it as heavy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Not sure I have come across these before. I don't think 25lbs is too bad for a valve/hybrid amp and the cabs look a good weight. I am looking for a 500watt plus amp for a decent weight. I'd consider Thunderfunk, SWR, Aguilar AG so maybe can add this for more info required. I do prefer a valve pre at this point in the search process, but might waive that when I try one in earnest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Baer Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1267947325' post='766632'] [url="http://www.baeramps.com"]Dunno if they'll be available in the UK, but they look interesting...[/url] [/quote] Bass Direct now has a few ML112's in stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamfist Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Terrible lust at chez-Hamfist for a Bare ML112 at the moment. must have one. must ......... have ...... one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Interesting that the ML is neo loaded yet is only a couple of lb lighter than my similar sized/spec DB112. Folks often get hung up on the weight saving of neo... not really 'that' much difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 [quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1361388244' post='1985235'] Interesting that the ML is neo loaded yet is only a couple of lb lighter than my similar sized/spec DB112. Folks often get hung up on the weight saving of neo... not really 'that' much difference! [/quote]That depends on the ceramic driver it's being compared to. The Baer OEM 3012 weighs in at 7.6 pounds. A comparable ceramic driver is at least 10 pounds heavier than that. If it isn't, it's not comparable to the 3012. The Aggie driver is no 3012; it would take at least two of them to match its output. And the ML112 uses a premium midrange driver, which is probably twice the weight of the Aggie tweeter, and it's worth every ounce. I know, because I measured one of Roger's cabs for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkin Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1361394640' post='1985407'] The Aggie driver is no 3012; it would take at least two of them to match its output. [/quote] Sorry if I'm being thick, but...2 of what to match the output of what ? I think you're saying you need 2 of the Aggie drivers to match the output of the 3012, but if you could clarify...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Just out of interest, was it the ML112 you measured, Bill? And did it measure the same as the one Tom Bowlus tested in Bass Gear? (I certainly hope not.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 [quote name='barkin' timestamp='1361396188' post='1985448'] Sorry if I'm being thick, but...2 of what to match the output of what ? I think you're saying you need 2 of the Aggie drivers to match the output of the 3012, but if you could clarify...? [/quote] The main driver in the ML cabs is a high excursion pa quality driver, it offers a far greater level of performance compared to a standard bass driver. A single ML112 will equal if not out perform a good 210. I can cover gigs with a single ML112 that would not have been possible with a single Berg 112. I am really looking forward to Roger sending the Valkyrie over, thought my GAS was cured, guess not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 [quote name='stevie' timestamp='1361396538' post='1985460'] Just out of interest, was it the ML112 you measured, Bill? And did it measure the same as the one Tom Bowlus tested in Bass Gear? (I certainly hope not.) [/quote]I don't know if it was the same one that Bowlus tested, but I do know that BG does not know how to test speakers, so any results they show should be ignored. The cab was an ML112 demo making it's rounds though the eastern US, and as a favor to Roger I measured it. If I could find fault I'd say so, but I didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 That's a bit harsh. You can nit pick, but I've always found Tom's measurements to be the most useful part of his reviews. You learn an awful lot more from those than from the subjective reviews, where he is clearly reluctant to be too critical. As he's the only one publishing measurements of bass gear, I think he deserves a pat on the back - also for the internal photos of the gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 [quote name='stevie' timestamp='1361459243' post='1986002'] That's a bit harsh. You can nit pick, but I've always found Tom's measurements to be the most useful part of his reviews. [/quote]And I've found them the most worthless part of his reviews, as they do not adhere to any measurement standard. From the very first issue they admitted that they were doing their measurements their own way, because they didn't know how to do them the right way. That makes them as useful as mammary glands on a male bovine. I'll stick with half-space anechoic, as that's how all the rest of the audio world does it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1361465147' post='1986130'] And I've found them the most worthless part of his reviews, as they do not adhere to any measurement standard. From the very first issue they admitted that they were doing their measurements their own way, because they didn't know how to do them the right way. That makes them as useful as mammary glands on a male bovine. I'll stick with half-space anechoic, as that's how all the rest of the audio world does it. [/quote] They certainly didn't do TC Electronic any favours! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 [quote name='Iana' timestamp='1361479054' post='1986476'] They certainly didn't do TC Electronic any favours! [/quote]That being the power measurement of the amp? I believe that was accurate. It's their speaker response measurements that are essentially worthless, as there's no way to compare them to every source that measures them correctly. If you're going to play the game you have to follow the established rules, you can't just make up your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Baer Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) [quote name='stevie' timestamp='1361396538' post='1985460'] Just out of interest, was it the ML112 you measured, Bill? And did it measure the same as the one Tom Bowlus tested in Bass Gear? (I certainly hope not.) [/quote] The cab BGM measured was not the same as the one Bill tested, but it had essentially the same specs. The problem with published graphs is that you need the technical knowledge to interpret the charts based on the testing methods used, and as Bill has pointed out, not everyone is testing by the same methods. In other words, frequency response curves are only meaningful when everyone is testing using the same methods, so you have some reference to go by. Bill's test of the cab showed a more extended low end response as well as less output in the top end. That said, the cabs tested were Tom's personal cabs, so he likes them enough to own a pair. Shortly after writing the review on the cabs, Alan (Chef onTalkBass) purchased a pair for his own use. The cabs were designed to have a lot of focus and articulation in a live setting. They don't have a typical bass cab response, because these cabs were not designed to sound like a typical bass cabinet. They have their own character going on, but do respond to changes in EQ and technique very well. You really have to hear one in person to tell if that is right for you, or not. Bass Direct usually tries to keep some in stock, so it is possible to try them out in person. Edited February 22, 2013 by R Baer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomBass Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 From the horse's mouth, indeed. Always a welcome thing here, especially such a well considered reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Roger, you forgot to mention the Armadillo's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1361465147' post='1986130'] And I've found them the most worthless part of his reviews, as they do not adhere to any measurement standard. [/quote] Because they do not adhere to a measurement standard doesn't make them worthless. Sure, it would be nice if Tom were to get his act together and publish more consistent measurements, but I'm pleased that he's doing them at all, because nobody else is. And they are useful. For example, you can see from the measurements of a Trace Elliot cab in this month's issue that they have wired the tweeter the wrong way round. That's quite interesting, especially for people who have bought that cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 If tests are supposedly too technical for most to comphrend, translate, analyse or relate to something meaniful, then they are just as worthless in some regard. At the end of the day, you aren't going to buy something marvelously spec'd but sounds horrible to your ears... you just wouldn't, surely... For me, there is enough about the Baer cabs to be worth a demo...and then we would go from there...even though I don't need any more cabs. I like the design look and the spec sounds good...so the next step would be to hear them in my context. Subjective views are just as valid as the technical review, IMO.. they all build a pciture. but they don't make you buy them unheard or unseen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1361542631' post='1987248'] If tests are supposedly too technical for most to comphrend, translate, analyse or relate to something meaniful, then they are just as worthless in some regard. At the end of the day, you aren't going to buy something marvelously spec'd but sounds horrible to your ears... you just wouldn't, surely... For me, there is enough about the Baer cabs to be worth a demo...and then we would go from there...even though I don't need any more cabs. I like the design look and the spec sounds good...so the next step would be to hear them in my context. Subjective views are just as valid as the technical review, IMO.. they all build a pciture. but they don't make you buy them unheard or unseen. [/quote] +1 but I'm so far North I have NO chance of getting to hear these cabs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) [quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1361542748' post='1987251'] ....+1 but I'm so far North I have NO chance of getting to hear these cabs!.... [/quote] [size=4]That's why the views and reviews by other players are so helpful, no matter what we are told to the contrary.[/size] Edited February 22, 2013 by chris_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1361542631' post='1987248'] Subjective views are just as valid as the technical review, IMO.. they all build a pciture. but they don't make you buy them unheard or unseen. [/quote] Nothing against subjective opinions when they are unbiased and from someone who knows what they're talking about, but measurements can explain much of what you are hearing that you can't necessarily put your finger on. They can also highlight problems, if you know how to interpret them. As you say, the big picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1361542631' post='1987248'] If tests are supposedly too technical for most to comphrend, translate, analyse or relate to something meaniful, then they are just as worthless in some regard. [/quote]That's the party line spouted by those members of the industry who don't provide test results. It's thinly vieled subterfuge to obfuscate the real reason why they won't provide valid test results conducted with accepted methodology: They don't want you to see them. That doesn't mean one should go by tests alone; a mix of both subjective and objective data is far preferable to only the one or the other. If the consumer doesn't care about test results that's his right. But the consumer should at least have access to objective data, and not be told in so many words [i]"we won't give it to you because you're too stupid to understand it". [/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.