Re-finishing a Jazz body

[Painless]

I have a mexican fretless fender jazz bass that I've made a few mods to, I'm pretty comfortable with doing that kind of thing (pickups, bridges, nuts, electrics) but the final touch I want to add is something I'm very scared to approach without the right advice first as it's all fairly new to me. Haven't worked with wood since I was in school.

The body has, as far as I can tell, the original fender finish in light blue with what I believe to be a polyeurathane finish. What I would really love to do, not sure if it's possible though, is to remove the paint and have a natural stained wood finish instead, complete with wood grain etc.

And so, to my questions:

1) Has anyone ever done this to a Jazz? How was your experience?

2) Is the wood going to be up to the kind of finish I would like or will it more than likely just end up looking crappy?

3) What's the best method of stripping off the poly and paint?

4) What sort of wood stain and protective coating (polyeurathane again?) should I use?

5) Is there anything I haven't considered?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[neepheid]

You might find this interesting from the build forum:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=17"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=17[/url]

[BOD2]

From previous threads on the old BW, it seems the only practical method of removing a poly finish is to sand it down. A day or two of hard work but it does seem to work. Start with course sandpaper to remove all the finish, taking care not to "recontour" the body. To get a good finish you really need to spend a lot of time with fine sandpaper smoothing down the wood and getting any marks outs.

Try doing a Google search for refinishing/stripping a guitar. There are a few "projects" online that should give you an idea of what is involved. You should get some finishing suggestions from that too.

An oiled/waxed finish is much easier to achieve for a DIY-er but this will require periodic maintenance.

As to what's underneath the paint ... there's no way of knowing until you strip it down. It's almost certain that he body will be made up of two, if not more, pieces of wood joined along the length of the body. The grain pattern could be anything.

[Painless]

Thanks for the advice and link pointers, everyone seems to favour the sandpaper approach versus some kind of paint / finish stripper. I think I'm going to put this project aside for a while, at least until I've done a lot more research and definately until I have more free time!

Thanks again.

[BOD2]

I think the problem with paint stripper is that it doesn't really work. A "poly" finish is very tough and most paint strippers struggle to remove it. Then it's also layered so you get one layer off and have to do the same fo rthe next layer...and so on. Then you end up having to sand it down to finish off anyway.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='BOD2' post='8174' date='May 28 2007, 12:07 PM']I think the problem with paint stripper is that it doesn't really work. A "poly" finish is very tough and most paint strippers struggle to remove it. Then it's also layered so you get one layer off and have to do the same fo rthe next layer...and so on. Then you end up having to sand it down to finish off anyway.[/quote]
You may be sadly disappointed if you sand the finish off to find that underneath the body is junk wood, quite likely glued up from smaller pieces. Leo Fender initiated the practice of using a natural finish on the best wood, sunburst on the middling and paint on the worst, no reason to think that's changed.

[Kiwi]

I don't know if it applied to MIM Fenders but certainly the later model Squiers had plywood bodies. If you hold the bass body up to the light and look at the reflections off the painted surface in the waist chamfer, you will be able to see faint sets of alternating parallel indentations. Don't even waste your time refinishing that kind of body, get another from somewhere like Brandolini or off Ebay.

[Muppet]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='14940' date='Jun 10 2007, 08:50 AM']I don't know if it applied to MIM Fenders but certainly the later model Squiers had plywood bodies. If you hold the bass body up to the light and look at the reflections off the painted surface in the waist chamfer, you will be able to see faint sets of alternating parallel indentations. Don't even waste your time refinishing that kind of body, get another from somewhere like Brandolini or off Ebay.[/quote]


I would hope not for MIMs. I had an earlier Squier body (from Nash I think) that I stripped down and it was a lovely piece (well two well matched pieces) of wood underneath, that I oiled and waxed and it was lovely.

[Painless]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='14940' date='Jun 10 2007, 03:50 AM']I don't know if it applied to MIM Fenders but certainly the later model Squiers had plywood bodies. If you hold the be[Myleen Kl[Myleen Klass]] body up to the light and look at the reflections off the painted surface in the waist chamfer, you will be able to see faint sets of alternating parallel indentations. Don't even waste your time refinishing that kind of body, get another from somewhere like Brandolini or off Ebay.[/quote]

[quote name='Muppet' post='14996' date='Jun 10 2007, 06:36 AM']I would hope not for MIMs. I had an earlier Squier body (from Nash I think) that I stripped down and it was a lovely piece (well two well matched pieces) of wood underneath, that I oiled and waxed and it was lovely.[/quote]

I think I'm definately going to forget about this project for quite some time, I've already done a fair amount of work on this fretless jazz and still need to get it right in the action department before I go any further with cosmetics. I'm happy with the sound, but am still having issues with the action in the first couple of frets, it's way too much work fretting the first couple of positions compared to the rest of the fingerboard. Either the new graphtec nut needs to be sanded down even more or some more aggressive shimming is needed.

Thanks for everyones input, it's greatly appreciated.

Russ.

Edited June 11, 2007 by Painless

[BOD2]

[quote name='Painless' post='15858' date='Jun 11 2007, 08:15 PM']I'm happy with the sound, but am still having issues with the action in the first couple of frets, it's way too much work fretting the first couple of positions compared to the rest of the fingerboard. Either the new graphtec nut needs to be sanded down even more or some more aggressive shimming is needed.[/quote]

If the problem is confined to the nut end of the neck then that suggests that the nut slots might be too high. Shimming the neck has more effect on the bridge end of the guitar and is usually done to allow full adjustment of the bridge saddles.

You have two options. If the nut is not glued in then you could remove it and carefully sand down the underside of the nut so that the whole nut (nothing to do with Cadbury's ) sits lower in the slot. If the nut cannot easily be removed then you'll need to deepen the slots in the nut to allow the strings to sit deeper. You'll need very thin files narrow enough to fit in the nut slots.

Either way, go carefully. If you remove too much material then the action will be too low and you'd then have to replace the nut and start all over again.

[Painless]

[quote name='BOD2' post='16136' date='Jun 12 2007, 06:53 AM']If the problem is confined to the nut end of the neck then that suggests that the nut slots might be too high. Shimming the neck has more effect on the bridge end of the guitar and is usually done to allow full adjustment of the bridge saddles.

You have two options. If the nut is not glued in then you could remove it and carefully sand down the underside of the nut so that the whole nut (nothing to do with Cadbury's ) sits lower in the slot. If the nut cannot easily be removed then you'll need to deepen the slots in the nut to allow the strings to sit deeper. You'll need very thin files narrow enough to fit in the nut slots.

Either way, go carefully. If you remove too much material then the action will be too low and you'd then have to replace the nut and start all over again.[/quote]

Mmmmm... Cadbury's!!! Wish I could get that here

The nut is a brand new graphtec that I installed a month or two ago, it's definately the string height at the nut that is the problem like you stated, it isn't glued in so will be no problem removing it again. At first, I went the shimming route as I'd also installed a BadassII (doing both mods at the same time was probably a mistake) and wanted to see how much, if any, I could improve things this way. The original nut provided a great light action in the first few frets, but had other problems (the strings regularly popped out of it whilst playing plus the A string buzzed horribly) hence I replaced it with the graphtec. The original nut was so low that the strings were literally coming out of the nut and sitting within a millimetre of the fingerboard. On the headstock side of the old nut, the strings had actually worn grooves in the end of the fingerboard. I've already removed the new nut once and lowered it some, which helped a little, but the first few frets are still way too taught for fingering (omg, that doesn't sound good, does it?) than I would like. I'm beginning to wonder if the original nut height is what I need to get back down to with the new nut, it will give the kind of action I want, I just don't like what it was doing to the fingerboard.

This is the first fretless I've ever owned or worked on, so I'm sure there are different requirements in terms of string height. I understand that the absence of frets is naturally going to require a couple of millimetres lower string height for the same action as a fretted version, I'm just unsure as to if it should be to the extremes that this fretless J had when I aquired it.

Bit of a dilemma really

Russ.

Edited June 12, 2007 by Painless