Finger problems

[Geejay]

Hi All,
Three or four weeks ago, about an hour and a half into our usual two hour rehasal my left forearm cramped up, I got pains in my left had and it too cramped up. I last had this when I first started playing with another band about ten years ago and was very nervous and tense. This time I had problems sleeping that night due to the throbbing and tingling pain in the ends of my first and second fingers on my left hand (fretting hand).
I thought it would happily go away but a couple of days later the numbness was still there. My wife cheerfully said it sounded like what a colleague of her suffers from Carpel Tunnel Syndrome. Next day I was round at the doctors having all sorts of pins dragged across my fingers and palm of both hands. The doc said it was not the dreaded CTS but I had damaged the nerves in the ends of my fingers and would have to stop playing and allow them to fully recover.
So no band now for four weeks, fingers getting better and I can play a few tunes without problem. Tried my acoustic guitar today for a change and ouch! End of finger problems back.
Has anyone had similar problems with nerves in the fretting hand fingers? I'm getting bored not playing but I don't want to cause permanent damage. Any thoughts or advice gratefully received.

Geejay

[The Burpster]

A general cause of cramp (I occasionally get loads of it) is that you are not taking in enough Potassium (yes I know that cramp is Lactic acid build in your muscles, hwoever potassium prevents this build up becoming painful somehow....It was explained to me by a physio some time ago but I have forgot the specifics!) . You can get it more form eating Bannanas but no more than 2 a day as this can lead to heart difficulties.....

Best thing ( I've found now) is to take a Chelated Potassium tablet every day ( available from Holland and Barrat shops) you take in what you need and wee the rest out..... Complete relief from cramp......

If wont help the nerves but, if your not concerned about cramping up you may relax more..!

Works for me!

[Beneath It All]

[quote name='Geejay' post='84535' date='Nov 6 2007, 06:02 PM']
Hi All,
Three or four weeks ago, about an hour and a half into our usual two hour rehasal my left forearm cramped up, I got pains in my left had and it too cramped up. I last had this when I first started playing with another band about ten years ago and was very nervous and tense. This time I had problems sleeping that night due to the throbbing and tingling pain in the ends of my first and second fingers on my left hand (fretting hand).
I thought it would happily go away but a couple of days later the numbness was still there. My wife cheerfully said it sounded like what a colleague of her suffers from Carpel Tunnel Syndrome. Next day I was round at the doctors having all sorts of pins dragged across my fingers and palm of both hands. The doc said it was not the dreaded CTS but I had damaged the nerves in the ends of my fingers and would have to stop playing and allow them to fully recover.
So no band now for four weeks, fingers getting better and I can play a few tunes without problem. Tried my acoustic guitar today for a change and ouch! End of finger problems back.
Has anyone had similar problems with nerves in the fretting hand fingers? I'm getting bored not playing but I don't want to cause permanent damage. Any thoughts or advice gratefully received.

Geejay[/quote]Interested to know what bass you use - I sometimes have similar problems when I use small necks.[[smaller the neck,the more you need to cramp your hand to play]..Also do you do warm up exercises before playing;particularly important now It's getting cold..

[BassBunny]

[quote name='Geejay' post='84535' date='Nov 6 2007, 06:02 PM']
Hi All,
Three or four weeks ago, about an hour and a half into our usual two hour rehasal my left forearm cramped up, I got pains in my left had and it too cramped up. I last had this when I first started playing with another band about ten years ago and was very nervous and tense. This time I had problems sleeping that night due to the throbbing and tingling pain in the ends of my first and second fingers on my left hand (fretting hand).
I thought it would happily go away but a couple of days later the numbness was still there. My wife cheerfully said it sounded like what a colleague of her suffers from Carpel Tunnel Syndrome. Next day I was round at the doctors having all sorts of pins dragged across my fingers and palm of both hands. The doc said it was not the dreaded CTS but I had damaged the nerves in the ends of my fingers and would have to stop playing and allow them to fully recover.
So no band now for four weeks, fingers getting better and I can play a few tunes without problem. Tried my acoustic guitar today for a change and ouch! End of finger problems back.
Has anyone had similar problems with nerves in the fretting hand fingers? I'm getting bored not playing but I don't want to cause permanent damage. Any thoughts or advice gratefully received.

Geejay[/quote]
There was an article about "Aches and Pains" in July/Aug Bass guitar Magazine. Have scanned the part on CTS which gives some good advice.
[attachment=3355:CTS.jpg]
Cheers,
Stuart

[paul, the]

[quote name='hipbass' post='84628' date='Nov 6 2007, 09:50 PM']Interested to know what bass you use - I sometimes have similar problems when I use small necks.[[smaller the neck,the more you need to cramp your hand to play]..Also do you do warm up exercises before playing;particularly important now It's getting cold..[/quote]

A warm up and warm down would be very helpful regardless of the weather. Although I don't know how related it would be to the nerve endings.

I reckon a neck that fills the space but isn't too gig is the best compromise. I play a jazz neck and I felt the pains when I first started playing on it. It still feels a bit unnatural sometimes.

I like the potassium idea. Everyone should eat a banana a day anyway. There's enough in the world.

[Geejay]

Thanks for the suggestions. I shall certainly go back to eating more bananas. I had been wondering if my problems had been due to playing my guitar!, arching my fingers and causing problems on the ends or playing my fretless Status too much. It has a wider neck than my narrow Washburn Bantam.
It was probably a combination of all sorts but I'm resting and just playing a little now. I'm using my time to sort out some of the gadgets I've bought recently and also to try and improve my rhythm feel and reading of awkward scores. It has forced me to take time out from playing and so looking at the structure of the tunes is good and working gently through some new ones too. If it carries on I'll even manage to find time to do some transcribing so some good will certainly have come out of it.

[mybass]

Serious carpel T syndrome will hospitalise your hand for quite a while. Beware of that.
I go to see a really good "muscle n' bones" expert a couple of times a year. A really good osteopath type practitioner can do wonders, believe me!
But, you can start by always massaging the lower arms, hands and each finger for a few minutes before playing or practise. Don't over pressure it, its more like getting warmed up. "Kneed" the palms up into each finger.
I do this especially in winter when the old digits feel a bit cold at a gig. Also stretching the old body can help realign the back/neck/shoulders. Again, my osteo man will often go to another area to treat a problem than the one that I think is the problem, finding the cause rather than the sympton.

[gilmour]

I ruptured a tendon in my finger when I was at music college - that was really reallys sorry, coiudn't play at all, or even move my finger. I had to still go to music college and watch everyone else (and practice my reading). Worst thing was going to a sports injury masseur for it, everyone else was on crutches and with their arms in strings, and there was i to get my finger massaged... worked though

[Freuds_Cat]

Our Guitarist is a chippy and suffers carpel tunnel once or twice a year. For him its related to the use of a hammer rather than his guitar. Sucks a lot to watch him struggle with it.

That not being the problem then I would suggest both mineral supplements of Magnesium and Potassium (or bananas). I use the magnesium myself and probably eat enough bananas.
The Magnesium is great for muscular cramps, also drink more water, seems to make a difference.
One of my best mates is a Chiropractor/Herbal medicine specialist and recomended this to me a few years back.

Another interesting but digressive point is building up muscle tone in your hands fast to improve your chops.
Go to the health food shop and ask for some Branch Chain Amino Acid tablets or powder. If you need to build up your hand and finger strength quickly and you will be doing the work required (ie heavy practice, rehearsal or gigging) then take this stuff within 20 minutes of finishing playing with lots of water. It is a natural product and is produced in your body at a rate equell to your average level of activity. This is just a supplement but it does work. (also fantastic for frostbite....seriously!) I was involved in clinical trials of the physical benefits of BCCA's with a company called Musashi. There is not a professional sports person in Australia that wouldn't have used them, they are not anything to do with steroids or illegal drugs of any kind. They get used for everything from sports training to soft tissue injuries to speed up recovery and healing. I dont sell this stuff either.

[aryustailm]

Hi,

I've had a similar experience, though with my right hand. My fingers were getting a little cramped and the ends going numb, not just whilst playing.

I think there's some great advice here, but I can't help thinking it might be better to focus on more fundamental things. I have no idea about your level of playing, so I hope some of this doesn't seem insanely obvious!

You mentioned that this has happened before, from being nervous. Any ideas what caused it this time?

Regarding hands, do you do much other work with them? My problem, it turned out, was my elbow had been squashed between a flight case and a truck at work, causing slight damage to a nerve at the elbow. But the problems appeared primarily in my little finger Between spending time typing, bass playing and various other things, it was only when the doctor mentioned problems can occur from a knock to the elbow, that I realised what had caused it - it hadn't even crossed my mind previously.

Otherwise, something as simple as strap-length/bass height can dramatically affect the amount of tension in your left hand. If your bass is very low, your hand will have to curve under then over quite severly, often resulting in wrist/forearm tension. The position of your thumb can greatly affect the amount of effort your fingers have to do. A very low bass often results in a thumb that's all over the place: less of an anchor for the fingers, so they have to do much more work to compensate for lack of having a strong base to clamp down on.

A very high bass can cause weird and wonderful left hand elbow positioning, often causing tension in the upper arm. If your upper arm isn't relaxed, then anything lower down isn't going to be either: wrist, fingers, thumb etc.

Obviously there's a middle ground between the two extremes, and there are players who play well despite having less than optimum hand/bass positioning. But for something as simple as adjusting your strap, it's worth experimenting with hand/bass positioning.

I also think regarding the recommended supplements, they should be regarded as just that: supplements. branched chain amino acids are found in any rich source of protein (good quality meat, fish, eggs), vitamin b6 is found in similar sources as well as in nuts, amongst other things. All those nutrients are great, but just eating plenty of good nutrient rich food should come first, to help any healing. For some reason, people seem to remember to pop a pill in everyday more readily than they do to just eat some good food - I may be getting way off topic here!

If the problem is with your hands/bass playing, I think it would be worth concentrating on your habits regarding them, THEN worry about nutritional problems/supplements. Just my opinion. Hope it heals quickly

[Freuds_Cat]

[quote name='aryustailm' post='86367' date='Nov 10 2007, 11:55 AM']I also think regarding the recommended supplements, they should be regarded as just that: supplements. branched chain amino acids are found in any rich source of protein (good quality meat, fish, eggs), vitamin b6 is found in similar sources as well as in nuts, amongst other things. All those nutrients are great, but just eating plenty of good nutrient rich food should come first, to help any healing. For some reason, people seem to remember to pop a pill in everyday more readily than they do to just eat some good food - I may be getting way off topic here!

If the problem is with your hands/bass playing, I think it would be worth concentrating on your habits regarding them, THEN worry about nutritional problems/supplements. Just my opinion. Hope it heals quickly [/quote]


Yep, I dont disagree with your comments aryustailm. As I mentioned I was digressing somewhat from the main topic. Just thought I'd mention some of this stuff as I've had some experience with it and seen positive results.