Tips wanted on transcribing basslines

[lanark]

Okay - when learning a cover version, how do you go about isolating the bassline. Is it merely a case of turning up the low freqs on the stereogram and listening carefully or are there free / cheap programs I can use to isolate the bass to hear exactly what's being played?

Then, do I try to pick out the main basslines first and try to ignore the fancy fills that go on?

Basically, any tips would be much appreciated. I'd like to hear what your processes are when you haven't got dots or tabs to work with.

[Master blaster]

there is software out there. When i went to the mansons show last year there was a guy demoing a piece of software that cuts certain frequencys of a song, allowing you to isolate parts or jam allong to any mps file. But i dont remember what the software was called, sorry.

When im learning i just make sure im using a good sterio turned up a fair bit. Then i go about working out listening over and over until i get it. Sometimes it can take a couple of hours, other times it can take one or two listens.

[solo4652]

[quote name='lanark' post='771268' date='Mar 11 2010, 09:20 AM']Okay - when learning a cover version, how do you go about isolating the bassline. Is it merely a case of turning up the low freqs on the stereogram and listening carefully or are there free / cheap programs I can use to isolate the bass to hear exactly what's being played?

Then, do I try to pick out the main basslines first and try to ignore the fancy fills that go on?

Basically, any tips would be much appreciated. I'd like to hear what your processes are when you haven't got dots or tabs to work with.[/quote]

I've been doing loads of this recently. Be lazy - before you start writing a bassline fron scratch, check the web. My tips:

1. Important first step: [b]Check with the band which key they're playing the song in.[/b] Otherwise you'll learn it in the wrong key.
2. Look up the chords on one of the many chord sites. Just Google it - you'll find the chords. This will give you the basic structure. I use this website: [url="http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/"]http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/[/url] The neat thing about this site is you can simply ask it to transpose the chord structure if you need to change it.
3. Look up the bassline on the web. Again, just Google it: e.g. "Alright now bass" and you'll get lots of bass tabs. Look at more than 1 version - some will be hard, others easy. Don't forget you may have to change it if there's a need to change the key. Word of warning, I've looked at loads of these bass tabs recently and you need to bear in mind that they're not always correct. Trust your ears - if you play it and it sounds wrong, it probably is. I often end up with a mix of basslines from a number of different suggested tabs
4. Initially, jam along to Youtube. However, get back to your band to check whether they've made any structural changes to the song. I've recently joined a band that had changed the running order of verses, choruses and bridges for a number of songs. Original key - yes. Original song structure - no.
5. Again, you could search the net for a backing track version of the song. Google it: "Alright now backing track". This can throw up a stripped-down version of the song that makes the bassline much clearer. Recently I found a really useful backing-track of Sweet Child o' mine that made it so much clearer what was happening in the bassline

Hope this helps you to avoid the time-consuming errors I've made.

Steve

Edited March 11, 2010 by solo4652

[wulf]

Sketch out the big picture first before getting bogged down in the details. Anything that is really hard for you to hear is probably ignored by everyone else so you've got some leeway in playing something appropriate. I'd start with the overall structure, then begin adding in the easy notes. Once you put in distinctive riffs and hooks you are most of the way there and can make a decision on how much to sweat the details (which, frankly, may have been improvised and may just clutter things up if no-one else in your band has been that accurate).

Wulf

[neepheid]

I find the Tascam bass trainer (I have the MP3 one) indispensable for this kind of thing - slow down without changing pitch, pitch changing without affecting tempo, bass boost/enhance/cut, and of course portable - fling it in your gigbag and practice anywhere your bass is.

I know there's software out there that can do the job but I haven't found any to be as convenient (or reliable) as the hardware solution.

Sometimes when I'm finding it tough even with the Tascam I load the MP3 into Audacity then minus EQ the hell out of the higher frequencies.

[jakenewmanbass]

I really think it's worth investing the time in getting your ears tuned into what the bass is doing on a highly detailed level, the reasons for this in my view are 2 fold: firstly if you can hear it right you have a better chance of playing it right, and so you are more likely to play your part in context, secondly it will accustom your ears to listening to the whole sound. As the bass is so ingrained in most mixes learning to decipher it makes your hearing very sensitive and you will eventually (if you work at it) be highly aware of what every player is doing.
It's no surprise that the industry is full of bass player producers...

So therefore you, your ears, a music making machine and a bass is all you need

Just wanted to add purely for the purposes of information:
Transcribing means writing down what you are listening to, what you really mean is learning by ear.

Edited March 11, 2010 by jakesbass

[chris_b]

It's better that you learn to use your ears.

I do this: listen to the track to get feel/flow, then with the bass work out the key, the geography, ie Intro, Verse, Chorus, Middle 8 etc, the chords, any riffs or stops then write it all down.

If you can't hear the bass it's probably playing straight root notes so work out what chords are being played and take it from there.

Edited March 11, 2010 by chris_b

[essexbasscat]

As others have said, train your ears !!!!!!!!!!

The practice you put into this will be repaid to you throughout your life, as at sometime in the future, it could be sitting in a traffic jam, or anywhere, you will listen to something and be able to honestly say you know how it goes without even picking an instrument up.

And as Bilbo says:

LEARN TO READ MUSICLEARN TO READ MUSICLEARN TO READ MUSICLEARN TO READ MUSICLEARN TO READ MUSICLEARN TO READ MUSICLEARN TO READ MUSICLEARN TO READ MUSICLEARN TO READ MUSICLEARN TO READ MUSICLEARN TO READ MUSICLEARN TO READ MUSICLEARN TO READ MUSIC

T

[Bilbo]

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='771444' date='Mar 11 2010, 11:54 AM']And as Bilbo says:[/quote]

When did I say that?

Seriously, I do it another way. I now do all of my transcriptions on Sibelius and start with the notes in bar one and work on from there to the end bar. When I have finished writing out the notes the bass plays, I look for the chords. Sometimes I find them by playing along with a guitar, sometimes I have real book charts already but occasionally I go to the net. Sometimes I get a riff and stick with that, other times I look for every fill.

It it does depend on why you are transcribing. Sometimes I only want to study a short passage, a few bars. Sometimes, I just want to work out a head, or a solo, or a riff etc. The ones I publish here are generally (but not all) 'complete' end to end transcriptions in a effort to be helpful to people who want to study them but, at home, I transcribe as much or as little as I need to get what I want out of the exercise.

[Adrenochrome]

I use a bit of everything. One of the first things is to check the key and tuning of the original, and the key and tuning that the band want. Listen like mad to the original as often as you can. Have a glance at chord charts, try and develop your own shorthand for walks/runs etc and chart out the song for bass. Even have a quick look at the TAB but bear in mind that virtually no freely available TABS are 100% correct and many are worse than having no TAB at all.
I'll admit that for short notice dep gigs (eg 2 days or less), I've just grabbed whatever chords/tabs I could find and busked a version.
Jon

[Apex]

+1 to pretty much all of the above! The Tascam bass trainer is very good, but if you don't have one you can get quite close to it by using the EQ settings in windows media player! With a slider control that also makes it very easy to go back over a bit - several times if necessary!

I do try and get a tab or two, not to learn from, but to look at whilst listening. Hearing [u]and[/u] seeing speeds up the learning potential no end.

And one word of warning to ad to all those about agreeing the key and the structure in advance. Also agree the version, not only who, but which edition. Some bands (eg ABBA) recorded things more than once with different bass players and different lines. If the tab you have is not just wrong in one or two places but completely different from what your ears are hearing this is probably what's going on!

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='771509' date='Mar 11 2010, 12:42 PM']When did I say that?

Seriously, I do it another way. I now do all of my transcriptions on Sibelius and start with the notes in bar one and work on from there to the end bar. When I have finished writing out the notes the bass plays, I look for the chords. Sometimes I find them by playing along with a guitar, sometimes I have real book charts already but occasionally I go to the net. Sometimes I get a riff and stick with that, other times I look for every fill.

It it does depend on why you are transcribing. Sometimes I only want to study a short passage, a few bars. Sometimes, I just want to work out a head, or a solo, or a riff etc. The ones I publish here are generally (but not all) 'complete' end to end transcriptions in a effort to be helpful to people who want to study them but, at home, I transcribe as much or as little as I need to get what I want out of the exercise.[/quote]


Quite right Bilbo. I should have said:

LEARNTOREADMUSICLEARNTOREADMUSICLEARNTOREADMUSICLEARNTOREADMUSICLEARNTOREADMUSICLEARNTOREADMUSICLEAR
NTOREADMUSICLEARNTOREADMUSICLEARNTOREADMUSICLEARNTOREADMUSICLEARNTOREADMUSICLEARNTOREADMUSICLEARNTOR
E
ADMUSICLEARNTOREADMUSICLEARNTOREADMUSICLEARNTOREADMUSIC

Heartily agree with that

T

[Faithless]

In fact, lots and lots of basslines, played in low register, are hard to hear properly, so, what I found, that helps when transcribing, particularly, basslines, is hooking the recording one octave up ("Transcribe" has this function, wonderful kit), and then the bassline is put to the front - 10 times easier to transcribe.

[thunderbird13]

Its interesting that no one has mentioned doing any formal ear training to help work out basslines I tried for a year and didnt really get anything out of it .

To the OP the other bit of advice that I have is to play everything up an octive it makes it easier to hear when you play along to the original

[Doddy]

+ 1 to what Jake said.

It's all a matter of listening.You can use software to slow down and isolate parts,but it will
be better for your ear if you don't.

Also,you will be able to figure out the lines easier if you have any knowledge of theory,as
you will be able to predict,often quite accurately,where things are going-even fills. If you know
about intervals and common progressions it takes away a lot of guess work.Even fills are often
just pentatonic patterns-in rock at least.

In response to Solo4652, I feel that the tab hunting way of doing things is really pretty bad,and
I would never recommend it to anyone. Having said that,I would never recommend any form of
tab to anyone anyway.

[Conan]

The only time I have felt the need to refer to TAB is when I had to pick out a very fast, complex part that was very low in the mix. That offending piece was in Dream Theater's "Pull me Under". It was an absolute bugger of a passage (oo-er!) and TAB did help a bit, even though I'd never used it before.

For me, its all in the ears and the fingers. When you get good at it, you can pretty much work out a bass line even if you don't have your bass with you!

[thumperbob 2002]

Yeah I agree with most here. Listening and working out by ear simply from the record is the best way- it will be difficult at first but you will get there eventually. The problem is there are so many sites on the net that make it easier- youtube for one- that you can be in a band with no ear at all!

There will always be people that can do this easier than others- It took me years to be able to play by ear well- some bass players/guitarists can do it straight away. I can play along with a song and ( most songs ) know it by the time its ended ( in a fashion ).

Wish my reading skills were better though they seem to be progressing.

Bob

[Musicman69]

Yes, by ear is best.. the more you do it, the easier it gets.

Just another tip which hasnt been mentioned. For hearing the bassline a bit more clearly a good set of headphones really can help.
Try it.

[jamieariss]

Developing the ear to hear details is a daunting task and can take a long time to develop the skill.

Personally i would recomend a strict 15 minute practise session focusing on transribing every day rather than frustating urself every few days trying to do it for hours

[Matt303]

Seventh string software. A program called Transcribe. It plays most file formats or direct fron cd. It can be downloaded from the seventh string website it's not too expensive, certainly less than tascam unit. If you raise a tune by an octave and isolate the bass it jumps out of the track for most tunes. You can also slow down the track which is useful for play alongs

[BassBunny]

+1 for a Bass Trainer. Stick some phones on, slow the track down and you're away.
I have also taken to "tabbing" my findings using [url="http://www.tuxguitar.com.ar/"]Tuxguitar[/url]
It's free open source software and has a player built in so you can check your results.
I do it mainly because i am trying to learn to read and you can "tweak" the score it produces until it is right.
Hopefully I will bin it in the future but at the moment it is helping me learn to read and produce some accurate scores.

Edited March 12, 2010 by BassBunny