God Dammit Man!

[umcoo]

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sovtek-Electro-Harmonix-Big-Muff-PL_W0QQitemZ180479373427QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Guitar_Accessories?hash=item2a0568b073"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sovtek-Electro-Harmo...=item2a0568b073[/url]

[harvey1-8]

I can't believe I missed that. I usually search for 'Sovtek' on ebay once a week.

[joegarcia]

I bought it. The seller just refunded me as it was listed for her husband in error. Really annoying.

[Ou7shined]

Dude fight it. You won it fair and square.

[neepheid]

I have to agree - zero tolerance for sob stories - what it basically means is that the seller doesn't like the price it fetched. Stick to your guns!

[joegarcia]

Really? It's happened to me before when someone listed something for 99p BIN instead of 99p start and I let them refund me. This time it's much more annoying, she's already refunded me, can I really kick up a fuss? It doesn't seem very friendly.

[joegarcia]

The seller said they meant to list it at £135.99 instead of £35.99. She said if I make an offer near that she'll consider it. This doesn't really seem on. The seller sells a [i]lot[/i] of clothing and it seems the kinda situation where she'd value her (presently huge) positive feedback but I'd still feel pretty guilty every time I used the pedal... Don't know what to do.

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='joegarcia' post='771543' date='Mar 11 2010, 01:03 PM']The seller said they meant to list it at £135.99 instead of £35.99. She said if I make an offer near that she'll consider it. This doesn't really seem on. The seller sells a [i]lot[/i] of clothing and it seems the kinda situation where she'd value her (presently huge) positive feedback but I'd still feel pretty guilty every time I used the pedal... Don't know what to do.[/quote]


Chase it I have the same problem at the moment, eBay is a risk on both sides and if you don't review your listing properly then it's your own fault IMO.

[joegarcia]

Yea, sent a strongly worded email to the seller and am in talks with eBay now. I can't open a case straight away as they already refunded me. I'm guessing that the seller offered it to me afterwards for much more won't bode well for them.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='joegarcia' post='771543' date='Mar 11 2010, 01:03 PM']I'd still feel pretty guilty every time I used the pedal... Don't know what to do.[/quote]

I'll have it, you get enough muff as it is.

[umcoo]

I'd keep it, and rock the heck out of it. It's their own fault if they put up the wrong BIN. Or...I'll give you £40 for it if you can't stand the guilt?

[joegarcia]

Definitely gonna keep it if it works out my way.

[umcoo]

Hah, don't blame you! I already have one green sovtek...two would just be greedy.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='joegarcia' post='771576' date='Mar 11 2010, 01:32 PM']Yea, sent a strongly worded email to the seller and am in talks with eBay now. I can't open a case straight away as they already refunded me. I'm guessing that the seller offered it to me afterwards for much more won't bode well for them.[/quote]
Good, stick with it man. It's legally yours.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='joegarcia' post='771707' date='Mar 11 2010, 03:20 PM']Dear Stupid of West Sussex,

Thank you for the refund of the money I sent via paypal as consideration for my part of the contract we have entered. Please post the pedal I now own to The House of Bass, Bristol. If I could trouble you to put a not near the address on the outside reminding the postman that he is required to take this package to the address, rather than a note saying he couldn't deliver it, I would be grateful. Cheers. Joe "Fretless 4 eva" Garcia[/quote]

[joegarcia]

Not going well. The seller isn't cooperating at all and eBay sent me a useless reply simply saying I couldn't open a conflict as I haven't paid for the item (I did but was refunded) and I already have another case open (complete non response from another seller after sale). Argh, gonna try phoning eBay tomorrow. Is it worth me sending payment straight back? Hesitant as the refund won't clear into my account for ages.

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='joegarcia' post='772080' date='Mar 11 2010, 08:40 PM']Not going well. The seller isn't cooperating at all and eBay sent me a useless reply simply saying I couldn't open a conflict as I haven't paid for the item (I did but was refunded) and I already have another case open (complete non response from another seller after sale). Argh, gonna try phoning eBay tomorrow. Is it worth me sending payment straight back? Hesitant as the refund won't clear into my account for ages.[/quote]


I've just been told by eBay I need to wait till the 20th before I can open a dispute.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='joegarcia' post='772080' date='Mar 11 2010, 08:40 PM']Not going well. The seller isn't cooperating at all and eBay sent me a useless reply simply saying I couldn't open a conflict as I haven't paid for the item (I did but was refunded) and I already have another case open (complete non response from another seller after sale). Argh, gonna try phoning eBay tomorrow. Is it worth me sending payment straight back? Hesitant as the refund won't clear into my account for ages.[/quote]
Nah they'd only refund it you again.
Stick with your plan of calling ebay - it's much better than filling out forms.
Don't let anyone fob you off, your winning bid is a contract.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='joegarcia' post='772080' date='Mar 11 2010, 08:40 PM']Not going well. The seller isn't cooperating at all and eBay sent me a useless reply simply saying I couldn't open a conflict as I haven't paid for the item (I did but was refunded) and I already have another case open (complete non response from another seller after sale). Argh, gonna try phoning eBay tomorrow. Is it worth me sending payment straight back? Hesitant as the refund won't clear into my account for ages.[/quote]

I don't know why you keep sending the money off like that. Just like with the 99p mic, just request a total, rapidly see if they are going to go through with the deal.

Also, as they accept cheques, you can just mark it as payment sent.

[joegarcia]

Not doing any sneaky stuff as I'm totally in the right and want eBay to see it that way.
Latest reply from seller:

"Hi Joe:

I have explained the situation, apologised and refunded your payment. I have nothing further to say on the issue."

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='772104' date='Mar 11 2010, 09:07 PM']Nah they'd only refund it you again.
Stick with your plan of calling ebay - it's much better than filling out forms.
Don't let anyone fob you off, your winning bid is a contract.[/quote]

I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, but wouldn't it be possible to sue the seller for loss of bargain? Ebay pretends to be the law and highest court concerning sales on the site, but as far as I know (i.e. not that far) it isn't true. In the case of loss of bargain, you could sue for the difference between what you contracted to receive the item for, and the cost of buying elsewhere. This applies to the "bass guitar, has strings and excellent tune" listing too, I'd guess.

Surely it can't be the case that Ebay won't do anything if the funds have been refunded. As that would give every seller who wishes to back out of a contract an out.

However, in other contexts I've searched high and low for evidence that someone has actually sued someone for loss of bargain on ebay due to a non-performing seller. And I've never found even one case. Whether that's because the strategy won't work, or because in the end the wronged buyers just bend over and take it, I don't know.

Here's a non-ebay case of loss of bargain: [url="http://www.bitterwallet.com/bq-%E2%80%93-the-dishwashers-with-no-discretion/13425"]http://www.bitterwallet.com/bq-%E2%80%93-t...iscretion/13425[/url]

Edit: I'm not sure, but it could be that loss of bargain remedies only apply if the seller is a business, not a private individual. I'll continue digging.

Edited March 12, 2010 by Annoying Twit

[Ou7shined]

I'd never heard of the loss of bargain rule until now but you may be on to something there. Perhaps you should be a lawyer.

[color="#0000FF"]Loss Of Bargain Rule
Definition : Legal rule that damages paid to the aggrieved party in a [b]breach of contract [/b]case should be sufficient in amount to put that party in a position it would have been had the breach not occurred.[/color]


Looks like all you'd have to do is prove that the contract has been breached. In both of these cases the sellers are claiming an error had been made in the listings (allegedly m'lud) but surely even if you were to give them the benefit of the doubt, they both had plenty time to spot and correct the errors.

In joegarcia's case they have admitted that the error listed the pedal a 100 quid short of it value. By withholding the item they are effectively knowingly robbing him of £100.

[Annoying Twit]

If I was a lawyer, I could probably understand this in one reading:

[url="http://www.gillhams.com/articles/394.cfm"]http://www.gillhams.com/articles/394.cfm[/url]

It talks about loss of bargain, but doesn't mention a difference between private and commercial (including B2C) contracts. So, maybe loss of bargain can apply.

However, it's necessary to consider when a contract is formed. Many online companies say that a contract is formed upon dispatch of the goods. Which, if it holds water, means that they can send you a confirmation email, take money from you, and there's still no binding contract. However, since these goods were sold on ebay, the ebay T&Cs would apply, and I believe that they state that a bid is a binding contract. You can't (I believe, I'm no lawyer) have one side bound to a contract without the other side. (Attempts to do so would, I believe, come under the unfair terms in contracts banner). So, I'd guess that ebay's T&Cs for sellers would also state that the seller is bound when a bid is made, auction is completed, etc. In which case, that defence wouldn't hold water. Does anyone know the ebay T&Cs word for word?

For companies, I believe (I'm no lawyer), that if the price is an "obvious error", then they can argue that the buyer knew the price to be an error at the time of purchase, and this can be successful. Some time ago there was a shop selling a Fender Amp for £0.00, and several people "bought" one. The company replied later on that the amps were "out of stock". Nobody tried to argue the toss due to the obvious difficulty in convincing a judge that they honestly believed that to be a real price for an amp However, on ebay there is an expectation that there are bargains to be had, and I wouldn't think a second hand price of £35 is an "obvious error". But of course, it's a judge that would have to be convinced, not me.

Edited March 12, 2010 by Annoying Twit

[lemmywinks]

Similar thing happened to me a while ago, i bought a brand new Sony laptop (£700+) from a highy regarded seller for £55, only to be told it was a listing error and refunded.

EBay wouldn't do anything about it, all i could do was give them stinking feedback. It looked as though they'd done it a couple of times before too.

[joegarcia]

Yup, same story here. Ebay said that it is between me and the seller and as they had already refunded me there was nothing they could do. I said this completely undermined eBay's 'entering into a contract' rules and that it completely ruins the whole point of eBay if a seller can just decide they don't want to sell at the end of the auction.

What a massive waste of time.