DGCF

[ThomBassmonkey]

As a long time devotee to 6 string basses, I've never really had a problem hitting the low notes, every so often though, some b*****d guitarist decides "I'm gonna write a riff that involves hammering between the D string and loads of random frets as quickly as I can". In the past my main band that usually did that was all in drop D so I just tuned ADGCFA#, but the guitarist in the new band I'm in isn't adamant that he's going to be Adam Jones (I think that's the guitarist from Tool's name, near enough anyway) so I'm actually playing in several keys, including riffing in E.

Because I'm getting a few 4 strings in the near future I'm thinking about using one in DGCF to give me that open D without royally screwing with my shapes.

Anyone that does it as a permanent tuning and can recommend string gauges? I'm also tempted to tune one to ADGC so that I still have the lower string (for one song in particular) with the open D.

[EdwardHimself]

I tuned my 5 string bass to be ADGCF because i like having the 2 extra lower notes without the annoying shape changes like with drop tuning. Sadly that "hammering between the open low dring and random frets as quickly as i can" forms the basis of many modern metal songs these days. It can be quite irritating trying to do that but as for the tuning i think it is pretty good for the aformentioned reasons.

[hubrad]

Just run that middle line again.. getting A FEW 4 strings??

[ThomBassmonkey]

Yeah Edward, that's what I was thinking. I used to have my 6 string down a step for that exact reason, the band I'm in now doesn't do many riffs like that though and it has them in E and D so I can't just stay tuned down.

Hubrad, I have a Mockingbird, Fender P and Squier J on the cards for the next week. Having a serious gas attack, I've hated Fenders since I started playing bass but I've just got bored of the Ibanez neck profile so been trying out various things and I really love the J sound and feel and the J and P are local to me and pretty cheap so worth picking up, plus swapping my spare 6 string (that has never been used so isn't needed at all) for the mockingbird. Will probably end up swapping the P for a J 5 string, but I'm going to take it while the option's there. Just gonna have to see if I can budget for all of them yet. Very possible possibility though.

[thodrik]

Problem with drop d guitarists is that sometimes the riff is only playable using Drop D tuning, and as such trying to play the same riff using DGCF becomes a pain in the hole leading to even more annoying shapes!

Used to hate playing in drop D (every band seems to do it), but I've had to live with it for so long now that you just get used to the shapes and get on with it. I ended up just putting thick strings and changing just the bottom string to get lower notes so at times I'm tuned CADG, BADG, or on the one occassion, AADG. I don't need a 'tight' low B so I've never really felt that I needed a five string.

Saying that, going to DGCF isn't that severe, even a medium set 105-45 would probably do the job, though 110s or 115 would probably sound better, but I suppose it depends on the string tension you want.

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='thodrik' post='772084' date='Mar 11 2010, 08:45 PM']Problem with drop d guitarists is that sometimes the riff is only playable using Drop D tuning, and as such trying to play the same riff using DGCF becomes a pain in the hole leading to even more annoying shapes!

Used to hate playing in drop D (every band seems to do it), but I've had to live with it for so long now that you just get used to the shapes and get on with it. I ended up just putting thick strings and changing just the bottom string to get lower notes so at times I'm tuned CADG, BADG, or on the one occassion, AADG. I don't need a 'tight' low B so I've never really felt that I needed a five string.

Saying that, going to DGCF isn't that severe, even a medium set 105-45 would probably do the job, though 110s or 115 would probably sound better, but I suppose it depends on the string tension you want.[/quote]

I've not had that yet, drop D is for lazy 5th chords so guitarists don't tend to go so fast if they have to move back to a normal fingering position IME. Lazy buggers. I've never had problems with changing strings at all in 4th tunings while the guitarist's been in drop D.

Yeah, I used 110s I think last time but if I'm dedicating a bass to the tuning, I'd rather have the right gauge strings. Would 115s be enough or should I try and search out some 120s do you think?

[Eight]

If you went to standard C tuning instead, I'd say trying the fat four strings from a five string pack is worth a try. E.g. C=.130

But I'd be a bit uneasy about tightening that to a D.

I've had my Vampyre tuned in C-F-Bb-Eb (w/ Warwick Red Labels) since not long after I bought it and I'm very happy.

Edit: Just reread the original post. Seems C isn't an option really... I'm sure there was a string tension calculator thing on a website somewhere which could help here though.

Edited March 11, 2010 by Eight

[ThomBassmonkey]

Nah, definitely got to be D

I might see if I can get a set of 120s, if not, I'll just get 115s and tune them down for now I think.

[Bigwan]

I play 100s on my standard tuned basses (I've bounced back and forth between 100 and 105 for a few years now, mostly because I dig in too hard with my right hand fingers and the 105s can handle that a bit better, but as I've been working to fix my technique I've settled on 100s). My D tuned bass (DGCF as you're talking about) is loaded with 110s. Feels the same as 100s at standard to me.

[Adrenochrome]

[quote name='Bigwan' post='772407' date='Mar 12 2010, 08:25 AM']My D tuned bass (DGCF as you're talking about) is loaded with 110s. Feels the same as 100s at standard to me.[/quote]

Bang on! I play DGCF as standard and it's perfect tension with 50-70-90-110. I can even get to drop C and it's still playable (if a little loose). I have through-body stringing and good break angles at the nut so that might help the 'feel' of it.
Jon

[JTUK]

I wouldn't bother and would tend to fret it if poss.
Treat it as an exercise, but only you'll know if it will work

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='JTUK' post='772517' date='Mar 12 2010, 10:15 AM']I wouldn't bother and would tend to fret it if poss.
Treat it as an exercise, but only you'll know if it will work[/quote]

I've tried it (it's how I play it at the moment on my standard tuned 6er). There's a lot of shifting hand position and while the guitarist is playing the open d while he's moving, I'm fretting so I can't properly move my hand. It's doable and sounds "ok" live but it is very sloppy and as much as I've practiced it, I think I've just hit a point where the only way to make it really smooth without dedicating my life to practising that one riff is to have that open low D.

[bassbloke]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='771988' date='Mar 11 2010, 07:10 PM']every so often though, some b*****d guitarist decides "I'm gonna write a riff that involves hammering between the D string and loads of random frets as quickly as I can"[/quote]

Does mean you have to though...

[tayste_2000]

Most of my basses are DCGF or ADGCF including some shortscale basses other than my 36inch scale Overwater everything is strung with 50-110 Overwater strings either Stainless Steel Rounds or the custom flats I ordered

I use the rule of thumb +5 per -tone

I do however still use the standard Overwater 134 Low B for my Low A

It's a great tuning to play in seems more natural to me for rock music.

[thodrik]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='772091' date='Mar 11 2010, 08:54 PM']I've not had that yet, drop D is for lazy 5th chords so guitarists don't tend to go so fast if they have to move back to a normal fingering position IME. Lazy buggers. I've never had problems with changing strings at all in 4th tunings while the guitarist's been in drop D.

Yeah, I used 110s I think last time but if I'm dedicating a bass to the tuning, I'd rather have the right gauge strings. Would 115s be enough or should I try and search out some 120s do you think?[/quote]

Yeah, I tried doing DGCF tuning and then the guitarist decided to do a riff that needed an open D and G string as well, it just made more sense for me to stay in drop D (which I still don't like if I'm honest). I think lots of Tool songs are based around a low D and a higher open D as well.

If its for big sounding riffs I would take 120s, they wouldn't feel loose or slippery and would sound fairly tight. Anything more than that would be a bit excessive in my opinion as its only tuning each string a tone down.

[ThomBassmonkey]

Well I've been playing around now I've got the BC and I don't know what gauge is on it at the moment, but I'll be swapping them off for some 115s at some point.

As for the whole "do you have to follow the guitar" thing, I always do what suits the music best and when the guitar drops to a heavy riff, locking in with it sounds brilliant. There are times when harmonies or different basslines work, but there are definitely some points when following the guitar is the only reasonable option if you actually want it to sound good.

I would show you the song that it's for, but it's one of the few songs that there are no recordings of. There's a similar part in Fashionable Place of Birth (recording on our myspace, link in sig) that's about 2:10 in. There are other options, but none of them would sound as good as just following the guitar IMO.

[silverfoxnik]

My BC Rich Eagle is tuned DGCF and it sounds great! No noticeable loss of string tension with a set of 0.45-.105 gauge strings on it.. Works really well for some tunes we do.

[Protium]

I just tune down my 100 80 65 45s which are then fairly loose, but then again I like the sound it gives. I wouldn't go above 110 tuning to D.

[tayste_2000]

If you want some strings to experiment with

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=72536"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=72536[/url]

[matski]

I was playing in a band that used drop tuning for 30% of the songs in the set - however I only have the one 5-string so had to get a little creative.

I kept the 5er in the regular tuning of BEADG, but put the bottom 4 strings from a set of 5s onto a 4 string and dropped the tuning to ADAD. Gauges were 130, 100, 80, 80. The strings didn't sit in the grooves on the nut but on top, so action was a little high, but it was better than trying to retune one bass 5 times a set...

[OutToPlayJazz]

I've never understood all of these alternative tunings. I suppose I rely on knowing where all the notes are (be it 4,5 or 6 string) and if they all suddenly moved, I'd be very confused. No good when you're sight reading like fury!

I like the idea of the A D G C (perfect fifths) tuning. Like a viola/cello or a tenor banjo, although the bass and it's close cousin the double bass were tuned in fourths for a reason - To cope with the larger scale length!

Edit: Did you mean

A
D
G
C in fifths

or...

C
G
D
A in fourths?

Edited March 15, 2010 by OutToPlayJazz

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='775418' date='Mar 15 2010, 05:14 PM']I've never understood all of these alternative tunings. I suppose I rely on knowing where all the notes are (be it 4,5 or 6 string) and if they all suddenly moved, I'd be very confused. No good when you're sight reading like fury!

I like the idea of the A D G C (perfect fifths) tuning. Like a viola/cello or a tenor banjo, although the bass and it's close cousin the double bass were tuned in fourths for a reason - To cope with the larger scale length!

Edit: Did you mean

A
D
G
C in fifths

or...

C
G
D
A in fourths?[/quote]

I can't read music well enough to rely on, so I never have that problem. I've thought about tuning to 5ths, I'm just too lazy to re-learn my shapes (with all of the 5 minutes it would take for the basic scales and arpeggios). It could be worth a try. Hmm, it is an interesting idea though and something I still intend to try.

I'm thinking from a low D to a high F (so 4ths). The idea with the low B (or A/C in your examples) was just me rambling on a tangent to the thread about other tunings I'm considering using. I might re-tune my Washburn AEBF# to give it a try. Having the range of a 5 string with the accessibility of a 4 string can't hurt.

[Tait]

have you thought about just having one of your new 4 stringers permenantly tuned to DADG? sorry, you may have already given a reason why not, but i must have missed it, and that seems the obvious thing to do to me.

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='Tait' post='775836' date='Mar 15 2010, 11:10 PM']have you thought about just having one of your new 4 stringers permenantly tuned to DADG? sorry, you may have already given a reason why not, but i must have missed it, and that seems the obvious thing to do to me.[/quote]

I just don't like having my intervals messed with between strings. Drop D is purely there for lazy guitarists to play riffs with one finger, since basses don't tend to use chords (at least I personally don't low down) it doesn't make sense for me to make arpeggios and scales (which I use) harder for myself and chords (which I don't use) easier.

The sale fell through on the P and Jazz, so only got 2 4ers and 1 6er for the moment, though I'm hoping to get another ERB later this year anyway.

Think I'm just gonna keep my 6er in standard, put my BC in DGCF and I'll try out AEBF# on my Washburn on Wednesday. Should be an interesting experiment.

Thanks for the help everyone, it's helped me decide what I'm gonna do. If I be bothered to play with strings and can stomach the 5ths, I might report back on how it feels.

[Basska]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='775915' date='Mar 16 2010, 03:43 AM']Drop D is purely there for lazy guitarists to play riffs with one finger[/quote]

+1 on that statement being a total farce lol