Old school funk / rock vibe, portability

[yelees]

Hey everybody,

I'm using the HS410 with a Shuttle 6 which is a great sounding rig but it's very hi-fi, percussive, clear - very versatile and an amazing rig for slap / modern tones.

The problem is that 90% of the time I prefer old-school funk / rock tones a la John Paul Jones / Flea, the ability to RAWK but have a warm / vintage vibe going on too. - I always play with the horn / tweeter dialled back completely but the actual 10" cones are....almost too good at representing sound lol

- I'm also starting to think more about portability / modularity... anybody got recommendations within the Berg lineup e.g. 2 x ex112er?
- or should I maybe start off with some kinda 1 x 15?

The tone search continues!

(Obviously this search means that some lucky bugger is going to get my HS410!)

[chris_b]

I would guess that your problem is with the amp not the cab.

I've tried a Shuttle 6 and felt it lacked a lot in the bass tone dept! In my opinion, Markbass is better, deeper and fatter and so is GK. If you've got the cash, a Mesa Boogie is supposed to pair really well with the HS410.

I've put an Ampeg SVT3 PRO through modern cabs (Epifani and Bergantino) and got a pretty good, fat, "vintage" tone.

[yelees]

[quote name='chris_b' post='773769' date='Mar 13 2010, 06:00 PM']I would guess that your problem is with the amp not the cab.

I've tried a Shuttle 6 and felt it lacked a lot in the bass tone dept! In my opinion, Markbass is better, deeper and fatter and so is GK. If you've got the cash, a Mesa Boogie is supposed to pair really well with the HS410.

I've put an Ampeg SVT3 PRO through modern cabs (Epifani and Bergantino) and got a pretty good, fat, "vintage" tone.[/quote]

Yeah I almost bought an SVT a couple of years ago but I'm currently digging the idea of being able to get on a tube or jump in a taxi with my rig. - would a Catalinbread SFT / Tech-21 VT pedal combined with the inherently less-responsive, less trebly 1x15" not get me most of the way there but still have portability?

I accidentally went crazy on the guitar amp front too and got a 50w head and 2 x 12 cab which is one of the loudest things I've ever freaking played which now makes me thing I should get a 1x12 18w combo which will still be plenty loud at London club gigs, loud enough for bigger gigs when I'll be mic'd up and also carries in 1 hand!

[chris_b]

I currently use a Bergantino AE112 cab and in the past used Aguilar GS112 cabs both can get the sound you want. The Aguilar DB112's are supposed to be very good as well, but I think you will need 2 cabs to get any sort of band volume. If you're after a lightweight and loud 115 then the Barefaced Compact must come pretty high on your "listen to" list.

[yelees]

[quote name='chris_b' post='773778' date='Mar 13 2010, 06:19 PM']I currently use a Bergantino AE112 cab and in the past used Aguilar GS112 cabs both can get the sound you want. The Aguilar DB112's are supposed to be very good as well, but I think you will need 2 cabs to get any sort of band volume. If you're after a lightweight and loud 115 then the Barefaced Compact must come pretty high on your "listen to" list.[/quote]

Well, the Barefaced Compact is 100% on my list!

- I'm surprised what little reading I can find on this cab considering the overwhelmingly positive response from the small percentage of testimonials that I have discovered scattered hither and thither.

I'd definitely like to try one out, or maybe just say "screw it" and buy one.

[warwickhunt]

IMHO a pair of Aggie DB112's will do the trick for you!

When my long standing rig (of 15years) developed a terminal condition, I spent a long time d1cking around with loads of cabs (neos/10's/12's/15's etc) before I found the tone I wanted in the DB's. For me they have the old school thump but have enough clarity that you get heard and can hear what you are doing. As has been said already though, they don't have that oomph in single form but doubled up they exceed expectations.

[Musicman20]

Markbass Jeff Berlin Combo?

I agree on the Shuttle and HS410...although it's more than the amp
than the cab being too 'hifi' I think. I also found that cabinet brilliant...but it is extremely clear and transparent.

If you want a little more vintage thud have you tried flats on your bass?

[Musicman20]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='773812' date='Mar 13 2010, 07:12 PM']IMHO a pair of Aggie DB112's will do the trick for you!

When my long standing rig (of 15years) developed a terminal condition, I spent a long time d1cking around with loads of cabs (neos/10's/12's/15's etc) before I found the tone I wanted in the DB's. For me they have the old school thump but have enough clarity that you get heard and can hear what you are doing. As has been said already though, they don't have that oomph in single form but doubled up they exceed expectations.[/quote]

+1 Aguilars will be great as well.

[yelees]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='773815' date='Mar 13 2010, 07:15 PM']+1 Aguilars will be great as well.[/quote]

Haven't tried flats yet, I know that's an obvious move.. I'm considering just letting my rounds get uber old / cruddy. Not from experience, but I've read that if you want to dig in you don't really get a lot of grind from a flat in the same way as you do from a round. But I guess you can't have it every way.

The DB112's look the nuts and I know a bassist who uses a 212 and loves it....

[Musicman20]

[quote name='yelees' post='773818' date='Mar 13 2010, 07:20 PM']Haven't tried flats yet, I know that's an obvious move.. I'm considering just letting my rounds get uber old / cruddy. Not from experience, but I've read that if you want to dig in you don't really get a lot of grind from a flat in the same way as you do from a round. But I guess you can't have it every way.

The DB112's look the nuts and I know a bassist who uses a 212 and loves it....[/quote]

I have two DB212s, and despite the fact the can be a bugger to move around (apart from the casters) they sound HUUUUUGE. You can go from old fat motown thump to a more aggressive articulate tone. Very nice tweeters.

I never used 12s until I heard the Aguilars and now I wouldnt be without a 12 cab of some kind.

[yelees]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='773878' date='Mar 13 2010, 08:57 PM']I have two DB212s, and despite the fact the can be a bugger to move around (apart from the casters) they sound HUUUUUGE. You can go from old fat motown thump to a more aggressive articulate tone. Very nice tweeters.

I never used 12s until I heard the Aguilars and now I wouldnt be without a 12 cab of some kind.[/quote]

I'm going to do my best to ignore all of what you just said

I don't think I'm after anything with a tweeter as I prefer my aggressive / overdriven sounds to still have a kind of warmth to them / not much treble. Also, my HS410 is pretty freaking immense but I'm looking for extra portability (it's no problem in and out of my car boot & the casters are great but I'm thinking more about chucking things in a cab, or possible braving it on the tube!)

[yelees]

[quote name='yelees' post='773974' date='Mar 13 2010, 10:58 PM']I'm going to do my best to ignore all of what you just said

I don't think I'm after anything with a tweeter as I prefer my aggressive / overdriven sounds to still have a kind of warmth to them / not much treble. Also, my HS410 is pretty freaking immense but I'm looking for extra portability (it's no problem in and out of my car boot & the casters are great but I'm thinking more about chucking things in a cab, or possible braving it on the tube!)[/quote]

- obviously if I start playing large gigs and / or get a roadie, I'll be getting a nice SVT with a Berg NV or full on Ampeg fridge! XD

[Beedster]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='773814' date='Mar 13 2010, 07:14 PM']If you want a little more vintage thud have you tried flats on your bass?[/quote]

+1

Change the signal first, then think about the processing. A set of La Bella DT s can take the most hi-fi rig back 40 years.

Hell of a lot cheaper also

C

[Musicman20]

The DB212s are bigger than the HS410 but lighter. If you want smaller check the DB112 or GS112 and roll the tweets off or just buy the tweeterless cabs, (although they are easier to sell on with tweets).

[Grand Wazoo]

I have recently sent my Mark Bass combo model CMD102P to the distributors for a head swap having bought a Little Mark Tube to fit in there, I did this through Darren of Bass Merchant in Colechester who while my amP was away he let me borrow a Genz Benz Shuttle 6 and this is a review I wrote about it. (By the way Darren is a star)

-----

Well I guess since I had never tried one of these Genz - Benz Shuttle 6.0 before in my life and I happen to have one on loan for a few days, I might as well give it a good test and write my findings here.

This amp is only temporarily replacing my Mark Bass CMD102P combo which is undergoing a head change from the Little Mark II head to the Little Mark Tube 500 one, and as a result, the benchmark upon which this Genz - Benz is being compared to is an act difficult to follow to say the least.

The G-B has all these funky blue and red lights for various functions and actually they are a bit too bright for my liking to the point where looking at them directly actually bothers my eyes sight, far from relaxing, I wish you could dimmer them down a bit.

the controls are divided in sections:

Tube Preamp controls are Gain & Volume with a red overload clip light to warn you of it. There is a mute button which it's actually a neat idea not present on the Mark Bass and makes swapping basses noise free and safe to your speakers.
The EQ controls:
Active Parametric Equalization
Low / Mid (cut/boost) / Mid Freq lets you shape the Mids once you are done with boosting/cutting / High

Following are 3 buttons each dedicated to an additional post eq series of preset curves, these are from left to right:

L.F. Boost (Low Freq, Boost obviously)
Mid Scoop (Similar to Trace Elliot Smiley Face)
H.F. Attack (High Freq. Boost)

Master Section
Master Volume and a series of lights that indicates the status of the power amp ranging from top to bottom as follows:
Clip/Limiter - lights up when auto limiter kicks in and prevents you from blowing your speakers

Signal - lights up when the mute button is on and "signal" is fed through the speaker.... what's the point of this? I fail to recognize.
Thermal - I assume this would light up when the amp is overheating, this one is handy.

Operate - It's on when everything is ok, so I assume it's a light that reasure you thunderbirds are go and all is tickety-boo. If you know better tell me, I might have missed something.

The whole thing is quite light and aestetically does nothing to me compared to the macho looks of a Mark Bass combo or head. Frankly this head looks like someone has stuck one of those old retro Marantz Stereo Amp on a mobile discoteque speaker with a grill and a fancy name (Genz-Benz)

Before I move on to the actual aural characteristics of this amp let me tell you that I am not a fan of the small metal control pots, for the following reasons: Their tRavel is far from smooth and it actually require a little force to turn, the fact that these knobs are so stiff and also so small, it does not make them ergonomically comfortable to operate. They are made of solid knurled alluminium they are cold to the touch and last but not least they friggin' crackle a lot when turning, maybe this particular one being used might need a little contact spray tlc on the pots, but in one year of ownership my Mark Bass has never developed crackling pot yet and I am told this amp is a shop demo 7 months old.

-------

So, what does it sound like?

Well it's very modern sounding, the EQ section gives you a very good range and this is where the heart of your sound is chiselled, oh and forget the mileage you can get from a Mark Bass with all the control set flat and just work with your bass on board preamp to boost bass middle and treble! You just can't do the same with this amp as the bass sound is simply not reproduced as naturally as it is with a MBass. Period!

Here my friends, you really need to shape it with bass over the centre flat line and same with the mids, and you need to back off the high a little as it is slightly brittle from flat.

Once you are happy with this set up you better stick with it because when you come to the next section (the 3 preshape buttons) you will realize that the individual boost they provide is really only useful for a demo showcase of your slap technique than real life sound adaptation. They are just flash modes but not really something you want to use for your regular gigs.

I dare say these are barely my observations of course, and for all you know if a bright 80's style punchy sound like Mark King is what you look for in an amp than this for you.

And finally, overall this amp is actually quite noisy, if you move your hands away from the bass, it's all zzzzzzzz and hummmm and crackle & pop. Not a speck of the quiteness you get with a Mark Bass, and if you don't believe me, watch this review from Ed Friedland, we know Ed is God and anything he plays he makes it sound musical and artful, but watch what happens when he stops playing and starts talking and his hand are moving away from the bass.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnex...&v=SJYX2Fkpuzg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnex...&v=SJYX2Fkpuzg[/url]

[guyl]

[quote name='bass5' post='774046' date='Mar 14 2010, 02:01 AM'].... let me tell you that I am not a fan of the small metal control pots, for the following reasons: Their tRavel is far from smooth and it actually require a little force to turn, the fact that these knobs are so stiff and also so small, it does not make them ergonomically comfortable to operate. They are made of solid knurled alluminium they are cold to the touch and last but not least they friggin' crackle a lot when turning, maybe this particular one being used might need a little contact spray tlc on the pots, but in one year of ownership my Mark Bass has never developed crackling pot yet and I am told this amp is a shop demo 7 months old.

-------

... it's all zzzzzzzz and hummmm and crackle & pop.[/quote]


Earth buzz problems and crackling pots? Has anyone else suffered these problems on a nearly new Shuttle or did this guy just end up with an unusual duffer?

[wateroftyne]

Just to echo what's been said... start with your strings & amp before moving to the cab.

I've used the HS410 - and now a pair of HS210s for modularity's sake - and with the horn rolled right off (important) it gets nice and fat.. but them I'm using a hybrid head with the emphasis on 'tubey'.

That said, I've thought about swapping the HS210s for a pair of HT112s... just for the sake of swapping.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='bass5' post='774046' date='Mar 14 2010, 02:01 AM']I have recently sent my Mark Bass combo model CMD102P to the distributors for a head swap having bought a Little Mark Tube to fit in there, I did this through Darren of Bass Merchant in Colechester who while my amP was away he let me borrow a Genz Benz Shuttle 6 and this is a review I wrote about it. (By the way Darren is a star)

-----

Well I guess since I had never tried one of these Genz - Benz Shuttle 6.0 before in my life and I happen to have one on loan for a few days, I might as well give it a good test and write my findings here.

This amp is only temporarily replacing my Mark Bass CMD102P combo which is undergoing a head change from the Little Mark II head to the Little Mark Tube 500 one, and as a result, the benchmark upon which this Genz - Benz is being compared to is an act difficult to follow to say the least.

The G-B has all these funky blue and red lights for various functions and actually they are a bit too bright for my liking to the point where looking at them directly actually bothers my eyes sight, far from relaxing, I wish you could dimmer them down a bit.

the controls are divided in sections:

Tube Preamp controls are Gain & Volume with a red overload clip light to warn you of it. There is a mute button which it's actually a neat idea not present on the Mark Bass and makes swapping basses noise free and safe to your speakers.
The EQ controls:
Active Parametric Equalization
Low / Mid (cut/boost) / Mid Freq lets you shape the Mids once you are done with boosting/cutting / High

Following are 3 buttons each dedicated to an additional post eq series of preset curves, these are from left to right:

L.F. Boost (Low Freq, Boost obviously)
Mid Scoop (Similar to Trace Elliot Smiley Face)
H.F. Attack (High Freq. Boost)

Master Section
Master Volume and a series of lights that indicates the status of the power amp ranging from top to bottom as follows:
Clip/Limiter - lights up when auto limiter kicks in and prevents you from blowing your speakers

Signal - lights up when the mute button is on and "signal" is fed through the speaker.... what's the point of this? I fail to recognize.
Thermal - I assume this would light up when the amp is overheating, this one is handy.

Operate - It's on when everything is ok, so I assume it's a light that reasure you thunderbirds are go and all is tickety-boo. If you know better tell me, I might have missed something.

The whole thing is quite light and aestetically does nothing to me compared to the macho looks of a Mark Bass combo or head. Frankly this head looks like someone has stuck one of those old retro Marantz Stereo Amp on a mobile discoteque speaker with a grill and a fancy name (Genz-Benz)

Before I move on to the actual aural characteristics of this amp let me tell you that I am not a fan of the small metal control pots, for the following reasons: Their tRavel is far from smooth and it actually require a little force to turn, the fact that these knobs are so stiff and also so small, it does not make them ergonomically comfortable to operate. They are made of solid knurled alluminium they are cold to the touch and last but not least they friggin' crackle a lot when turning, maybe this particular one being used might need a little contact spray tlc on the pots, but in one year of ownership my Mark Bass has never developed crackling pot yet and I am told this amp is a shop demo 7 months old.

-------

So, what does it sound like?

Well it's very modern sounding, the EQ section gives you a very good range and this is where the heart of your sound is chiselled, oh and forget the mileage you can get from a Mark Bass with all the control set flat and just work with your bass on board preamp to boost bass middle and treble! You just can't do the same with this amp as the bass sound is simply not reproduced as naturally as it is with a MBass. Period!

Here my friends, you really need to shape it with bass over the centre flat line and same with the mids, and you need to back off the high a little as it is slightly brittle from flat.

Once you are happy with this set up you better stick with it because when you come to the next section (the 3 preshape buttons) you will realize that the individual boost they provide is really only useful for a demo showcase of your slap technique than real life sound adaptation. They are just flash modes but not really something you want to use for your regular gigs.

I dare say these are barely my observations of course, and for all you know if a bright 80's style punchy sound like Mark King is what you look for in an amp than this for you.

And finally, overall this amp is actually quite noisy, if you move your hands away from the bass, it's all zzzzzzzz and hummmm and crackle & pop. Not a speck of the quiteness you get with a Mark Bass, and if you don't believe me, watch this review from Ed Friedland, we know Ed is God and anything he plays he makes it sound musical and artful, but watch what happens when he stops playing and starts talking and his hand are moving away from the bass.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnex...&v=SJYX2Fkpuzg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnex...&v=SJYX2Fkpuzg[/url][/quote]

Thanks for the review. Darren and co are always helpful which is what keeps me going back hahah.

I agree on the Genz front completely. They just do not sound that amazing flat....and yep they dont have that 'build' feel that the MB amps do. I think if you really dig MB amps, you probably wont dig the GB amps as they are much more brittle and bright.

Obviously though, a lot of players really dig the GB amps and cabs, as its each to their own.

I thought I might like the hi-fi tone and bought a Shuttle 9.0, but I had a few problems with it and it wasnt really my thing so I sent it back for a TC RH450 which is fantastic and can definitely do the old school thump and more aggressive rock tones. Now I realise hi-fi just isnt me...at all. Its not the bass tone I searching for.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Musicman20

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='guyl' post='774069' date='Mar 14 2010, 07:54 AM']Earth buzz problems and crackling pots? Has anyone else suffered these problems on a nearly new Shuttle or did this guy just end up with an unusual duffer?[/quote]

Well [color="#FF0000"][i][b]"this guy"[/b][/i][/color] did not end with a duffer, I was only borrowing until my MB got back from fitting the new head. I also mentioned that the crackling pots might be due to this amp being a 7 months old shop demo and that perhaps the pots could have done with some contact spray, however they were very stiff to turn, and as a result too small to tweak, I didn't find them comfortable specially with the knurled metal feel they gave. In conclusion the amp lacked warmth, I can only blame my dislike for this amp to the fact that owning a Mark Bass, I am spoiled by the ballsy real warm sound it gives with just all the eq pots set to flat, that I hardly need to tweak the amp and I can get away through a whole set of songs just by the instrument EQ controls. I realized this in my view cannot be achieved with the G-Benz.

[alanbass1]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='774294' date='Mar 14 2010, 01:57 PM']Thanks for the review. Darren and co are always helpful which is what keeps me going back hahah.

I agree on the Genz front completely. They just do not sound that amazing flat....and yep they dont have that 'build' feel that the MB amps do. I think if you really dig MB amps, you probably wont dig the GB amps as they are much more brittle and bright.

Obviously though, a lot of players really dig the GB amps and cabs, as its each to their own.

I thought I might like the hi-fi tone and bought a Shuttle 9.0, but I had a few problems with it and it wasnt really my thing so I sent it back for a TC RH450. Now I realise hi-fi just isnt me...at all. Its not the bass tone I searching for.[/quote]

I use a TC RH450 with Berg HT112/EX112 cabs. This certainly nails the old school sound and lot more besides. Not as clean as my Markbass heads but the warmth and punch of the TC head is very valve like

[Musicman20]

[quote name='alanbass1' post='774632' date='Mar 14 2010, 08:12 PM']I use a TC RH450 with Berg HT112/EX112 cabs. This certainly nails the old school sound and lot more besides. Not as clean as my Markbass heads but the warmth and punch of the TC head is very valve like[/quote]

Agreed, I think I may have written my part incorrectly so I have edited.

The MB and TC amps can do old school perfectly....and then some!