help an idiot who has no idea how to set his controls

[daz]

I recently purchased a nearly new 450Watt Behringer BX4210A. Yes i know its a Behringer and i have heard all the negatives, but a nearly new amp combo for £70 is a good deal in my book. Anywho, i had a noodle on it with the sellers bass while i was there, as did he. I noticed it had a good sound, so i left the controls where they were when i got home. Of course i made no note of where they were! So when young nephew comes in and procedes to twiddle every knob (as kids that age do) Now my bass sounds like its playing through speakers made of mud, and i cant seem to get it back. Can anyone direct me to a good place to start with the settings. I have a pic below of the controls, the Ultrabass and shape can be ignored as they are supplementary to the main sound and can be switched on and of seperately and i almost always have them off. The same with the 'Deep' and 'Bright' with the square buttons below the Bass and Treble.
If you click on the pic you get a good view of all the controls.

Can some kind sould point me in the right direction to start out ? I know its all subjective, but where do i start from? Again my apologies for such an daft question.


[b]Behringer BX4210a[/b][u][/u]

[Bankai]

I'd suggest asking the previous owner. If they're his settings you can bet that he'll never forget them!

[jim_bass]

If you think it sound muddy (deep, lacking definition?), I'd start by playing with the mid / treble controls and make sure the ultra bass setting is off(?)

But another thing is what bass did he play through it compared to yours as that could have a massive difference on your sound, especially if it was an active bass with lots of tone control on the bass.

[daz]

[quote name='jim_bass' post='774417' date='Mar 14 2010, 04:26 PM']If you think it sound muddy (deep, lacking definition?), I'd start by playing with the mid / treble controls and make sure the ultra bass setting is off(?)

But another thing is what bass did he play through it compared to yours as that could have a massive difference on your sound, especially if it was an active bass with lots of tone control on the bass.[/quote]

Sorry i forgot to mention i have only passive basses going through it at the mo'. The ultrabass is off, its very obvious when its on, its a sort of octaver with a vibro sound.!

Edited March 14, 2010 by daz

[Pete Academy]

It looks like an Ashdown rif-off, especially with the Ultrabass control and VU meter. A good starting point is with the tone controls at 12 o'clock, as this is usually a 'flat' setting. Anti-clockwise should cut the tone and clockwise should boost.

Might be helpful if you specifiy what music you play and what sound you like.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Pete Academy

[JTUK]

I don't know these amps...but I'd start with

Bass
All pups open if a passive bass and the tone control up.. but there you may have to come back to this.

Amp
Gain at around half way.. or until the loudest peak of your input signal goes into the shaded part. It is ok to have that level exceeded
but only on the peaks.

Keep the bass control around midway and the treble a tad above midway..

Leave the 3 mids as they are in the pic and then set the volume for your circs/room. Then switch in and out the pre-shape and see how that sounds.
Once you have gotten to grips with that... try one tweak of a mid control at a time so you can always go back to your basic sound.

The mids have a huge influence over sound so need to used sparingly until you understand and can hear what they are doing.
Too many people use mids as a volume type control as that is the only way amps will cut through but it can be a very unuseable sound as well..

Baically start with a bass and treble sound and cut or boost..

I prefer newer strings as this cuts out so much gunk as well...

but it depends if you want a defined tone or a thunk... personally pref comes in here

Edited March 14, 2010 by JTUK

[thisnameistaken]

Start with all the EQ knobs in the middle, all the push switches out, the suboctave knob off, tone controls on your bass centred if it's active, if it's passive bass leave the tone all the way up for now.

Try turning one of the EQ knobs down and see how it sounds, then turn it up and see how that sounds, then back to centre. Now do that with each of the other knobs.

Then try (with the EQ flat still) the "shape" knob (with the shape switch on) and the other switches, see how they sound.

Then you should be able to decide which frequencies are causing the horrible muddy sound you hate.

[daz]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='774482' date='Mar 14 2010, 05:49 PM']Start with all the EQ knobs in the middle, all the push switches out, the suboctave knob off, tone controls on your bass centred if it's active, if it's passive bass leave the tone all the way up for now.

Try turning one of the EQ knobs down and see how it sounds, then turn it up and see how that sounds, then back to centre. Now do that with each of the other knobs.

Then try (with the EQ flat still) the "shape" knob (with the shape switch on) and the other switches, see how they sound.

Then you should be able to decide which frequencies are causing the horrible muddy sound you hate.[/quote]

Thanks for the advice, i will try that. As for the music i play. I have only been playing for four months, so i dont really play anthing yet, other than scales, chord tones etc, and the dozen or so old Stranglers, Public image Ltd, Buzzcocks or punk riffs i recall with affection, maybe the odd Nirvana RATM etc.
(although i do like to noodle away and try and make up my own riffs. Trouble is, im never sure if they are mine or riffs i have heard and forgot )

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='774439' date='Mar 14 2010, 04:53 PM']It looks like an Ashdown rif-off, especially with the Ultrabass control and VU meter. A good starting point is with the tone controls at 12 o'clock, as this is usually a 'flat' setting. Anti-clockwise should cut the tone and clockwise should boost.

Might be helpful if you specifiy what music you play and what sound you like.[/quote]

Indeed it does look like an Ashdown ripoff, but then im told by those who know that Behringer has a rep (A [i]reputation[/i] not a Representative in charge of rip offs Ho ho ) for ripping off other firms ideas. Not been into the game long enough to know either way personally.

ps: i feel a real idiot having to ask this, but when people say [i]leave[/i] the tone control all the way up, they do mean up as in clockwise and to the treble end of the spectrum ? The same direction as turning the Volume control up?

Edited March 14, 2010 by daz

[JTUK]

opps, sorry..

up or open..means all the way which should typically mean clockwise which ever way you approach the control

If looking at it on an amp...it would be clockwise... with maximum boast of that control being the farthest it can go...if the control works..you'll certainly hear it.


But..and just to confuse you.... some of these controls have cuts and boast..so they have center indents to denote the sound is flat...if you then turn anti-clockwise, you cut the tone and clockwise you boast it..

You'll also see things like +- 15bd..which means that if you start from that centred position... you are flat or nuetral and can cut or boast the control/tone..

Don't worry too much about it..use your ears..it is only a reference.

It will fall into place soon enough..

[alanbass1]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='774482' date='Mar 14 2010, 05:49 PM']Start with all the EQ knobs in the middle, all the push switches out, the suboctave knob off, tone controls on your bass centred if it's active, if it's passive bass leave the tone all the way up for now.

Try turning one of the EQ knobs down and see how it sounds, then turn it up and see how that sounds, then back to centre. Now do that with each of the other knobs.

Then try (with the EQ flat still) the "shape" knob (with the shape switch on) and the other switches, see how they sound.

Then you should be able to decide which frequencies are causing the horrible muddy sound you hate.[/quote]


+1. Start with everything flat and experiment by turning each knob to understand what they do. Trust your ears as you obviously know the sound you are looking for.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='daz' post='774490' date='Mar 14 2010, 05:58 PM']ps: i feel a real idiot having to ask this, but when people say [i]leave[/i] the tone control all the way up, they do mean up as in clockwise and to the treble end of the spectrum ? The same direction as turning the Volume control up?[/quote]

Yes. When someone says set something "flat" they're generally talking about a control that can cut or boost centred at a certain frequency (like the bass/mid/treble knobs on an active bass, or the EQ on a bass amp), and the middle position does nothing - that's "flat".

On a passive bass like a Fender which has a control labeled "tone" but no battery, what that knob actually does is remove the treble content of your signal as you turn it down (it never "adds" treble or bass, it just removes treble and gives a similar effect). With the knob full up you're getting the whole signal from the pickup, so full up for a passive tone knob is the "flat" setting.

It's always best to start from "flat" because over-EQing your sound generally causes problems, either in terms of what your amp/speakers can realistically deal with without distorting, or sonic problems in terms of where your bass sound sits in the band mix, or even the way your bass sound interacts with the room you're playing in. Much better to identify the parts of the frequency spectrum you want to hear more of (and/or the ones you don't) and adjust your EQ to achieve that.

Oh and they always say it's better to cut than boost - so rather than giving it +6dB on a frequency you really like, consider cutting by 6dB around that frequency, same result just a different approach. I think this advice is something to do with making sure you don't distort the preamp but I don't know exactly why. But it's probably sound advice and something you should bear in mind.

FWIW after 20 years of playing and god knows how many different basses and amps, I'm currently gigging a Jazz bass with a passive tone knob and an amp with just a passive 3-knob tone stack on the front of it. Fair play to the geezers with the rack-mounted 24-band graphic EQs and so on but they either desire a very specific sound and have amazing ears, or they have a compulsion to buy expensive gear they don't really know how to use. You don't necessarily need all that.

Edited March 15, 2010 by thisnameistaken

[gjones]

This might help you out. The beringer website for this amp includes pdf manual to download which explains the functions of the various knobs and buttons [url="http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/BX4210A.aspx#documentation"]http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/BX421...x#documentation[/url]