Help for tone at low volume

[spinynorman]

I have a Hartke HA3500 (the old black one), an Ashdown Mag 2x10 (older Chinese "deep" version) and Mag 1x15 (really old English "not deep" version). So it's not exactly a high end rig. We play a range of material from 60s to current and rock to pop, so I need flexibility without too much fiddling about. Main bass is MIJ Precision. What I've found is the current rig is ok if it's a bigger venue and I can get the master volume up to at least 2. In small pubs, where ideally I'd be turning down lower than that, the tone just disappears. This small pub thing seems to be happening a lot.

The options I'm wrestling with are:

a) The rig's ok, I just using it wrong. Settings I generally use are Tube & SS preamps both on 5, compression off, EQ scooped out the mids (smile), low pass contour +3, high pass -3. There's a Korg DT10 between the bass and the amp.
B ) Amp's ok, cabs aren't up to it. In which case, what would be a good upgrade (one selling point of the Mags was light weight, wouldn't want any unit over 20KG, prepared to spend more money now though).
c) Replace the lot. In which case, with what? Again light is good. Would require long term counseling for any solution over £750.

Hartke pic here for reference [url="http://s3.amazonaws.com/samsontech/related_docs/HA3500.jpg"]http://s3.amazonaws.com/samsontech/related_docs/HA3500.jpg[/url]

All ideas gratefully received.

Edited March 17, 2010 by spinynorman

[Mr. Foxen]

Put the mids back. And stand the 2x10 on its side, and the 15 in such a way it is at its tallest.

[spinynorman]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='777448' date='Mar 17 2010, 02:35 PM']Put the mids back. And stand the 2x10 on its side, and the 15 in such a way it is at its tallest.[/quote]

Actually I'm leading you wrong there. Now I think about it, the mids are accentuated, smile's upside down.

I did once try a gig with just the 1x15 on its side. I spent most of the time worrying about the amp falling off, it was definitely moving (it's in a rack case). With both on their side stacked I'd be really worried. The cabs being slightly different sizes (thanks Ashdown) doesn't help.

[geoffbyrne]

Try turning up the master and turning down the gain.

G.

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='geoffbyrne' post='777715' date='Mar 17 2010, 05:32 PM']Try turning up the master and turning down the gain.

G.[/quote]

Or vice versa

[smudge]

If it is the low end that is missing then try just the 1x15, if it has no definition then just the 2x10 with the amp.... the 2x10 option would allow a bit more on the volume knob and still allow a decent bottom end.

Something at least you can try at home.

[spinynorman]

I've got a gig on Saturday, so I can take both cabs, but only connect 1 to the amp, see which works best. I was also thinking of turning either the tube or solid state preamp right down, which would cut the volume and maybe help with definition. Interesting no one has suggested new gear, which is good, there's other things I could do with the money.

[smudge]

[quote name='spinynorman' post='778554' date='Mar 18 2010, 01:36 PM']I've got a gig on Saturday, so I can take both cabs, but only connect 1 to the amp, see which works best. I was also thinking of turning either the tube or solid state preamp right down, which would cut the volume and maybe help with definition. Interesting no one has suggested new gear, which is good, there's other things I could do with the money.[/quote]

Let us know how you get on and which option worked.

[ThomBassmonkey]

I don't know how relevant to bass it is, but certainly on guitar having a valve amp on low volumes can sound muddy so you might want to try turning that right down.

[endorka]

I wouldn't mess with the gain if you have it setup the way you like it - the purpose of gain is to match the output of the bass to the input of the preamp, which is not really your problem here.

What may be your problem is that at lower volumes, the ear perceives less bass. Therefore you need to add some bass and/or low mids into your tone, either by increasing the low pass, or by increasing the lower frequencies on the graphic EQ.

There is a name for this psychoacoustic phenomenon, but I can't remember it :-)

Jennifer

[Shambo]

[quote name='endorka' post='778928' date='Mar 18 2010, 06:01 PM']What may be your problem is that at lower volumes, the ear perceives less bass. Therefore you need to add some bass and/or low mids into your tone, either by increasing the low pass, or by increasing the lower frequencies on the graphic EQ.

[b]There is a name for this psychoacoustic phenomenon, but I can't remember it [/b]:-)

Jennifer[/quote]
Fletcher-Munson sound curves?

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher%E2%80%93Munson_curves"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher%E2%80%93Munson_curves[/url]

[endorka]

That's the one :-)

Jennifer

[spinynorman]

So we had the gig on Saturday, but they wanted it loud. So no chance to try any volume management, though I did turn the tube pre down and that did focus the sound quite a bit. I feel like I'm supposed to like tube tone, but really I don't.

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='spinynorman' post='782993' date='Mar 23 2010, 12:52 AM']So we had the gig on Saturday, but they wanted it loud. So no chance to try any volume management, though I did turn the tube pre down and that did focus the sound quite a bit. I feel like I'm supposed to like tube tone, but really I don't.[/quote]

Glad it helped.

Tubes can sound a bit flabby if they're not being pushed. If they're being driven a bit it makes your sound clearer but you need to drive them for that (which you're not doing at low volumes).

I'm a fan of SS amps anyway though.

[gelfin]

OK no'one has suggested new gear so I will. See if you can try out any Gallien Kreuger heads. I use one. They have a reputation for being tone monsters and have very versatile EQ, especially the "boost". RB 400 RB 700 or bigger. If you can find a used Fusion 550 all the better. This has a tube front end and ss power stage. Normal retail is about £1K ish. I've seen used go for from 500 to 700.

Edited March 24, 2010 by gelfin

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='gelfin' post='785301' date='Mar 24 2010, 11:00 PM']OK no'one has suggested new gear so I will. See if you can try out any Gallien Kreuger heads. I use one. They have a reputation for being tone monsters and have very versatile EQ, especially the "boost". RB 400 RB 700 or bigger. If you can find a used Fusion 550 all the better. This has a tube front end and ss power stage. Normal retail is about £1K ish. I've seen used go for from 500 to 700.[/quote]

I have a 700RB-II and it is a great amp and sounds AWESOME with a 210RBH cab under it. I've had some problems with volume at big gigs but more cabs or a 1001RB-II is always a possibility.

Really fat low end, clear high end and so much punch it'll spark out Ali with one pluck of your open E string.

[Bay Splayer]

not a light option but managable...

hartke LH500.....£299 - brand new

mesa boogie 2x15.....£300 - used (one for sale on this forum, perhaps you could haggle)

£150.... stays in your wallet



thats what i use ayway

[thumperbob 2002]

You need a Sansamp bass driver straight into your effect return- about £100 should sort it- great tone at any volume.

Bob