Guitarist tunes between numbers - what to do?

[OldGit]

This came up in [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=7919&view=findpost&p=781415"]"how was your gig"[/url] so I thought I'd bring it out here.

BigRedX said

"..... the amount of tuning up the guitarists had to do between numbers which with an audience that didn't know us would have killed the atmosphere dead. Something will definitely need to be done about this because it ruins the set pacing, I mentioned it after the last gig, but was pretty much ignored, but a couple of audience members told one of the guitarists this time so hopefully they'll at least think about addressing it.
"


I suggested:

[color="#0000FF"]Hopefully silent tuning ..

That's a bug bear of mine too. Really spoils the flow of the set. Same with keys patch changing .. Just do it silently when the song is ending or the next one is starting without you.
You can plan things so they can tune up during intros or outros when they are not playing. Have bass and drums or keys or something lay down a "holding pattern" for a minute or so at the start of a song whilst they tune. Much much better than silence-with-tumbleweed or frontman chatter whilst they do it.
In fact have the front person do their chatter over the holding pattern, like a local radio DJ, never talk over silence. Works really well...

I played a dep recently with a guitarist with 4 guitars in a rack (for a very average blues rock pub covers band). He changed guitars and tuned between each of the last 3 tunes in the set. Killed it stone dead when it should have had the house rocking for a grand finale ... I did suggest they look at that but it's not my band ....

Oh and there's a new TEC Polytune which shows all strings simultaneously now so the guitarist strums all 6 and gets a display to show which need to go up, which are Ok and which need to go down. That should help[/color]



Dave Bass chipped in with
"Going a bit off topic here but im also fed up with my guitarist having to tune up between almost every song. He does it silently but i feel a right idiot just standing around waiting for the next song to start.
Its got so bad that Ive started to play the intros to songs that i don't normally start, just to try and keep the flow going.

Oh, and another thing that bugs me is that while i can understand our singer taking a swig of water between songs the guitarist also has to do it, at the same time. That means no one other than me or the drummer can start playing. Ive tired to get them to drink at different times but its just got getting through to them (mainly the guitarist, who doesnt sing much anyway).

Sorry, rant over. "

I suggested
[color="#0000FF"]Video the gig. Show them how it looks
or... realise that nothing will stop them and build in set workarounds like holding patterns mentioned above to avoid blank spots, holes where the applause should be etc etc...
Lifts the whole show[/color]


What do you think?

[Spike Vincent]

Shoot them?

Video the gig and show them,worked for my last band.Guitarists invairiably have to tune up on stage more than bassists,but it is indeed a good way of losing the impetus of the set.

[Clarky]

Our guitarist/front-man used to be really bad at that. One of our highest profile gigs (Bridge House, Canning Town with 999) was wrecked by his tuning problems and it was the only time we got audience murmurs and a bad write-up. Fortunately he has since bought himself a guitar that stays in tune better - maybe thats the solution?

[The Burpster]

No excuse for it in my eyes with all the tech thats available - Makes then look very amatuerish too!

[Bass Behemoth]

If a guitarist can't stay in tune for more than one song then there needs to be some serious gear changes made, imho. If they absolutely HAVE to tune up, it must be silent and take no longer than the time the singer needs to plug the album/merch/whatever. The moment anything interrupts the flow of the set it becomes the whole bands problem and needs to be addressed, if someone feels they are above that then THEY become the bands problem and need addressing!!

[Les]

I suppose if you need to tune you need to tune. But you need to keep your audience however you do it.

I've played guitar (badly) in a couple of outfits over the years and never really had that kind of problem. Only had cheapish guitars as well, begs the question is it bad set up or is it just comfort tuning ie, checking rather than fixing a real life problem ?

[JTUK]

We have keys and guitars and they use a LOT of presets. The band is new and the songs need this and both do it quietly but not quickly. Hoping that they get quicker at it.

I think the front man/vocals should engage the audience at this time.... but that isn't happening either. It does halt the flow of things.

Edited March 21, 2010 by JTUK

[jezzaboy]

Our guitarist has a Gibson les paul studio and he re-tunes it after every, yes every, song. I have mentioned about taking it to a guitar tech as there is something wrong with it but it falls on deaf ears. It`s so bad that the singer makes a joke of it now. Having said that, he`s always in tune!

Jez

[casapete]

Get him some heavier strings..............

[chris_b]

If anyone tunes up between every number then their instrument has a problem and they should get it fixed.

The tuning could be just a bad habit and they should listen when told to stop it!

Start the next number with out them.

Fine them £5 every time they tune up, except for the first time.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Spike Vincent' post='781556' date='Mar 21 2010, 12:04 PM']Shoot them?[/quote]
hahaha, that was the first thing that came to mind

There are no excuses for tuning audibly. None.

Guitars do go out of tune, depending on the player and the guitar, but they need to manage this properly.

A big problem is with inexperienced guitarists who press down to hard on their strings when playing chords, so their guitar will never be in tune, especially with open string chords. It's a nightmare. Tuning is a bit of an art. So you probably need a full and frank with the guitarist.

[BigRedX]

I don't know what the problem is exactly. The guitars being used are all good quality and one of the guitarists is a rep for a well known musical instrument distributor and knows his stuff when it comes to set up. They said it was to do with the heat on stage and I have to admit that it was pretty hot up there, but I didn't have any problems at all. Personally I think that they're both being too picky about the tuning. Now that someone other than me has said it and how crap it looked hopefully it will get addressed. I'm going to bring it up again at the next rehearsal, and say that they need to sort it out, I don't care how, but it needs to be done before the next gig.

Interestingly, I'd seen the band play several times before I became their bassist, and this tuning issue never seemed to crop up before...

BTW the complaint wasn't about audible tuning. They both have good quality pedals that mute their guitars while they are tuning. It was about the length of time it took and the fact that they did it between almost every number.

Edited March 21, 2010 by BigRedX

[OldGit]

[quote name='JTUK' post='781572' date='Mar 21 2010, 12:17 PM']We have keys and guitars and they use a LOT of presets. The band is new and the songs need this and both do it quietly but not quickly. Hoping that they get quicker at it.

I think the front man/vocals should engage the audience at this time.... but that isn't happening either. It does halt the flow of things.[/quote]


Try that "holding patten" thing. It takes away the big hole where the front person thinks they have to speak..... If tehre's a beat going there's less of an obvious pause.

Rehearse the front person's talkie bits too, and where they come in teh set. Just as valid and important as rehearsing the guitar solos IMHO and will have a much bigger impact on the sucess of the group as a whole.

[Musicman69]

Our guitarists both have Les Pauls, top of the range ones too but they constantly tune (albeit silently) between every song.
I think its just 'comfort tuning' as someone mentioned because we start each half of set with 5 songs together and they dont go out then. In fact Ive never heard either guitar out a bit! Its an OCD thing.

[xilddx]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='781594' date='Mar 21 2010, 12:45 PM']I don't know what the problem is exactly. The guitars being used are all good quality and one of the guitarists is a rep for a well known musical instrument distributor and knows his stuff when it comes to set up. They said it was to do with the heat on stage and I have to admit that it was pretty hot up there, but I didn't have any problems at all. Personally I think that they're both being too picky about the tuning. Now that someone other than me has said it and how crap it looked hopefully it will get addressed. I'm going to bring it up again at the next rehearsal, and say that they need to sort it out, I don't care how, but it needs to be done before the next gig.

Interestingly, I'd seen the band play several times before I became their bassist, and this tuning issue never seemed to crop up before...

BTW the complaint wasn't about audible tuning. They both have good quality pedals that mute their guitars while they are tuning. It was about the length of time it took and the fact that they did it between almost every number.[/quote]

Whatever, it's a problem that needs sorting, it's unacceptable.

Stage heat? Make sure the guitars are acclimatised. It's not a problem for 99% of other bands.

[SteveK]

[quote]Guitarist tunes between numbers - what to do?[/quote]
Probably has less to do with tuning, and more to do with nerves.

[xilddx]

[quote name='SteveK' post='781610' date='Mar 21 2010, 12:57 PM']Probably has less to do with tuning, and more to do with nerves.[/quote]
Good point, if they are nervous.

String stretching before the gig helps a lot too.

[MacDaddy]

when I was teaching, I used to encourage and work on little tricks and party pieces, so that during a gig if there was such a gap then step forward the bass player and entertain the crowd for 30 seconds or so. As I was working with rock/metal bassists it worked quite well.

[Musicman69]

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='781623' date='Mar 21 2010, 01:11 PM']when I was teaching, I used to encourage and work on little tricks and party pieces, so that during a gig if there was such a gap then step forward the bass player and entertain the crowd for 30 seconds or so. As I was working with rock/metal bassists it worked quite well.[/quote]

Yes but with all due respect, people pay in to a gig to hear and see live music.. not tricks or party pieces.

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='Musicman69' post='781627' date='Mar 21 2010, 01:17 PM']Yes but with all due respect, people pay in to a gig to hear and see live music.. not tricks or party pieces.[/quote]

that's the point though isn't it?

[b]there isn't any music happening[/b] - guitarists tuning etc - so it's all about keeping the punters entertained and trying not to lose the momentum.

[Musicman20]

Polytune and a guitar setup. I really dont understand how a £1.5k Gibson can go out of tune so often, but then again Gibson's QC is terrible recently.

Its strange how basses seem to just 'stay' in tune. I can put my Precisions in a padded gig bag, get on the Train, exposing it to different temperatures, then open it at the practice room and its spot on.

[bartelby]

This is obviously the answer to it all:

[url="http://www.gibson.com/robotguitar/"]Gibson Robot Guitar[/url]

[Sibob]

Depends what strings he's using and how hard he hits them I guess!?
What would you prefer?, playing a song with an out of tune guitarist?.....To be honest, the singer should be able to fill in with banter IMO!

Si

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='bartelby' post='781637' date='Mar 21 2010, 01:29 PM']This is obviously the answer to it all:

[url="http://www.gibson.com/robotguitar/"]Gibson Robot Guitar[/url][/quote]

Our guitarist in JWP is seriously looking into these. He has real problems with tuning and even with a guitar tech tuning his guitars while he uses spares, he spends a lot of time swapping about. The rest of us keep the crowd going but it does take too long (though respect to him, he's aware of it and trying to fix it).

There are a lot of things that help with tuning (all of which he's tried, so they don't always work).

Less wraps of the string around the tuning pegs.
Tune up to the note, never down.
Make the string as long as possible (On les paul style guitars, feed the string through the bridge from the pickup side, then wrap it around the bridge before it goes over the saddle for example).
Make sure the strings go on a day or more before a gig and make sure they're played in a little bit (not too much if you want them to sound fresh).
Thicker strings.
Getting the correct technique with hitting the strings,
Making sure the guitar is set up properly (especially with trems).
Certain strings are more prone to going out of tune than others.

I'd welcome any more suggestions though because Joe is seriously looking at getting one of the robot guitars and if we can try more things before he forks out for one, it might save him several hundred £s.

[TRadford]

The guitarist from a band who I did some touring with 2 years ago had one of the first Robot guitar pre production units to try out. Gibson gave it to him to try because they were playing 2 solid weeks of 3 hour sets. He was well impressed with it. No issues of tuning up during songs at all, just a twist of a knob and the whole guitar tunes to whatever you want.