More than 4?

[gypsymoth]

I kinda understand it when guitar players with sensitive toes try to put limits on what is a bass or bass player, and their role - but I really don't get it when someone who plays a bass puts similiar limitations on other bass players.

it's a bit like, ohh, charlie watts saying ginger baker isn't a real drummer. right.

[fusionbassist1]

my only thing to contribute to this debate is that in my eyes bass is a role rather than an instrument with 'x' amount of strings or 'x' amounts of frets. As long as you're playing lower than the melody instruments and contributing some bass frequencies to the mix then i honestly don't care what's producing these sounds. it's then down to the tone you want, whether that be a synthetic keyboard like bass sound, bass guitar, tuba etc is up to you. If high notes is what you want then in the same way it shouldn't matter what kind of instrument is making the sounds. it's a fact that at the higher frets of even four string bass guitars you're starting to dabble in guitar freq territory but you don't hear people complaining about that on such a level either. the higher notes on a 6 string or 5 string with a top 'C' could be played much easier on an electric guitar so if that's ALL you're going to play on your '6 string bass guitar' then i think you're making more work for your self. if someone wants the tone that a 50 string 'bass' has at higher register then that's up to them and tbh if someone wants to be able to play guitar style licks occasionally and still be able to go right down to a low B then I can't imagine an instrument more convinient than the 6 string bass.

In most comercial atmospheres the look is equally as important aswell, can you really see the spice girls coming on stage soon with the bassplayer waving a 12 string beast, the guitarist being on a 8 string thing and the guitarist having a huge drum dome??? of course not, image is equally as important if not more so than the music they pump out. you can factor that into why you don't see so many ERB players on MTV i think.

Anyone's opinions on what I said would be very interesting for me o read through

[6stringbassist]

[quote name='fusionbassist1' post='86550' date='Nov 10 2007, 05:47 PM']my only thing to contribute to this debate is that in my eyes bass is a role rather than an instrument with 'x' amount of strings or 'x' amounts of frets. As long as you're playing lower than the melody instruments and contributing some bass frequencies to the mix then i honestly don't care what's producing these sounds. it's then down to the tone you want, whether that be a synthetic keyboard like bass sound, bass guitar, tuba etc is up to you. If high notes is what you want then in the same way it shouldn't matter what kind of instrument is making the sounds. it's a fact that at the higher frets of even four string bass guitars you're starting to dabble in guitar freq territory but you don't hear people complaining about that on such a level either. Anyone's opinions on what I said would be very interesting for me o read through [/quote]

True, in fact anything higher than Eb (6th fret on the A string) is a note that's also on a guitar.

And why do bassplayers who choose to play a 4 string, appear so smug about it when posting their comments on this sort of thread.

[fusionbassist1]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='86567' date='Nov 10 2007, 06:13 PM']True, in fact anything higher than Eb (6th fret on the A string) is a note that's also on a guitar.

And why do bassplayers who choose to play a 4 string, appear so smug about it when posting their comments on this sort of thread.[/quote]

was that aimed at me by any chance??

i play four.....never played any mroe than that either...

Edited November 10, 2007 by fusionbassist1

[6stringbassist]

[quote name='fusionbassist1' post='86569' date='Nov 10 2007, 06:18 PM']was that aimed at me by any chance??

i play four.....never played any mroe than that either...[/quote]

No, definately not, I didn't know what you played.

It's just my observation from looking at the numerous other threads like this, either here or on Talkbass.

There are a few other replies earlier on in the thread though that come over a bit like that, kind of like the punk thing back in the 70's, where they openly bragged about not being able to play their instruments.....not that I'm saying that about anyone on here, but to me when someone, especially another musician, and a bassplayer as well starts to be deprecating about ERBs, I just find it wierd.

I agree with what you've said, that's why I quoted you, sorry if I came across wrong.

[fusionbassist1]

no worries .

I agree about the punk thing, it's like if a punk was bragging about how he can't play his/her instrument it's moving away from what should be the focus ie the music. It shouldn't matter is someone plays a one string bass (and they do exist) or a 12 string (and i'm sure there's basses with more than that...) - the aim is to make music, forget the rest.

This convo just got a bit Victor Wooten on everyone's arse so i'll let someone else get a word in now guys.

[lee4]

I'll just put my bit in;I've tried a 5 but just did not feel comfy with it so I'm happy to stick to 4's.
As for bass players 'noodling' and straying into guitar players shoes,if it fits the song and can be done tastefully,why not.

[The Burpster]

Although we seem to air the ERB topic every now and then, I still find it a bit odd in the 21st century that it appears ok to some to stereotype something that doesnt appeal to them as wrong.......

I mean whats next? someone will come on and post a thread stating Black bass players should stick to playing funk and blues?

(just try it.....)

If you dont understand ERB thats fine, I dont understand drummers! I respect them and I work with them but I dont say they are wrong!

You enjoy staying inside the boundries of 4 string... thats fine, but dont say others choices are wrong because they are not your choices .......

Lets put this in perspective, if Col Parker hadnt stuck his neck on the line recording a truck driver with no band, would we have what we have now? or would it still be suits, 4 peice bands and commercial drivel rammed down our throats by a dominant (corrupt) music industry?

Rant over.....

[Bassclef]

Hi folks. For what it's worth, I'm strictly 4-string too. I can see what is attractive about being able to get higher or lower notes, but in my opinion extra strings can encourage left-hand laziness, and wider necks are so unappealing to play.

If I was going to change from 4 strings, I'd actually go for fewer! Some early classical basses actually had three strings, tuned 7 semitones apart. This combination was supposedly a very versatile one. The Japanese company Atlansia offer a 2-string bass. Why don't some top players adopt the minimalist approach? I suppose most of them are too busy trying to sound like guitarists.

[The Burpster]

^^^ Nice clean fight please....!

No kicking, elbows, gouging, biting, punching below the belt or general roodness.....

Gentlemen, Seconds out, round one!

Clang clang....

[ped]

Wake me up if this ever needs moderating chaps, ta

[ARGH]

ACTUALLY Ive just really thought about it....

Woah...really hard


And I dont give a flying f***......

If anyone wants to make an ill informed statement about what they think Bassplaying is/isnt/should be,and base that on what they have never seen,cant hear,wont hear,dont know..or what ERBs are all about from the few Jean Baudin/Carbonne NAMM vids or GBCs signiture 9 string..or the Al Caldwell midi solo in a church,or the old "Ive never seen one or need one" (www.extendedrangebassist.com ....you can find jazzers,rockers.Deathmetalists,soul,gospel,funk,D'n'B,world,Ambient or the just plain mental on there) and the chestnut "Anyone who plays one has a small penis' or something just as sexually immature (Oh f***ing grow up you sad little pissbag)..or "You must think your SOOOOOO great!" (Jealous bastard hahahahahahaha)..or "If you cant do it on 4..."(I dont want to do it anymore on a 4..Ive done it on a 4 for years,and its getting boring...)....or the fact 'IVE never seen one in my pubs open mic night' and use that as a sound basis to make a grand statement of fact......


WE...I ......DONT HAVE TO JUSTIFY ANYTHING!


I play Bass...My newest is bigger...it reaches lower ....it also reaches higher..its scale is 35" and can be tapped like a stick and plucked like the traditional 4 stringed instrument (of which I have several....both fretted and fretless). Positional playing never killed anybody,the notes are still there if you want them

what more can I say....

WE PLAY ALL STYLES,WE PLAY MORE STRINGS

GET
OVER
IT*

(goes back to practicing)















The above was aimed at nobody...just you...reader

Edited November 10, 2007 by ARGH

[Alpha-Dave]

I'm not going to take a side here (other than saying across 2 basses I have a 7 string range ), but in the music section of the museum of Geneva there are instruments that are hundreds of years old, look like upright basses, but have frets and 6+ strings!!

I should be going back in the next couple of months so I'll try to find out more.

[bass_ferret]

No-ones mentioned willys yet Ross.

Dont think anyone has even said its wrong to play an ERB although a few have suggested its pointless.

What gets me though like the NAMM clip posted earlier is that there is no actual bass playing. All the notes off the scale for a 4 string seem to be up not down. Just an observation.

[bass_ferret]

[quote name='Alpha-Dave' post='86653' date='Nov 10 2007, 09:16 PM']I'm not going to take a side here (other than saying across 2 basses I have a 7 string range ), but in the music section of the museum of Geneva there are instruments that are hundreds of years old, look like upright basses, but have frets and 6+ strings!!

I should be going back in the next couple of months so I'll try to find out more.[/quote]
Early bass viols had 6 strings and frets made of gut tied round the neck for the lowest 7 semi-tones (15th to 17th Century). The standard 4 string orchestral bass tuned EADG only became the standard early last century.

[lee4]

[quote name='The Burpster' post='86635' date='Nov 10 2007, 08:31 PM']^^^ Nice clean fight please....!

No kicking, elbows, gouging, biting, punching below the belt or general roodness.....

Gentlemen, Seconds out, round one!

Clang clang....

[/quote]
Time for a little live and let live I think.We are all bass players.Pleas do'nt condemn those who feel the need for more than 4(wierdo's)

[fusionbassist1]

thought I'd throw this in..........bassplayer magazine apaprently didn't believe jaco's portrait of tracy was a bass guitar when they first heard it and jaco still gets stick for being different even though he's been dead for 20 years, despite this he still won the '07 readers poll for best bassplayer of all time. change DOES happen, it's a question if you want to be a part of that group of people pushing the boat out a bit.

I'm all for it,like argh said - ERB players shouldn't feel the need to justify anything and mabye some of these people didn't stop so too much to think about why they want more strings; the sad person in that equation is the person who sat for hours at home in front of a pc trying to think of reasons why what they're doing isn't cool.

In the self explanitory words of zappa "shut up 'n' play yer guitar".

now i'm going to go to bed. It's a good debate so I hope no one throws something completely un-pc or starts having personal diggs at people (the penis thing is very very immature btw so don't try it).

[ARGH]

[quote name='fusionbassist1' post='86701' date='Nov 10 2007, 11:05 PM']It's a good debate so I hope no one throws something completely un-pc or starts having personal diggs at people (the penis thing is very very immature btw so don't try it).[/quote]

Should have been here last year mate....

[ARGH]

[url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BlpuHANE_SQ"]<a href="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BlpuHANE_SQ" target="_blank">http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BlpuHANE_SQ[/url]</a>
[url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BD1Y9zQooyY"]<a href="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BD1Y9zQooyY" target="_blank">http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BD1Y9zQooyY[/url]</a>
[url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=udAM1geNFdA"]<a href="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=udAM1geNFdA" target="_blank">http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=udAM1geNFdA[/url]</a>

This is Shawn,He plays a Conklin Sidewinder and tunes to F sharp,plays low an also taps and on occasion slaps and plays high up the neck....

For the uninformed and those frightend of anything that appears after the 9pm watershed or IS heavily influenced by www.safeandunoffensivetradionaldonttryanythingdifferent.com, this is a thing called Deathmetal.....its an extreme form of metallic music you WILL hate,because "Its toooo noisey and rumbley..and sounds horrid"....yes WELL DONE,guess what.......

I love it and have done for years

Its a horrible set of recordings but if he or it was all clear and up high it would sound like a guitar ...right?....but hes..playing Bass.. using those nasty horrible bottom strings those lower than B......... ... making music that requires...A DIFFERENT AND NON TRADITIONAL WAY OF PLAYING THE SAME f***ing INSTRUMENT WE ALL PLAY IN A DIFFERENT AND NON TRADITIONAL FASHION.....But hang on he isnt soloing all the time,or on a NAMM vid or playing a Mario theme tune....or...oh...wheres the novelty element....sh*t hes being....A BASSPLAYER...quick think of some???....thing..ANYTHING to slag it off....oh the 'singer' sounds in pain......they play aggressively.....I HATE METAL ITS WHAT KIDS PLAY!!!!
ITS NOT WHAT I LIKE....oh boo hoo

Oh well we cant win can we,you tossers

Its an ERB in a band situation...its..however unclear on the recordings.. its a musician using such an instrument to its complete potential,If it was on a 4 or 5 you wouldnt blink,He just happens to be doing it in a way,his way,in a style of music...in a BAND ...on an instrument you are just to pig ignorant or just plain thick to understand/accept......


"OH but hes just one example I dont see you with any others..."

Pi55 off,I could dig up a million examples and you just wont get it..look harder..listen more




(Goes back to practice)


















That good enough for ya OG?

Edited November 11, 2007 by The Burpster

[bnt]

Porphyria? Porphyria?? What kind of band name is that? Sheesh... what's next: "Cancer"? "Leprosy"? "Anthrax"?

[Guest MoJo]

The only observation I could make watching Shaun from those video clips was, yes he plays high up the neck on occasion and taps notes but on the lower strings. I didn't see an example in those clips where he used the extended high range of the instrument and everything he played could be played on a suitably set-up five string.

I once bought a six string bass at the Crane's Of Swansea stand at Music Live. I was looking for a five but couldn't believe the specs of this six for the money they were asking (£375). When playing it in our band I remember one time when a male member of the audience brought his Son up to the front saying, "look a six string bass, this guy must know how to play". There's a certain kudos that goes with multi-string basses and this may or may not be the case with Shaun.

I soon realised that I never used the two extra strings and sold it on. I play two four strings in my metal band, one in drop D the other BEAD and that's all the range I need. I could use a five string and indeed do own one but I feel more comfortable playing a four.

[ARGH]

Well then its the audience member thats at fault,for believing the stigma....kudos is kudos,yes I admit Im suffering from what I call the

"f***me factor"

No-ones seen 1 of these things before,maybe only in pictures or on the web.......hell I think saw a 7 once,but that I think was in London,maybe I never did,saying that Ive never seen a Stick in the flesh,not for the want of trying mind,but its not a priority in my life...I remember great intakes of breath from musos in shops when I used to ask for a 6 string set in shops,followed by a comment...usually either derogatory or in interest,and it was a mild buzz to know you were one of 5 others in the city (The Packs were always covered in dust and hidden in the back,proof they were not asked for much,but so what)

Saying that,if I was total utter sh*t,do you think I,or anyone,would want an ERB?

If you purchase any instrument with the the intent to impress by mear ownership alone (Vintage freaks take note..yes that includes you 4 stringers) then its a peacock buy innit? "Oh look what I have..."...3 grand on a souped up whatever or a total one off custom,if you aint gonna put the effort in and play it,its a waste of time. And the only people impressed are your mates and sad f***s on the internet.


Quit nitpicking trads

(goes back to practicing)

Edited November 11, 2007 by ARGH

[bass_ferret]

Calm down Ross - I know you are excited about your 9 string.

But I think the clips posted so far indicate the real problem with ERBs - all the music made on them that gets posted on You Tube is rubbish. Plus the fact that you are gonna listen to it on headphones or crappy PC speakers and its gonna sound even more rubbish. That Death Metal sounded like normal metal just two octaves lower - and did they have 2 bass players? Whatever! On my 'phones it sounded like sludge.

[ARGH]

[quote name='bnt' post='86756' date='Nov 11 2007, 02:38 AM']Porphyria? Porphyria?? What kind of band name is that? Sheesh... what's next: "Cancer"? "Leprosy"? "Anthrax"? [/quote]


Amputated,Spastik ink,DEATH (brilliant band I might add),Sodom,Destroyer666,Immolation......yeah all your fave hits and MTV superstars

[bass_ferret]

There is more to Music TV than MTV. What about Kerang TV? What time is the Death Metal slot?