Are all vocalists like this.....?

[Krysbass]

The rock covers band I’m in played at a music pub in Congleton, Cheshire last August. It went well enough that straight away we were offered two more bookings for February and June this year. The landlord there has since also provided references for us to other venues, getting us bookings elsewhere.

About 10 days before the February gig (this having been booked with us for 6 months by then) our vocalist e-mailed us all, saying he’d let himself get double-booked and couldn’t do the gig. It later emerged that with it being the Valentines’ day weekend he’d set up a romantic escapade with his girlfriend which he deemed more important than ditching the gig and badly letting down his band-mates and the best venue we play.

As a result, we had to go to the landlord of the venue, apologise and find another band to stand in for us, to try and minimise the inconvenience. But we now feel we can’t ask for any more references from that landlord, at least until after the gig in June, when hopefully we’ll have been able to redeem ourselves.

Our vocalist apologised to us all for his oversight, promised to “make it up” to us (this has yet to happen) and be more aware of our calendar in future (this has also yet to happen). Roll on to yesterday and we were due to have one of our regular Wednesday rehearsals – this particular one being the last before we play a gig this Saturday. Yesterday morning the vocalist e-mails us all saying something’s come up and he can’t make rehearsal. No reference was made to Saturday’s gig in his e-mail which made me a bit nervous, so we asked if he was still OK for the gig, only for him to admit that he had, in fact, totally forgotten about it, but that fortunately he would be available for it. (Oh, we are so honoured!)

Needless to say, if we hadn’t double-checked with him, we’d have been at the venue on Saturday, gear set up and raring to go, but with no vocalist. The venue has a bit of a rep as a rough place so I wouldn’t like to have had to tell the landlord and a pub full of well-oiled punters that the band is going home, because the vocalist has forgotten to turn up!

We’re now all pretty p****d off with this guy. He just seems so laid back and easy-going that adhering to any sort of regime or schedule goes against the grain with him. I've come across similar traits (though nowhere as bad as this) in other vocalists I've worked with, so is this sort of attitude typical among those of a vocalist/frontman persuasion – especially since bassists have a reputation for being the most organised member of a band?

Personally, I enjoy playing bass so much that every gig and rehearsal date is indelibly etched in my memory – so I can’t begin to understand why someone who claims to enjoy singing isn’t focused in a similar way.

Sorry this has become a bit of an essay, but I already feel strangely better having got all that off my chest. As always – comments/views welcome.

[Happy Jack]

Sack him.

Next?

[woodyratm]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='785722' date='Mar 25 2010, 12:35 PM']Sack him.

Next?[/quote]

I agree.

[The Bass Doc]

You only have to know how a vocalist warms up to sing.......Doh, ray, me, me, me, ME, ME, ME, ME......

[Krysbass]

[quote name='woodyratm' post='785724' date='Mar 25 2010, 12:36 PM']I agree.[/quote]

Got to admit that the 2 x guitarists and myself only agreed last night that he's now had 2 strikes - one more and he's out!

[Ray]

This is why my main band is primarily instrumental and only occasionally feature guest singers.

A project I was involved in dissolved just last week because of similar situation. If you and the rest of the guys are seriously commited to the band then I'd consider finding a new singer.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Krysbass' post='785730' date='Mar 25 2010, 12:40 PM']2 strikes - one more and he's out! [/quote]
Line up a replacement first.

[Alastair]

Also you should probably give him fair warning, see if he can't see his way to being a bit more time/commitment concious.

[Krysbass]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='785735' date='Mar 25 2010, 12:46 PM']Line up a replacement first. [/quote]

That's why he wasn't shown the door after the first incident - with gigs booked there's inevitably never quite enough time to fire him then get someone else lined up. Maybe we'd better take your advice - before we let anyone else down.

In the meantime, the rest of us have agreed to repeat a list of all our upcoming gig dates ate the foot of every single e-mail we send, in the hope that this helps him get with the plot.

[bassbloke]

It's not a singer problem, per se, but a musician problem in general.

Google offer a free online calendar or set up a private Facebook Group for everyone and add all of your rehearsals and gigs to whichever you choose to use.

Not everyone is as organised as they should be, but with the right tools hassling people about upcoming events, there's no excuse for not turning up.

[The Funk]

[quote name='Krysbass' post='785721' date='Mar 25 2010, 12:33 PM']We’re now all pretty p****d off with this guy. He just seems so laid back and easy-going that adhering to any sort of regime or schedule goes against the grain with him. I've come across similar traits (though nowhere as bad as this) in other vocalists I've worked with, so is this sort of attitude typical among those of a vocalist/frontman persuasion – especially since bassists have a reputation for being the most organised member of a band?[/quote]

There are three types of musicians:
1. the laid-back, easy-going types who have no memory, work ethic, sense of priorities or urgency;
2. the control-freak dictator types who have a delusional sense of self-worth;
3. the small minority of musicians who aren't impossible to work with.

[skampino]

My band have been in this position several times with drummers so from experience I've learned that these self-centred people never change. In fact they get worse when you talk nicely and give them a 2nd chance. You reinforce their belief that they are indispensable!
Find a replacement and dump on him from above. Why should you feel guilty when he has shown you no consideration whatsoever. It might take time but in the long run you will feel much happier with someone as committed as you.
Good luck!

[skampino]

[quote name='The Funk' post='785766' date='Mar 25 2010, 01:06 PM']There are three types of musicians:
1. the laid-back, easy-going types who have no memory, work ethic, sense of priorities or urgency;
2. the control-freak dictator types who have a delusional sense of self-worth;
3. the small minority of musicians who aren't impossible to work with.[/quote]

I'd like to add one more to that:
4) the lazy type who contributes zilch but wants all the glory when performing live.

[cheddatom]

There's no point to "three strikes and you're out" if you don't tell him he's struck!

[The inglourious bass turd]

What do you call a guy who hangs around with a bunch of musicians?

The vocalist...........

[fatback]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='785801' date='Mar 25 2010, 01:34 PM']There's no point to "three strikes and you're out" if you don't tell him he's struck![/quote]

Unless he's a massive talent, line up a replacement, then sack him.

Don't wait for the next screw up.

[Geddys nose]

Believe me he won't change just move on...

[Tait]

i'd say definatly find another singer before you sack him. my band has always had a lead guitarist/vocalist, but he's now decided he only wants to play guitar. we're looking for another singer, and its an absolute nightmare. at least we have him singing for now, until we find someone new.

[Marvin]

He sounds like one those disorganised fellows. He'll never change, it's either put up with him, try to 'organise' him (which basically means reminding him every minute of the day when practice and gigs are) or replace him.

[jonny-lad]

IME, it's best to start looking for a replacement as soon as it's clear there are any ongoing problems...If you wait for a third strike, you're more likely to get caught out and have to cancel gigs because you're stuck without a singer.

Furthermore, if he's not that bothered about honouring the gigs, he's probably not that bothered about the band in general, and could easily decide to leave of his own accord...probably without much notice, which would leave you in a similarly bad position.

[beastie]

I had the same prolem with a drummer last year he decided to go to france for a dirty weekend and we had to pull out of a festival once they do something like that you have to question there commitment we gave our drummer another chance he said he was sorry and said it wont happen again we then booked a studio session with a months notice and he then phoned us a week before telling us he was going to new zeland sacked him straight away had to council 6 gigs +the studio time and then spent 5 months looking for another drummer
but we now have a band with full commitment it does not work unless you all are singing from the same tree
Gary

[Krysbass]

Thanks for all the advice - it's good to get a wider perspective on things like this.

We've had an exchange of e-mails with him spelling out that if he screws up another gig then that's it - I just hope that after assuring us he'll be at the gig on Saturday, he doesn't choose that one to screw up again! Still; if that happens, none of us need to feel bad when we tell him it's over.

One of the reasons I'm still gigging at 48 is to escape the stresses of my day job, and most of the time that works really well, but this guy is now making my work seem like a breeze in comparison.

[Cat Burrito]

Warning L.S.D. alert - not the drug, Lead Singer Diesease. It affects far too many bands.

Trust me, you can do better - ditch him

[JTUK]

[quote name='Krysbass' post='786121' date='Mar 25 2010, 06:01 PM']Thanks for all the advice - it's good to get a wider perspective on things like this.

We've had an exchange of e-mails with him spelling out that if he screws up another gig then that's it - I just hope that after assuring us he'll be at the gig on Saturday, he doesn't choose that one to screw up again! Still; if that happens, none of us need to feel bad when we tell him it's over.

One of the reasons I'm still gigging at 48 is to escape the stresses of my day job, and most of the time that works really well, but this guy is now making my work seem like a breeze in comparison.[/quote]

I was going to say that you should ..gently..warn him about the 3 strikes thing as if he has any sort of delusions of worth, he may well say stuff it, anyway.

But then, you mentioned the age thing and I assume he is about that sort of age as well...?
Well, he isn't going to change and he can't grow out of it so you have done the best thing which is give him one last chance.

I still think he will stuff up sooner or later, so if you have someone else in mind, prep them and maybe get them in instead.
Of course, everyone has bigger priorities and sometimese they do have to come first but you should be getting the message about the level of commit each member has...

I'd be thinking this line-up has run its course, though..and any more time gotten out of it is a bonus.

Of course, you could all lighten up and restate your band objectives in a meeting and reschedule the amount of work you do or want..bla bla etc etc ... You do indeed all need to be on the same wavelenght as a group.

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

You could do a cover of 'head like a hole' by nin , but he may not like that.
Just get rid of him,and move on..