Are all vocalists like this.....?

[OldGit]

One of the members of one of the bands I play in and organise gigs for asked me to email him and his wife on regular basis re gig dates, status of un confirmed enquiries, etc because he had a problem keeping his work, personal, family and wife's diary all synced....

I suggested he get his own damn sheeeeeeeet together as, as far as I know, I am not his mother or PA...

It worked but I do still make sure he has all the details of each gig a month and a week beforehand.

[Krysbass]

[quote name='JTUK' post='786221' date='Mar 25 2010, 07:32 PM']But then, you mentioned the age thing and I assume he is about that sort of age as well...?
Well, he isn't going to change and he can't grow out of it so you have done the best thing which is give him one last chance.

I still think he will stuff up sooner or later, so if you have someone else in mind, prep them and maybe get them in instead.
Of course, everyone has bigger priorities and sometimese they do have to come first but you should be getting the message about the level of commit each member has...

I'd be thinking this line-up has run its course, though..and any more time gotten out of it is a bonus.[/quote]

To be honest, only 3 of us are in our 40's; the vocalist and drummer are both in their mid-20's and for the 13 months this line-up has been together, the mix of ages has worked well.

But what I don't get is that our vocalist is unmarried and he works for his dad’s company, so I would imagine he has a relatively easy ride in his work life. I’m married, with 2 young sons and my work is extremely demanding, based some 25 miles from home – so I have a lot more things to juggle in my life to allow me to fit in my commitments to the band. But I rarely struggle to do this (it’s entirely down to planning and being organised), so I fail to understand why our vocalist has so many problems.

The vocalist clearly enjoys what he does when he's on stage, but when he's doing whatever he does with the rest of his life he seems to totally switch off from what's going on with the band. For a few months, we've even had an intranet site that we can all access, to double-check gig dates among other things - so he's really got no excuse. As of today, we're adding all the upcoming gig dates to all our band e-mails in attempt to keep him up to speed.

If this guy goes, I'm not sure I'd want to pursue this project any further anyway - I'd probably draw a line under it and look for something new (though there's probably not much call for 48 yo bassists in Cheshire - or anywhere else for that matter! ) I think I'll see how the gig goes tomorrow night and then ask for a band meeting to talk about what's been going on - we clearly can't go on like this.

[The Funk]

If you're not organised, your life will fall apart. Your vocalist's life, however, is all worked out for him.

[OldGit]

[quote name='The Funk' post='786862' date='Mar 26 2010, 12:45 PM']If you're not organised, your life will fall apart. Your vocalist's life, however, is all worked out for him.[/quote]

Once again Mr Funk has hit the nail on the head.

[Krysbass]

[quote name='The Funk' post='786862' date='Mar 26 2010, 12:45 PM']If you're not organised, your life will fall apart. Your vocalist's life, however, is all worked out for him.[/quote]

Absolutely! - he strikes me as one of those lucky (and very annoying) individuals that has never had to truly take responsibility for anything - I've a feeling the rest of his life is destined to go the same way.

[ThomBassmonkey]

It's not just a singer thing. My band once turned up to a gig and were there for a few hours and finally we were due to go on stage and had no drummer still.

Turns out he'd forgotten to mention that he was going on Holiday and was skiing in France while we were trying to get hold of him.

Luckily (if you could call it that) we hadn't been able to get in contact with him over the last week anyway and knew what he was like so we had acoustic instruments at the ready for the gig.

Edited March 26, 2010 by ThomBassmonkey

[Conan]

Sounds like a simple cost vs benefit analysis to me. What is this guy worth to you? How good a singist is he? Could you easily replace him with someone equally as good?

Arguments about things like this can tear bands apart. I would suggest that you need a proper band meeting to clear the air and sort stuff out. E-mail is ok for mundane communication, but this all sounds a bit too serious to be dealt with by e-mail!

If he lets you down again, the reputation of the whole band could be ruined for good. Is he worth that hassle?

Of course, it's dead easy advising other bands what to do, but its much harder when you are actually involved. We've all been there!

[cameltoe]

It's not just singers, it's all kinds of musicians.

Our singer just likes to ask for more monitor constantly, untill there's so much monitor he can't hear himself and all we can hear is him. Then he still asks for more monitor.

We have a similar situation with our fiddle player. Never says Yes or No to gigs, just mysterious comments like 'it's all good'. He's cancelled gigs at short notice in the past for feeble reasons (and reasons that could have been avoided had he been more organised) and I reckon he never truly confirms gigs in case he needs to pull out again. With him it's just that he's henpecked by his Mrs, which means if she wants him to do something else, he has to do it. It would be a lot easier if he just told her when his gigs where so she could see when he was busy. As it is, he keeps us both in the dark and hopes the two never clash. Which they have and probably will again. He never used to help pack any gear away either, just grabbed his fiddle once the gig finished and buggered off. We had words about that though. The main problem is his playing. He's tone deaf, and pitches all over the place. Not good. We're looking to replace him though, so it's 'all good' for us.

Seriously though, I reckon a lot of these problems are caused by the 'other half' and the musician not having the balls to stand up to them.

Edited March 26, 2010 by cameltoe

[skampino]

[quote name='Krysbass' post='786856' date='Mar 26 2010, 12:41 PM']If this guy goes, I'm not sure I'd want to pursue this project any further anyway - I'd probably draw a line under it and look for something new (though there's probably not much call for 48 yo bassists in Cheshire - or anywhere else for that matter! ) I think I'll see how the gig goes tomorrow night and then ask for a band meeting to talk about what's been going on - we clearly can't go on like this.[/quote]

Mate I would still be looking for a replacement. now you've given him a final warning, he will probably be looking for another band!
AND....don't give up on your band; the other guys seem to be ok. Finding a vocalist will be a lot easier than finding a band without problem members!

[JTUK]

wow..!!! a tone deaf fiddle player... That is a nightmare...

Re the mid 20's vocalist...he is just not that into you.. as a band.
Explain the rules diplomatically and then act if it happens again, thats it..

The over 50's muso scene round here is pretty big...as far as I can see.
I would say there are a few 60's plus guys still doing it... and no reason why not, really.
They have all the best gear as well...

[skampino]

Unless you are very lucky there will be COLLATERAL DAMAGE before you find all the right members to make a stable band.
NEVER COMPROMISE YOURSELF TO KEEP SOMEONE WHO ISN'T COMMITTED - they will control the band and you won't be happy.
NO-ONE IS INREPLACEABLE! It just takes a bit of time, effort and advertising.
In the past 6 yrs, my band have been through 5 bass players and 10 drummers and 1 vocalist! Hard at times but there are deps out there until you find replacements....use them!

[MB1]

MB1.
...Are all Vocalists like this?....What?... Forgetfull, Self opinionated and more important than the band?..
...can't say ive noticed this on X Factor.

Edited March 26, 2010 by MB1

[Sarah5string]

Sackable offence!!

[Dr.Dave]

Ahhhhhhhhhh - how many more times ??!!!!

We're all singers - everyone of us , we just don't do it.

There is not one forum member who can't sing - just many who don't or won't. I assure everyone that if you put one tenth of the effort into practising singing as you do playing bass there will never be a stand alone singer in your band again. No more problems with wannabes taking a ride with us. I guarantee that after a bit of practise and a couple of rehearsals your confidence will soar up a learning curve we couldn't have dreamed about when learning bass. And - trust me - you will love it. You'll fight to get to the mic. The lead melody line AND the bass line at the same time??!! What else better is there with your clothes on?!!!

Agreed - a) some of us may have found really talented , dedicated musicians as vocalists and we might simply not want to sing but my point stands.

We can sing if we try AND , what's more , we can play bass while we do it.

End of sermon.

[skampino]

You obviously haven't heard me sing! LOL

[MB1]

MB1.
...Can't Sing Won't Sing Eh?...hope the BBC dont get to hear about this!... theyed probably turn it into a programme with Graham Norton.

Edited March 26, 2010 by MB1

[Dr.Dave]

[quote name='skampino' post='787081' date='Mar 26 2010, 03:50 PM']You obviously haven't heard me sing! LOL[/quote]

Neither have you.

Try it for 15 mins a day for the next month then tell me I'm talking sh*te.

BTW I've been playing bass for 35 years but I was nearly 40 before I sung a note. I'm not 'gifted' at it , my voice is a bit boring and I don't pitch well naturally BUT , I practised , I learned , I got confident and I'd get on a stage with anybody and not feel second best - more to the point I'd get the job done.

[thunderbird13]

[quote name='Dr.Dave' post='787132' date='Mar 26 2010, 04:16 PM']Neither have you.

Try it for 15 mins a day for the next month then tell me I'm talking sh*te.

BTW I've been playing bass for 35 years but I was nearly 40 before I sung a note. I'm not 'gifted' at it , my voice is a bit boring and I don't pitch well naturally BUT , I practised , I learned , I got confident and I'd get on a stage with anybody and not feel second best - more to the point I'd get the job done.[/quote]

dont want to derail this thread but singing is something I would like to do as most people seem to expect a basisst to do BV. Do you follow a course either book or online or just sing along to what your listening to at the time ?

[Dr.Dave]

[quote name='thunderbird13' post='787140' date='Mar 26 2010, 04:21 PM']dont want to derail this thread but singing is something I would like to do as most people seem to expect a basisst to do BV. Do you follow a course either book or online or just sing along to what your listening to at the time ?[/quote]

I've never had a lesson but I think they would be a great idea. I started because I was in a band with 2 singing guitarists , one left and we had 2 gigs at the weekend. I thought about Jack Kennedy and figured 'ask not what your band can do for you , ask what you can do for your band'. I learned his songs and (crapping myself) just did it. The first line I sang - you'd think the mic was connected to the mains , the speed I backed off it. Not now - I put on the actors clothes and pretended to be a confident singer until one day I became one. I knew I was dedicated to our band , who else could I be that sure of??
It was the same thinking with our remaining singer/guitarist - what's he gonna do , lay down and die?? No way - he figured out how to play all the parts himself and sod the other bloke. We have gigs to play , audiences to please , landlords to keep our word to. Blinkers on - onward.

We should think of ourselves as musicians , not bass players per se , and do what we need to do to make our projects work.

I actually think , in a way , it's good when musicians say they can't sing. That means they've learned skills that tell them the sound isn't good , the pitching is off etc etc. It only takes one further bit of thinking - ie. singing is a skill , I've proved I can learn skills , I can learn to sing.

I trust me to (part) front our band more than I would anyone else. You should too.

[OldGit]

[quote name='Dr.Dave' post='787172' date='Mar 26 2010, 04:41 PM']I've never had a lesson but I think they would be a great idea. I started because I was in a band with 2 singing guitarists , one left and we had 2 gigs at the weekend.

Snip[/quote]

I'm singing a lot more now and it took me a while to find my "real voice". However I struggle to remember the words .. Any tips?
I [b]really [/b] don't want to use a music stand.

Edited March 26, 2010 by OldGit

[Mog]

No two ways about it. Line up a replacment and get rid of him.

[Dr.Dave]

[quote name='OldGit' post='787184' date='Mar 26 2010, 04:49 PM']I'm singing a lot more now and it took me a while to find my "real voice". However I struggle to remember the words .. Any tips?
I [b]really [/b] don't want to use a music stand.[/quote]

Again , it's the confidence thing. I sometimes forget so I sing the line from the verse before or make a weird nonsensical noise or do baa baa black sheep (not a gag , I did that once) ...but I do it with gusto and nobody ever knows.

Our guitar player , Rod , does use a music stand - I hate the bloody thing and tease him mercilessly - usually on stage to shame him - but he's immune , sadly. He def. doesn't need it. I go over mid song and flip the pages over and he manages fine.
I call it 'the great Marvo' because it looks like he's about to pull a rabbit out of it.

You're right about the 'real' voice thing. Rod has developed a sort of Chris Rea 'talk sing' thing and I developed a fog horn. I can't sing well quietly and he can't belt it. I learned a lot from him - he's no natural singer but he figured out how to do it anyway by using what he had. The montoring's a joke - he has loads and I do without , we both sing better that way. He thinks I'm the better singer and I think he is. The way of things , probably.

I'm not on a crusade here. I've been around the site forever and the 'our singer let us down' post is common. I'm telling you all a way to deal with it.