Nerdy string question - early Fenders (1950s)

[Clarky]

Was looking at that retro ad for the new TV Bass combos with the 51 butterscotch blonde P bass leaning on the amp and then wondered: what strings would have been on those early Fenders? Big flat tapewound things, flatwounds, roundwounds (were they even around for basses in the early days?)??? Given the thumpy sound of early Precisions (eg on Presley recordings) I assume flats ... sorry super nerdy I know.

[derrenleepoole]

What a good question... well Rotosound didn't come about until 1966? I think, so I'm guessing La Bellas?

[The Bass Doc]

I think only double bass strings would be available at first, so I'm guessing big fat flats (La Bella most likely).

[Cat Burrito]

I always thought it was flatwounds. If you want a big thumpy sound try Rotosound Trubass - i.e. what McCartney used on the rooftop gig. Not period correct but they sound just great

[chris_b]

Flats. Rotosound didn't invent round wound strings until the 60's.

[BassBod]

I read somewhere they bought the VC Squier company originally because they needed strings for things like bass guitars they couldn't get....and the employees that didn't go to fender ended up as the GHS string company.

But that could be utter b+=~@~, of course.

I also read somewhere they used to wrap a bit of metal tape round a gut double bass string (just over the pickup) when they were designing the early Pbass, as they couldn't get a string to fit.

Edited March 25, 2010 by BassBod

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

elastic bands

[Clarky]

It struck me that there is a huge industry in period correct old Fenders (eg Custom ShopCloset Classics and 51, 55 and 57 Reissues) and yet the bit that actually vibrates and makes the sound on these may not bear any relation to what was actually on the 'real deal' back in the early 50s. I am guessing Bass Doc's assumption of cut down DB strings is most likely the right one.

[chris_b]

VC Squire started making strings for electric instruments in the 1930's and pianos had used metal bass strings for many years before that. There were other electric bass guitars around when Fender came up with the Precision so the need for bass strings wasn’t unusual at that point.

[BassBod]

Its also worth noting that steel cored strings for double bass were a new(ish) thing - most players were still using thick/soft/ fragile gut strings up to the late 50's / early 60's?. There is a huge difference between a gut E string and a steel one, and much less of a transition to a bass-guitar style flatwound as we know it from the 60's.

I guess the Pyramid Gold or LaBella is the nearest to a custom shop re-issue....

[4 Strings]

Piano strings have always been round wound, but the windings in bronze so, despite the steel core, not that great for magnetic pickups (ok for the old microphonic type and the latter day piezo). I imagine steel guitar strings would have been round wound too, although I know tape wound strings were used. Can see here about (the claimed) start of roundwounds for bass ( [url="http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/equipment/bass/equip-entwistlegear-misc.html"]http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/equipment/ba...egear-misc.html[/url] )which would imply the strings supplied with original Precisions would have been flats, mimicking the upright basses of the day.

This ( [url="http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/images/strings/1966_Fender_Strings_01.jpg"]http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/images/strin..._Strings_01.jpg[/url] and [url="http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/images/strings/1966_Fender_Strings_02.jpg"]http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/images/strin..._Strings_02.jpg[/url] ) shows that Fender's 'Precision Bass' strings were available as flat wound, tape wound and with unidentified (default round?) windings in 1966.

Slightly earlier than Entwhistle, Jamerson used La Bella flats. Interesting that legend has it that he never changed his strings ('the gunk adds to the funk') but he wasn't using Fender strings that, if available, would have come with his bass, which, I understand, was bought new.

So, with these little scraps, perhaps La Bella flats were fitted.

This offers an indirect look (http://www.fender.com/uk/support/basses.php ) scroll down to 'Strings'. The 7150M are described elsewhere as '...the original nickel roundwound electric bass guitar strings from Fender, the world's #1 bass guitar manufacturer!' so maybe they were round and Entwhistle/Rotosound hadn't discovered them - seems unlikely.

Edited March 26, 2010 by 4 Strings

[chris_b]

A quote from Rotosound.com

“It was John who actually asked us back in the 60’s, for a louder, bigger sound from a set of bass strings, hence the round wound bass strings he started using around ’63. He thought, well I’m the bass player in The Who, but I can now compete with the guitarist, and as we now know the rest is history, and evidence that this was a totally unique product at the time, and none of the other companies had cottoned on to making round wound bass strings”.

[4 Strings]

I also found this interesting, actually from Fender. [url="http://www.fender.com/news/index.php?display_article=444"]http://www.fender.com/news/index.php?display_article=444[/url]

and also this from the Squier site;
[i]"Fender entered the picture in the 1950s, when the V.C. Squier Company began supplying Southern California inventor and businessman Leo Fender with strings for his unusual new electric guitars. The V.C. Squier Company became an official original equipment manufacturer for Fender in 1963, and Fender bought the V.C. Squier string company in early 1965 shortly before Fender itself was bought by CBS in May of that year. By the mid-1970s, the Squier name was retired as the strings had taken the Fender name."
[/i]

So, maybe Fender branded Squier strings were used for the guitars, but what about the basses?

Edited March 26, 2010 by 4 Strings

[4 Strings]

Found some more, this time from the La Bella catalogue:

"“ORIGINAL 1954” FENDER® STYLE
(Registered trademark of Fender Musical Instruments, Inc.)
Flat Wound
The 0760M set was used on virtually every Motown gold
record in the 1960s. Donald “Duck“ Dunn used the same
strings on countless recordings with Otis Redding and
Booker T. & the MG’s. They are the fullest and deepest
sounding bass strings ever.
Set 0760M Medium
.052 - G ¡ .073 - D ™ .095 - A£ .110 - E ¢
760M-B Low “B“ .128 - single"

The reference to Motown is surely Jamerson, but the claim of "Original '54 Fender Style" is interesting. Have we found the root? .052 for the G - goodness, no wonder noone could play Jamerson's bass!

Right, no more now, I've got work to do!

[The Bass Doc]

I'd like to point out I play the Original '54 set and don't find it any effort at all - check out The Stax Brothers on Youtube. You'll find I'm not exactly going through the pain barrier.

BTW we had no idea that we were being recorded at the time, otherwise I'd have uttered the immortal phrase 'I can usually do much better than that'.

As it happens, the same words I used to Elle McPherson as I slipped quite effortlessly back into my Y-fronts.

[Clarky]

[quote name='The Bass Doc' post='786864' date='Mar 26 2010, 12:47 PM']I'd like to point out I play the Original '54 set and don't find it any effort at all - check out The Stax Brothers on Youtube. You'll find I'm not exactly going through the pain barrier.

BTW we had no idea that we were being recorded at the time, otherwise I'd have uttered the immortal phrase 'I can usually do much better than that'.

As it happens, the same words I used to Elle McPherson as I slipped quite effortlessly back into my Y-fronts.[/quote]
Did she put the phone down on you?

[The Bass Doc]

Ah, you sussed me out.

As it happens, the same words I used to Elle McPherson when she described what she was wearing at the time.

Edited March 26, 2010 by The Bass Doc

[4 Strings]

[quote name='The Bass Doc' post='786864' date='Mar 26 2010, 12:47 PM']I'd like to point out I play the Original '54 set and don't find it any effort at all - check out The Stax Brothers on Youtube. You'll find I'm not exactly going through the pain barrier.

BTW we had no idea that we were being recorded at the time, otherwise I'd have uttered the immortal phrase 'I can usually do much better than that'.

As it happens, the same words I used to Elle McPherson as I slipped quite effortlessly back into my Y-fronts.[/quote]


How do like them? I'm drifting into the Flat road myself at the moment to play some Motown in a few months. I've put back the old Rotosound flats on my Precision for the purpose. I have nothing to which to compare them.

By the way, where did you get your wonderful signature pic?

Edited March 26, 2010 by 4 Strings

[The Bass Doc]

La Bella are smoother to the touch than Rotosound. If the guage 52-110 scares you, I would recommend the lighter set 760FL which are 43-104. I think you'll like them.

[The Bass Doc]

[quote name='4 Strings' post='787118' date='Mar 26 2010, 04:10 PM']By the way, where did you get your wonderful signature pic?[/quote]

That's an old photograph taken from the USA Bass Player magazine some years ago - can't remember the context, just printed as a 'quirky'. It was deemed appropriate for me when I had a shop in Nun Street, Newcastle and she became known as 'the slapping nun of Nun Street'.

Edited March 26, 2010 by The Bass Doc

[EssentialTension]

In 1976 I bought a new Precision and it came with factory fitted flats with green silks.

[4 Strings]

Wonder if she's using flats!

[4 Strings]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='787185' date='Mar 26 2010, 04:50 PM']In 1976 I bought a new Precision and it came with factory fitted flats with green silks.[/quote]

Really? Thanks for that, the old Precision I have is '78 and was fitted with flats with green silk and I wondered what make they were. From what you say, perhaps they are the original strings. I put them back on yesterday.

Seems like Precisions came with different strings, perhaps they could be specified.

Back to the original question from what I could find they were flats, possibly Squier or La Bellas.

[Doddy]

According to Forrest White,who was a Fender executive and friend of Leo Fender

"Strings for the prototype electric basses did not exist,because there were no instruments to put them
on. Simple enough? Leo had to take gut strings and wrap them with small-gauge iron wire for his
first units.He said this was a heck of a job. After the bass proved successful,he had V.C. Squier
make the strings for him. He had been buying all of his guitar strings from Squier........."

Take from the October 2001 issue of Bass Player magazine.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='4 Strings' post='787307' date='Mar 26 2010, 06:39 PM']Really? Thanks for that, the old Precision I have is '78 and was fitted with flats with green silk and I wondered what make they were. From what you say, perhaps they are the original strings. I put them back on yesterday.[/quote]
They could be original. I think the Fender stainless flats still have green silks today.