MARSHALL MB4210 VOLUME

[GRAHAM SG1]

Hello all you bassists out there

I have just joined this site and think its very good .
I have recently bought a Marshall MB 4210 and am disappointed with its volume level, I played my first band rehearsal with it last night, we are a 3 piece rock/blues covers band, the guitarist uses a 30 Watt valve amp and the drummer is nearly 60 years old, so we are not a really loud band, I had all volumes on the amp up to maximum and the amp was only about the same level as the other two, this gives me no extra headroom should I need it, for a 300 Watt amp it is not very powerful, is this right for this amp or could there be a fault with it, either way its going back for a refund and I will have to look for something more suitable .
I must say that the amps actual tones are very good, its just the lack of power that bothers me .
My bass is a Gibson SG faded so I dont think the guitar is lacking in power.

Has anyone on here experienced a similar problem with this amp and what would you recommend I replace it with, I have thought About the Ashdown MAG 300 2x10 combo .

Thanks in anticipation

[essexbasscat]

Can't offer much insight into what the source of problem might be, but I did research these amps a short while ago and the general consensus of opinion was that they were quite loud.

Impression is that your amp is not characteristic of the breed at the moment

T

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='GRAHAM SG1' post='787661' date='Mar 27 2010, 09:29 AM']Hello all you bassists out there

I have just joined this site and think its very good .
I have recently bought a Marshall MB 4210 and am disappointed with its volume level, I played my first band rehearsal with it last night, we are a 3 piece rock/blues covers band, the guitarist uses a 30 Watt valve amp and the drummer is nearly 60 years old, so we are not a really loud band, I had all volumes on the amp up to maximum and the amp was only about the same level as the other two, this gives me no extra headroom should I need it, for a 300 Watt amp it is not very powerful, is this right for this amp or could there be a fault with it, either way its going back for a refund and I will have to look for something more suitable .
I must say that the amps actual tones are very good, its just the lack of power that bothers me .
My bass is a Gibson SG faded so I dont think the guitar is lacking in power.

Has anyone on here experienced a similar problem with this amp and what would you recommend I replace it with, I have thought About the Ashdown MAG 300 2x10 combo .

Thanks in anticipation [/quote]

I think the first thing to do would be to check that the amp is not faulty in any way. Can you take it back to the shop and compare it to another one? I haven't used that particular amp but all the reports I've seen suggest that the Marshall MB series are pretty good budget amps.

If everything is Ok with it then I don't think that swapping it for another budget amp will gain you much. The MAG is probably a better combo but ultimately it is still a similar power and config to your Marshall and won't be appreciably louder. It could be that a 2x10 combo is just not man enough for your band.

For more volume add more speaker area. Either a 2x10 or 1x15 extension cab. If you like the sound of the Marshall and just want more of it then get a Marshell 2x10 cab which will probably give more volume and punch than the 1x15

Edited March 27, 2010 by AndyMartin

[bassmachine2112]

hiho,I use the mb450 head which I believe is the same amp and it is massively loud even with one cab which kicks out 300 watt or the full 450 with two.I never need to run more than 4 on the master-do you have the gain turned down ?.
I did have a problem with mine but I changed the pre amp valve which was cracked and problem solved.
As for ashdown nice tone but no real volume in my experience.
Volume should not be a problem with this baby,mind you another cab ,maybe a 2x10 will give you the herbs you need but I would suspect that there might be a problem with the unit.
hope this helps.

[thebassman]

[quote name='bassmachine2112' post='787689' date='Mar 27 2010, 10:15 AM']hiho,I use the mb450 head which I believe is the same amp and it is massively loud even with one cab which kicks out 300 watt or the full 450 with two.I never need to run more than 4 on the master-do you have the gain turned down ?.
I did have a problem with mine but I changed the pre amp valve which was cracked and problem solved.
As for ashdown nice tone but no real volume in my experience.
Volume should not be a problem with this baby,mind you another cab ,maybe a 2x10 will give you the herbs you need but I would suspect that there might be a problem with the unit.
hope this helps.[/quote]

I found the opposite with an ashdown mag 1x15 combo 300 watt.
Bags of volume but very flat tone.

[GRAHAM SG1]

Thanks for the feedback guys .
I have spoken to the dealer who agrees it is a fault so is picking mine up monday and sending a new replacement, I bought it from DV27 on the internet and they seem fair .
Regards the gain being turned up, I had it on half on the classic channel, but the volume on the modern channel without a gain was the same when fully cranked, its a shame, they offered me a refund but I really like the general tone of the amp, the classic channel is really nice, the blend facility is excellent, I am the bands singer so have to carry the PA which leaves no space in car for an extension cabinet .
I hope this resolves this issue as I dont have more money to add to a refund for a different amp anyway .
Will keep you informed .

[Prime_BASS]

It may have been a dud, don't worry though some one has to get them.

I've got the same model, I agree it has a good tone, and it does go loud, trust me, I had a full sized gig I. A theatre with 2 half stacks one being an orange AD140, and the master was barely pushed up to 4.

Ive never heard this volume problem, I would suggest checking your cables just in case, many minutes have been wasted by me by not checking the cables. Could also try the lead that connects the speakers to the head on the back, and then hook up so e headphones and see if there is still an issue.

These are loud though, trust me, I've cranked it.

[GRAHAM SG1]

Thanks for that Prime_BASS, I did wonder about cables but I use Award Session instrument cables with Neutrik jacks, always have as a guitarist so why not for bass, I had a mad moment and wondered if you need bass specific cables LOL
I will see how the replacement goes and report back, hope its good as I really like the amps versatility and tonal range .

[Prime_BASS]

The only thing I don't like about is that's it's quite dark an the valve 'voice' I don't understand fully, in my eyes 1 is really dark and 3 is a little subtler while 2 is a middle ground.
Also it reacts quite strange eq wise when it's on blend channel, it should have made one of the two channels eq options the total eq control for the channel.

But for me I keep it all flat and have a graphic eq.

[GRAHAM SG1]

Well I have got my new replacement and first impressions are that it is no louder than the first one, I have not tried it with the band yet but I dont think it will be powerful enough to play with fingers only, I will see at the next rehearsal .
Maybe 300 Watts is not powerful enough for a rock n roll band ??

[PaulWarning]

I've got one of these and they are serously loud, you've either got a problem with your bass or the shop has sent you the same one back again, ask your guitarist to play through it se how loud it is then, oh make sure the compressor is off

[Prime_BASS]

Could well be things like that, maybe some EQ will do the trick, or usually playing quite close it makes it seem like it's not getting any louder, I've found half volume is suitable for a small to medium gig.

[Moos3h]

[quote name='GRAHAM SG1' post='804824' date='Apr 13 2010, 01:08 PM']Well I have got my new replacement and first impressions are that it is no louder than the first one, I have not tried it with the band yet but I dont think it will be powerful enough to play with fingers only, I will see at the next rehearsal .
Maybe 300 Watts is not powerful enough for a rock n roll band ??[/quote]

Whereabouts are you? I reckon a second opinion is in order.

If SG1 is part of your post code, PM me as I'm only down the road!

Cheers,
James

[GRAHAM SG1]

THanks James but SG1 is because my bass is a Gibson SG
I tried the MB4210 with my band this evening and it was ok, still not as loud as some may say (IMHO) but the room we play in has a very high ceiling and is a very large classroom so the accoustics dont help, maybe in a pub or club with low ceiling will be good .
I am a bit annoyed with the company I got it from, their advert for this amp is nothing short of blatant misleading, it states `sends booming signals thudding through the chest of anyone within a 200 yard radius` it is utter rubbish as my guitarist was about 10 foot away and his chest is fine LOL, maybe when combined with the extension cab is loud but the 2x10 certainly is not that loud, however, I think the tones from this amp are very good .
You get what you pay for and I like the sound of this amp but am a bit concerned about the potential lack of headroom for larger venues, I can get a refund but will have to pay the postage to send it back, also I dont have any more cash to buy a more powerful amp at the moment so looks like I will keep it for a while .

How much extra headroom would I get if I changed the speakers for some higher quality ones ?

[leonshelley01]

I use an MB4210 to rehearse with drums and two guitarists playing heavy metal and I've never taken the volume past 4. Have you checked if the compressor is switched on (if so, turn it off), the active/passive switch set correctly and are you just using the classic channel? The classic channel on its own is quieter than the modern, but I tend to blend both channels together.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='GRAHAM SG1' post='812072' date='Apr 19 2010, 11:29 PM']THanks James but SG1 is because my bass is a Gibson SG
I tried the MB4210 with my band this evening and it was ok, still not as loud as some may say (IMHO) but the room we play in has a very high ceiling and is a very large classroom so the accoustics dont help, maybe in a pub or club with low ceiling will be good .
I am a bit annoyed with the company I got it from, their advert for this amp is nothing short of blatant misleading, it states `sends booming signals thudding through the chest of anyone within a 200 yard radius` it is utter rubbish as my guitarist was about 10 foot away and his chest is fine LOL, maybe when combined with the extension cab is loud but the 2x10 certainly is not that loud, however, I think the tones from this amp are very good .
You get what you pay for and I like the sound of this amp but am a bit concerned about the potential lack of headroom for larger venues, I can get a refund but will have to pay the postage to send it back, also I dont have any more cash to buy a more powerful amp at the moment so looks like I will keep it for a while .

How much extra headroom would I get if I changed the speakers for some higher quality ones ?[/quote]
I use mine with a 1 x 15 extention cab at gigs, it does make quiet a difference and adds some more bottom end

[GRAHAM SG1]

I have tried every adjustment, this amp just does not have a lot of headroom in my opinion, I had the master volume on max and modern, classic and blend volumes between half and three quarters and I am still not impressed with the power, I noticed that it is almost pointless going much further than half on the individual channel volumes as no significant gain in volume .
Shame as I love the tone this amp gives, especially the classic channel .
In a way though, its not so bad as it limits the level the band can play which may save my hearing form too much damage !

[alexclaber]

I wouldn't expect a 300W bass combo to be capable of playing any louder than a 30W GUITAR amp, or a rock drummer. That's the reality of playing bass. And where you have the gain/volume knobs set gives no indication of how much extra output is available or how much power you're using.

Edited April 21, 2010 by alexclaber

[Musicman20]

I've played a similar model to this in a rehearsal room with a LOUD punk band about a year ago. It had no lack of volume at all...reminded me of how loud the Trace combos are.

Personally, I'd complain again and get them to pick up/refund...

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='813606' date='Apr 21 2010, 11:39 AM']I've played a similar model to this in a rehearsal room with a LOUD punk band about a year ago. It had no lack of volume at all...reminded me of how loud the Trace combos are.[/quote]

How loud this combo (or any rig) manages to play depends hugely on the tone that is wanted. If Graham wants a fat and clean old school sound then he's going to struggle to get that tone at high volume from two budget 10"s, however many watts the amp claims to be. Positioning the amp in the corner of the room, no more than 18" from the walls for maximum boundary reinforcement will get the most out of it, which might make the critical difference.

[GRAHAM SG1]

Thanks for the replies fellas .
Its difficult one, I agree now that 300 Watts for bass is not a great deal, I use a 30 Watt Laney LC30 valve guitar amp which is way louder than this Marshall .
My situation is that I have only recently taken up bass after many years on guitar so still getting the band up to speed, no gigs for at least 3 months, I like this amps tones, I prefer a vintage sound so the nice warm classic channel is great, another problem will be that we use a 400 Watt PA which could be overpowered by a much louder bass amp, there are quite a few issues as you can all appreciate .

I think I have four options;

1, Use an extension speaker cabinet with this amp so it goes up to 450 Watts
2, Return it for a refund, their policy is that all the packaging must be as new which after transit it clearly is not, even if I got a refund I do not have any cash to upgrade to a much better amp, I would have to pay courier so that increases the amount I have to find for something else .
3, Keep it and see if it is ok at gigs, the suggestion of placing it in a corner is good, small venues may well be fine and use an extension cab for the bigger venues, if not ebay it and go the finance route on a bigger amp
4, Upgrade the speakers for some better ones .

Its a difficult one, I guess its like buying a car then finding out its not fast enough, you dont know till you try it, but the product is still fit for purpose .
Thanks for your input

[alexclaber]

The extension speaker will make a big difference, not because of the extra power but because of the increased ability of the rig to move air (total cone area x cone excursion) as that is what is currently limiting you. Upgrading to speakers which are good enough to make a significant difference will be uneconomic as you'll then run into other limitations (amp power, port compression, etc).

Before you go down that road, use the corner placement to increase your efficiency in the lows and also point your guitarist's amp at his head which will cause him to turn down, which means your drummer will hit less hard and the stage volume will drop. If you and your drummer are opposite your guitarist and his amp then both of you will hear him louder than he will, because the speaker fires the sound out in a narrow cone shape, straight past his legs, totally missing his ears but getting yours.

It's not about 300W vs 450W vs 30W etc. It's about dB SPL which is a function of real world sensitivity (dB SPL @ 1m per W) and real world power handling, AND also about apparent loudness which is a function of frequency content, distortion content and other tonal issues. Guitar amps are incredibly sensitive so the low power doesn't matter, and incredibly loud sounding to the human ear for their actual dB output due to their tone. Bass amps, particularly if you like fat mellow tones, are the opposite - low sensitivity, restricted ability of the speakers to handle the higher power output of the amps so you can't use all the watts and still get clean sounds, and our ears are bad at hearing lower frequency oriented sounds. That's why PA subwoofers require much more power to drive them to equal SPL than PA tops. Stick some distortion on those PA tops (as with a guitar amp) and you need even less power.

[Musicman20]

Out of those four, Id suggest a refund and give it some thought. Possibly DI the Bass for a few weeks until you know what you are happy with.

There are some stunningly loud and light amps/cabs around at the moment...and some of them are very 'old school' in their tone

We can all help with recommendations, but dont blame us if you end up getting addicted to buying this stuff!

[cheddatom]

If you get a refund you could use your cash to better effect buying used here on the forum.

[GRAHAM SG1]

I am considering getting a credit and buying another amp from the place I bought this from, I have seen an Ashdown MAG 600 H EVO2 head, what 2x10 cab do you guys recommend bearing in mind my budget is about £250, it requires a minmum of 4 ohm impedance for the cab .