Gear upgrading & sound issues: where do I go from here?

[Ancient Mariner]

I'm a guitarist, but playing bass a bit right now (and trying to play like a bass player ). Back at Christmas I acquired a couple of cheap basses: a Johnny Brooke J type from Gafbass here and an Encore P type. The (roundwound) strings seem reasonably crisp when played unplugged, and appear bright and reasonably clean. I'm playing through an old Carlsbro 45 watt bass amp (new 12" celestion speaker) that is adequate volume wise, though certainly having to work fairly hard.

It sounds tolerable, but not great. Some of that is certainly down to the player, and I'm trying to fix it, but some of it is down to the kit. Plugging in direct w/o effects, the bottom end sounds flabby and gets farty if pushed hard, and no amount of tone-control tweaking will fix it. Volume going across the strings is even except for the bottom E string, particularly between the open and 3rd frets, after which it gets louder. I've done some PU adjustment, but that's not the answer, and I'm thinking this is because the speaker/cab/amp can't cope with the lowest frequencies.

My questions then: how to deal with the weak and flabby bottom end and what to change to improve tone generally. Is this likely an issue with the basses (new pickups reqd?) or amp, and which should I 'fix' first? The sorts of music I'll play run through rock to funk, ballads to blues, and I play with fingers, pick and am learning to slap. I'd like defined tones, but not sharp and spiky. I'd also prefer more lower mids than a thump that you feel but can't hear in the music. Funds for kit are very limited (I seem to spend more time in the used section of this forum than anywhere else right now) but I may try trading/sell of some guitar stuff to fund upgrades.

Your suggestions are welcome - thanks everyone.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Ancient Mariner

[Sarah5string]

Sounds like new strings might help if you've not tried already...
failing that I had a similar problem once and found that raising the pickups on the E side solved the problem.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Sarah5string

[xgsjx]

I couldn't comment if the basses would be part of the problem but I know the Carlsberg amps are gantin. I had a Cobra 90 bass head for yonks & didn't realise how pants it was until I replaced it.

A 1/2 decent rig would be a good starting block & you needent spend a lot.

[ThomBassmonkey]

Sounds like you need a new amp.

Are you playing in a band and need something giggable or are you just playing for your own amusement or recording? If it's the latter, you have plenty of options for amps on a tight budget, if it's the former, you're much more limited.

[Wolverinebass]

A new amp is the order of the day. I played a Carlsbro a few years ago and it was just ..... awful. Never again. They make Ashdowns sound crisp and I regard them as being very wooly indeed. I think as well, you're playing something that's 45w against a full band? Ouch. No wonder you're struggling.

[Daquifsta]

I'm with Sarah: best thing I ever did was stop buying cheapo strings at £8 a set from the 'bay, and spend a reasonable amount on something decent. In my case, I chose DR High Beams. A set of new strings is a lot cheaper than an amp!

When you've swapped the strings, check again how the bass sounds acoustically (i.e. not plugged in). If it sounds nice, only then start looking further along the chain.

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='Wolverinebass' post='788861' date='Mar 28 2010, 08:52 PM']A new amp is the order of the day. I played a Carlsbro a few years ago and it was just ..... awful. Never again. They make Ashdowns sound crisp and I regard them as being very wooly indeed. I think as well, you're playing something that's 45w against a full band? Ouch. No wonder you're struggling.[/quote]

I actually quite rate Carlsbro as cheap bass amps. I've only really used the old Bassline series (before they got all round and cuddly) but they were brilliant amps. My Bassline 150's lasted me nearly 10 years and it's only ever died once. Always sounded fine too, not as good as my new GK rig, but it cost a quarter of the price, so no surprise there.

[Wolverinebass]

A fair point that you get what you pay for. I certainly never got on Carlsbro amps. I can usually get a good sound with any amp I try (as you would imagine you would have to if you played an Alembic), but they were just awful.

However, a while back just to illustrate my point here I played a gig about 500 yards from my house. The bass amp provided was a 1x12 Carlsbro. On seeing that I immediately went home and got my stack after trying it. Imagine if you will. A Status Buzzard sounding flabby and generally a bit rubbish. Virtually nothing would sort it out so I got my own rig for my own soundcheck.

Every single other bassist sounded awful during their soundcheck (if you could even hear them) and all of them asked to use my rig. Nothing spectacular, just a Hartke head and Markbass cabs.

On the other hand, I agree with Sarah. New strings and good ones are always worth it.

[Ancient Mariner]

Thanks guys - acoustically the basses sound OK, although new strings never hurt (except the pocket).

Ampwise I need something to play out with, but it needn't be huge. What's the benefits of 2X10 vs 1X15 (with or w/o tweeter)? There's some nice stuff in the for sale section, but I may have to shed some gear first to pay for something suitable.

[OldGit]

Bit like Sarah's thread.

45 watts is a practice amp for most people, if you have drums to compete with.

A good bass will probably struggle to sound Ok through an underpowered bass amp/combo turned up too loud where as a crap bass through an SVT and 8x10 will probably sound OK.

So I'd say try a reasonable combo with about 300 watts and then see if you need to change your bass or parts of it. A rehearsal studio may have one you can try.

10, 12 or 15 inch speakers all sound Ok but different. That's down to taste and possibly back strength...

[Ancient Mariner]

Thanks OG. The desire to upgrade NOW is strong, but I should try some stuff first. Hopefully I'll be able to make it to the wood & tronics bash, and that will give me a better idea of how different kit sounds (and hopefully pick up some technique/style tips too).

[OldGit]

[quote name='Ancient Mariner' post='789290' date='Mar 29 2010, 12:11 PM']Thanks OG. The desire to upgrade NOW is strong, but I should try some stuff first. Hopefully I'll be able to make it to the wood & tronics bash, and that will give me a better idea of how different kit sounds (and hopefully pick up some technique/style tips too).[/quote]

ha ha yeah well that may present your credit card with some options too

[51m0n]

What you have there is a tired old practice amp.

Its not the strings thats a rela problem here, a 40w Carlsbro is going to sound like utter plop whatever you do.

Any amp with at least 300w into any impedance and power matched reasonably decent cab will be such a vast improvement as to be fine.

210 vs 115 is not the issue really, if they are good they are good. If you like how they sound at full chat, then they are good. Get a cab with a tweeter that you can attenuate (ickle rotary pot, usually on the back in the control section) that way you can figure out how much zing you need.

If you have about £500 to splash you'll be making such vast improvements as to be satisifed for a very long time.

Edited March 29, 2010 by 51m0n

[51m0n]

[quote name='OldGit' post='789299' date='Mar 29 2010, 12:18 PM']ha ha yeah well that may present your credit card with some options too [/quote]

Oh yeah, the wood'n'tronics bash will set your little heart alight with GAS, better have some bucks with you!

[Ancient Mariner]

Thanks for the warning - the credit card will remain locked up safely at home!

[OldGit]

[quote name='Ancient Mariner' post='789488' date='Mar 29 2010, 03:20 PM']Thanks for the warning - the credit card will remain locked up safely at home!

[/quote]


But seriously bring your bass and try a few rigs. It ay give you an idea of what you may want to aim for or look out for used.

As has been said before the quality difference between a £150 bass and a £500 bass (new prices) is huge. Up from there is largely marginal changes and taste.

The W&T's [b]are [/b]amazing but very little of the amaziness is actually [i]necessary[/i]

[thumperbob 2002]

Loads of good gear on the old ebay- I would look for a trace elliot 15" combo- one with a 7 band graphic- should pick one up for about £250 -heavy but a lot of sound for the buck- get yourself a squire Jazz and you are done- for £500!!


Any more than that is just really not needed. But it will happen.

Once you have that level of gear it is all in how it is set up and your fingers.

Bob

[Ancient Mariner]

I can see a couple of guitars just quaking with fear at the thought of transfer right now.

Realistically, I'll probably try to grab a used combo or head/cab from here, then either upgrade the PUs in the J type or chop it in for a Squier/MIM Fender. However I did like the P-Type's tone through my little open backed combo, so maybe I'll find I prefer that style instead. We'll see.

Thanks for the tips everyone.

[OldGit]

Ashdown and Trace combos are good if you liek the sound ( I don't) but if I may I'll just bung in a word for used Peavey stuff.
There's loads of it around and it's prettycheap
The 1x15 combos certaily give bang for your buck (and backache)
I just lourve the rock tone from my antedeluvian Combo 300 BW but most of the bass combos they made since the 80 when mine was build will do a fine job.

Best to get one that has an extention speaker socket in case you need to add air shifting but even the TNT 150 will keep up with drums and things.. TKO maybe not..

or a peavey head and 2x12 cab. Cheap again and plenty of noise.

[Ancient Mariner]

Thanks OG - what don't you (and apparently a number of others here) like about Ashdown and trace gear? Are they a bit soft on definition?

[OldGit]

[quote name='Ancient Mariner' post='789858' date='Mar 29 2010, 08:18 PM']Thanks OG - what don't you (and apparently a number of others here) like about Ashdown and trace gear? Are they a bit soft on definition?[/quote]


There are loads of people on here that swear by them but they just don't work for me. I just can't hear them for some reason.
I've had two Trace rigs and an Ashdown ABM stack and had trouble getting any clarity out of them. Could be the way I play but they just didn't work for me.

Your experience may be different.

[gelfin]

Hi how about you check out some Gallien Kreuger kit. Find a second hand RB700 or 1001. Often to be found on Ebay. Item number 120549358650.
Plenty of cab options to choose from. 2x10RBH or 4x10RBH. Both horn loaded and use the bi-amp feature of the heads for ultimate control.
I am probably a bit biased in my opinion because I have used GK kit for the last five years, starting with an RB400/15 combo (now kept for small practises) and moving to a Fusion 550 hybrid 410 and 210 cabs. Tone range from dub to bright and punchy enough to cut through any mix.

[OldGit]

[quote name='gelfin' post='790043' date='Mar 29 2010, 10:21 PM']Hi how about you check out some Gallien Kreuger kit. Find a second hand RB700 or 1001. Often to be found on Ebay. Item number 120549358650.[/quote]

Might exceed the budget though.. Maybe one to aspire to?

"It has been gigged [i]roughly[/i] a dozen times during that time " hardly a good sales point. I suspect he means "approimately"

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='OldGit' post='789868' date='Mar 29 2010, 08:26 PM']There are loads of people on here that swear by them but they just don't work for me. I just can't hear them for some reason.
I've had two Trace rigs and an Ashdown ABM stack and had trouble getting any clarity out of them. Could be the way I play but they just didn't work for me.

Your experience may be different.[/quote]

When I was at college they kitted out all the rooms with Ashdowns (and threw out the old TEs, which I was gutted about) and they sounded awful.

Either you had the bass up and they sounded woolly or you turned it down and got no beef, there was no middle ground for me. In saying that though, Ashdowns were known for reliability issues and these were worked hard back then.

I've tried a stack or two that's been ok since, that experience at college has completely put me off them though.

[Ancient Mariner]

Well, it looks like the amp has decided for me - it stopped working last night - so if I want to carry on with bass I shall HAVE to acquire something else.

Ho hum.