Lessons From Someone Other Than A Bass Player

[Pete Academy]

I was talking to our drummer a while back about lessons. He said if wanted some, he would go to someone who isn't a drummer, in order to gain a totally different perspective. This made me think, as he's given me some great advice about groove and time that I may not have got from a bass player.

Any thoughts on this?

Edited March 29, 2010 by Pete Academy

[ghigo85]

I think it's a very good suggestion.

the most important lessons of my life came from a 70% from people who were not bassplayers.

An incredible experience was playing with musician from other countries with a strong rhythmical aspects, and I can hear now their influence on my playing, on each instrument (bass, stick, viola da gamba).

From teachers, I learned so much from an amazing teacher of partiture reading at conservatory, a man with an incredible culture, and each lesson was like a long journey in several aspects of music, about compositions style and techniques, about life of composers and the use of each instrument (for example, when explained me the use of the resonance of acoustic piano structures in Debussy compositions it was amazing), and so on... hours spent listening to him that now I miss so much!

I believe that playing with good musicians and listening to lessons that come from other players are an incredible tool for becoming a better musician. For technique, of course, you need a bass teacher, but then you can find new and personal solutions maybe trying to copy some elements that you like in the style of other players.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

Not sure - When I did a term of jazz bass lessons (in a small class - not 1 to 1 lessons), the tutor couldn't make it one week, so the college's drum tutor took the class. I recall it being a bit of a waste of time.

Maybe a bass player who also plays drums or a drummer who also plays drums to a good standard would be worthwhile.

[oldslapper]

Depends on what you'd want lessons in really?

Technique....go to a bass player/teacher.

Groove?....probably come up to you mate!!

Theory?....I did separate theory grades with a classical guitarist. I didn't touch on guitar playing, just theory and it was helpful to get an overview of of both staves.

My pet hate though is guitarists teaching bass....don't know why....just do.

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='oldslapper' post='789143' date='Mar 29 2010, 08:55 AM']Depends on what you'd want lessons in really?

Technique....go to a bass player/teacher.

Groove?....probably come up to you mate!!

Theory?....I did separate theory grades with a classical guitarist. I didn't touch on guitar playing, just theory and it was helpful to get an overview of of both staves.

My pet hate though is guitarists teaching bass....don't know why....just do.[/quote]

Guitarists? It's a discipline thing.

[hagguy]

the only expieriance i had of lessons was at school,
i say "lessons" loosley, a more accurate description
would be i sat with tab while the tutor went for a coffee,
because he played classical guitar he wasn't even slightley interested.
i think it's great watching non bass players plunking away, always
pick up something worthwhile, i like to try most instruments,
taught myself how to play drums solely through youtube vids
sometimes non traditional routes to learning are better. the drummer
in my old band had a cool way of tapping that sounded mint, i still can't do
it as good. i personally think lessons are only useful to people who can work
with structure, thats my worst nightmare, but it works for some people.
when i moved to playing bass i thought about lessons, mainly because
i couldnt get over how difficult it was to start off with but between youtube
and jams in my house with mates, i think i've pick up way more than i would
at lessons, plus it didnt cost anything

[GBH]

Personally I have learnt lots of useful stuff about time etc from attending drum clinics,I generally find them more helpful than bass or guitar clinics. Geoff.

[Ancient Mariner]

It's always good to pick up stuff from others perspective. As a guitar player, I think I'm learning stuff from bass playing that will be useful with my guitar too. But I'm probably also not typical of the breed, since I'm looking for more than someone to just provide a platform for me to solo over.

[MythSte]

I think for developing yourself as an advanced player then totally go to different instrumentalists for their perspective, its a great idea which i infact hadnt thought of. However I do believe that the core of bass playing should be taught by a bass player. Its so easy for beginners to pick up bad technique from guitarists "turning their hands" to bass teaching - habits that are hard to get out of and could result in physical damage. Not always the case, obviously, but worth thinking about.

[oldslapper]

[quote name='Ancient Mariner' post='789285' date='Mar 29 2010, 12:07 PM']But I'm probably also not typical of the breed, since I'm looking for more than someone to just provide a platform for me to solo over. [/quote]

I think you're gonna get a lot of PM's from bass players asking you to join bands after that satement!! .......................where are you???

[xilddx]

My ex is an incredible sitarist and studied with Ali Akhbar Khan. She is by far the most accomplished [i]mucisian[/i] I have known. I learned an enormous amount from her about music in a conceptual way. I would certainly recommend lessons from an accomplished player of a different instrument if you want to learn about being a musician.

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='silddx' post='789374' date='Mar 29 2010, 01:48 PM']My ex is an incredible sitarist and studied with Ali Akhbar Khan. She is by far the most accomplished [i]mucisian[/i] I have known. I learned an enormous amount from her about music in a conceptual way. I would certainly recommend lessons from an accomplished player of a different instrument if you want to learn about being a musician.[/quote]

Agreed.

[Stingray5]

[quote name='silddx' post='789374' date='Mar 29 2010, 12:48 PM']My ex is an incredible sitarist and studied with Ali Akhbar Khan. She is by far the most accomplished [i]mucisian[/i] I have known. I learned an enormous amount from her about music in a conceptual way. I would certainly recommend lessons from an accomplished player of a different instrument if you want to learn about being a musician.[/quote]
Wow, Ali Akhbar Khan - I'm impressed! I know most people tend to think of Ravi Shankar here when it comes to Sitar -- mostly thanks to The Beatles, I guess -- but I've heard a few things from AAK and he is mind-blowing!
I'm certainly no expert myself in this field. No doubt, there are other excellent sitarists around. I just haven't heard them.

[Marvin]

[quote name='Stingray5' post='789524' date='Mar 29 2010, 03:50 PM']Wow, Ali Akhbar Khan - I'm impressed! I know most people tend to think of Ravi Shankar here when it comes to Sitar -- mostly thanks to The Beatles, I guess -- but I've heard a few things from AAK and he is mind-blowing!
I'm certainly no expert myself in this field. No doubt, there are other excellent sitarists around. I just haven't heard them.[/quote]

Totally Off Topic, but they were saying on the wireless this morning Ravi Shanker is 90 this year. I couldn't believe it.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Stingray5' post='789524' date='Mar 29 2010, 03:50 PM']Wow, Ali Akhbar Khan - I'm impressed! I know most people tend to think of Ravi Shankar here when it comes to Sitar -- mostly thanks to The Beatles, I guess -- but I've heard a few things from AAK and he is mind-blowing!
I'm certainly no expert myself in this field. No doubt, there are other excellent sitarists around. I just haven't heard them.[/quote]
Ali Akhbar Khan plays sarod, it's a beautiful instrument.

Check out my ex's late uncle, Pandit Nikhil Bannerjee, for sitar, he has a softer, more feminine touch than Ravi Shankar which I prefer.

North Indian classical musical is wonderful.

[Doddy]

[quote name='hagguy' post='789184' date='Mar 29 2010, 09:43 AM']i personally think lessons are only useful to people who can work
with structure, thats my worst nightmare, but it works for some people.
when i moved to playing bass i thought about lessons, mainly because
i couldnt get over how difficult it was to start off with but between youtube
and jams in my house with mates, i think i've pick up way more than i would
at lessons, plus it didnt cost anything [/quote]

Actually I've never known anyone who hasn't benefited from lessons with a good teacher. You may
think that you have picked up more by avoiding them,but I reckon that you won't have.
Like I've said before,I've been playing professionally for quite a while now,but I still feel the need
to go for lessons a few times a year. Sure,I can buy all the books and watch Youtube,but there is
no substitute for actually sitting in front of a great player and picking their brains about various
ideas and concepts.

As far as taking lessons from another bass player,it depends what you are after. If you want to learn
the theoretical side it doesn't matter what the person plays as long as they know their stuff-although
usually I'd look to piano players. You can learn phrasing ideas from horn players. It's worth checking
out drummers for rhythmic ideas,not necessarily 'groove',but actual rhythms.
However,if you can find a bass player/teacher who has got an idea about 'musicianship' and not just
'Bass' you are on to a winner.

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='Doddy' post='789643' date='Mar 29 2010, 05:22 PM']Actually I've never known anyone who hasn't benefited from lessons with a good teacher. You may
think that you have picked up more by avoiding them,but I reckon that you won't have.
Like I've said before,I've been playing professionally for quite a while now,but I still feel the need
to go for lessons a few times a year. Sure,I can buy all the books and watch Youtube,but there is
no substitute for actually sitting in front of a great player and picking their brains about various
ideas and concepts.

As far as taking lessons from another bass player,it depends what you are after. If you want to learn
the theoretical side it doesn't matter what the person plays as long as they know their stuff-although
usually I'd look to piano players. You can learn phrasing ideas from horn players. It's worth checking
out drummers for rhythmic ideas,not necessarily 'groove',but actual rhythms.
However,if you can find a bass player/teacher who has got an idea about 'musicianship' and not just
'Bass' you are on to a winner.[/quote]

Good post

[xilddx]

[quote name='Doddy' post='789643' date='Mar 29 2010, 05:22 PM']However,if you can find a bass player/teacher who has got an idea about 'musicianship' and not just
'Bass' you are on to a winner.[/quote]

Jakesbass

Not just an [i]idea about 'musicianship'[/i], a whole philosophy.

[hagguy]

Actually I've never known anyone who hasn't benefited from lessons with a good teacher

your right and the above sentance hits the nail on the head. having a GOOD teacher
would no doubt be helpful, my mates taking some advanced bass lessons at the moment,
seems to be doing him the world of good, but when your left on your own to learn it can be ok
even though i was kind of forced into it. maybe i'll try lessons when i'm not so skint no doubt
an enthusastic tutor would improve and refine any skill i picked up

[xilddx]

[quote name='hagguy' post='789757' date='Mar 29 2010, 06:54 PM']Actually I've never known anyone who hasn't benefited from lessons with a good teacher

your right and the above sentance hits the nail on the head. having a GOOD teacher
would no doubt be helpful, my mates taking some advanced bass lessons at the moment,
seems to be doing him the world of good, but when your left on your own to learn it can be ok
even though i was kind of forced into it. maybe i'll try lessons when i'm not so skint no doubt
an enthusastic tutor would improve and refine any skill i picked up [/quote]

I forgot who said this, it was an eminent actor or musician, and it is a lesson in itself.

[i]"Surround yourself with talent"[/i].

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='silddx' post='789708' date='Mar 29 2010, 06:13 PM']Jakesbass

Not just an [i]idea about 'musicianship'[/i], a whole philosophy.[/quote]
You're too kind
Thank you...

[xilddx]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='790022' date='Mar 29 2010, 10:05 PM']You're too kind [/quote]
Thing is, Jake, I'm not, I'm simply stating the facts, mate.

[the_skezz]

Interesting train of thought, but IMO it depends on who you're getting the advice from and what for. Particularly with bass, people can have very fixed ideas on what it can and can't do, which may lead to you limiting yourself or the advice having an otherwise negative effect on your playing (the last person I'd go to for advice about bass teechnique/ writing basslines would be a guitarist; many of those who I've met pretty much want it following the guitar or doing a basic 'bom-bom-bom-bom-bom', which is pretty limiting). Seems like a good idea, but very reliant on circumstances IMO.

[Pete Academy]

I've always maintained that a bass player needs to listen to the bass drum. However, our drummer told me to listen to the hi-hat instead. Best advice ever, and it really works if you want to lock into the groove. Try it and see.